Low Power WHS

[Fox McCloud]

Hi guys,

I'm planning on making a WHS but I need some advice.

In order to be able to do this (the only way the wife will let me) us if it is as low power as possible, to not impact the bills. In order for me to start splashing out money to build another computer that will be on 24/7, she has declared that be as energy efficient as possible. I said sure, why not!

I was originally going to make it from an Atom, with like 2GB RAM and 2 Hitatchi 1TB HDDS. I read somewhere that the current Hitatchi drives are greener than WD's Green HDDS (is this true?)

However, I wouldnt mind having some expandability with the server, and a real motherboard would be a bit better over the closed Atom types.

I want Gigabit ethernet and like 4-6 SATA ports for future use.

I was thinking on building it around the Sempron 140, which im guessing is AMDs lowest powered CPU. I figure undervolt and underclock it to its bare minimum and it would use alot less power while still being more more powerful than the Atom.

So I just need to team the Sempron up with a Motherboard.
Any advice on the type? Was thinking a 785G board. Although, wouldnt an IGP-less board use less power? And since it is a WHS it wont be conecting to a monitor anyway, will be remote accessed.

So in retrospect:

Atom + 945/ION + Case + 2GB RAM + 2x1TB HDD

or

Sempron + 740/770/780/785/790GX/FX + Case + 2GB RAM + 2x1TB HDD

Advise on case would be great too! Going to need a nice efficient PSU as well. Going to have to do more research.

 

[LeonarD26]

I put this build together a few months ago:

GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor
Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

I recently added a second 1TB EcoGreen HD from Samsung.

This build has been rock solid. This 740g board has 6 SATA ports and built in gig ethernet. $55 at newegg...

The cpu i got was the most efficient dual core cpu at the time for the price. I decided on a low power dual core, just to give it enough horsepower. You can totally get away with single core as WHS doesn't need much, but i was hoping to get some long life out of this server, and the dual core cpu was dirt cheap.

I have this in a generic Antec case with an Earthwatts 430W PSU.

Good luck!

 

[yh125d]

http://ncixus.com/products/?sk...W.007&manufacture=Acer

4 hot swap bays, atom for low power, small footprint case, $356 and comes with a 1TB drive and a 500GB drive. Sell the 500 on fs/ft/ebay and buy a couple more 1TB

 

[armstrda]

yeah, you can't beat that Acer system they have now. Great form factor with the Hotswap bays and Atom. At that price, I challenge someone to build similar for less.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: armstrda
yeah, you can't beat that Acer system they have now. Great form factor with the Hotswap bays and Atom. At that price, I challenge someone to build similar for less.

I'll try

$30 DVD burner
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162044/l]
<b"><b"><b">$25 case with PSU</a>
$37 2.7ghz Sempron
$80 1TB hard drive
$26 2gb memory
$45 AM2+ motherboard with video

Total cost: $243 if you supply your own OS (Vista Business is perfect for this)
If you want a more crippled OS, you can buy Windows Home Server for $95, bringing the cost up to $338

I think my system is better. Sempron and Celeron are literally twice as fast as Atom. This monster will run a game server if you want. Anandtech Bench, sysmark overall
1.6ghz Atom: 41
the fastest sempron tested is 2.3ghz (400mhz slower than the one I picked) and it gets a score of 74, almost twice as fast. If a system says it comes with an Atom, don't even bother.

 

[armstrda]

I think you're missing the point here. You didn't build a WHS that is in a small form factor with 4 hotswappable HDD bays.

 

[ShawnD1]

I did one better, mine has 7 drive bays. I can't have a decent home server with redundancy if it only has 4 drive slots.

 

[Fox McCloud]

What will the idle power consumption of a Sempron based system be? Either at standard clock or underclock.
Will it be comparable to a standard atom?

Also is ION more efficient than standard 945 ?
The 945 chipset is old and outdated and consumes more than the atom itself. So how does the ION compare, being a chipset and higher powered IGP?

I would consider the Atom if it was like 50% more efficient, but if its just going to be like 10% or something may as well go with the Sempron since upgradablity and power would out weigh the negative efficiency.

Ta

 

[alyarb]

the sempron uses many times more power, but it is also many times faster. do not get an ION chipset for a server. that will just consume more power and not be faster at all.

 

[ShawnD1]

One thing I forgot to include is that most cheap motherboards only have 100mb ethernet. To get the real gigabit server experience, you'll need to buy an extra card for $10. Of course this only applies if you already own a gigabit router. If you're still using a crappy Linksys you found in a dumpster, it probably will not support gigabit LAN.

The power difference between the Atom and Sempron is fairly small. Atom's rated TDP is 12W while the Sempron is rated for 45W. Power consumption will be almost the same if you underclock and undervolt the Sempron to match the performance of the Atom.

A question that should really be asked by now is why can't you use one of your existing computers as a server?. It's a valid question. Between you, your wife, the kids, other people living in the house, don't you have even 1 low end computer that could be acting as the server? My house has several computers that could be acting as file servers. The computers I build always use a mid-tower with at least 6 hard drive slots (perfect for a home server), most use integrated graphics, and most have gigabit ethernet. Even a crappy Dell from 5 years ago can make a great server if you put it in a large case and add a gigabit ethernet card.

 

[armstrda]

actually atom is 4W - 8W for the dual core 330 - but this system uses the single core 230. And this system uses the 945GC for a total system TDP of 29.5W. That's less than your process alone. Plus you get small form factor, HS HDD bays, GB Eth, and very quiet system.

 

[ShawnD1]

Why is small form a good thing? The case limits him to 4 drives. On newegg you can find a case for $25 that includes a PSU and it has 9 drive bays. link. With 9 drive bays, no hard drive would go unused. When the wife gets a new computer, the old drive goes into the server. Kids get a new computer, old drive goes into the server. You can't reuse your old drives if you only have 4 slots. OP will find himself throwing drives in the garbage and needing to buy new ones simply because he is limited by the number of slots. Since I have a huge number of hard drive slots in all of my computers, I'm still using drives from 8 years ago; my games are installed on a 4-drive span.

I also don't see how hot swapping is useful. In the best case scenario, you don't need to wait the 5 minutes for your computer to reboot. In the worst case scenario, you forget to take the drive offline in software before removing it and your data is corrupted.

 

[yh125d]

Small = less space taken = more room for other stuff = easier to hide? Noones saying small is the way to go all the time but it has benefits :\

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162044/l]
<b"><b"><b"><b">$25 case with PSU</a>

Seriously? I would not use that PSU. It is likely very inefficient and of terrible quality.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162044/l]
<b"><b"><b"><b"><b">$25 case with PSU</a>

Seriously? I would not use that PSU. It is likely very inefficient and of terrible quality.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you implying that OEM computers like Dell and HP come with active power factor correction, high quality capacitors, and high efficiency?

Small = less space taken = more room for other stuff = easier to hide? Noones saying small is the way to go all the time but it has benefits

If you're putting the computer in an area so small that a mini ITX will fit but an ATX mid tower will not, you can be very certain that the system is going to overheat. Hard drives make a lot more heat than one would expect, they are only rated for 55-60C, and they die very fast when they are run outside of the recommended operating temperature. You wouldn't let your CPU run at 70C, so why would you let your hard drives run hot? If you've ever walked into a good server room, you probably noticed that the room was cold as hell because the room is more heavily ventilated than any other room in the building. A few years back I was working as a chemist at a drug company and I swear the server room had better ventilation than the lab.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162044/l]
<b"><b"><b"><b"><b"><b">$25 case with PSU</a>

Seriously? I would not use that PSU. It is likely very inefficient and of terrible quality.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you implying that OEM computers like Dell and HP come with active power factor correction, high quality capacitors, and high efficiency?

Small = less space taken = more room for other stuff = easier to hide? Noones saying small is the way to go all the time but it has benefits

If you're putting the computer in an area so small that a mini ITX will fit but an ATX mid tower will not, you can be very certain that the system is going to overheat. Hard drives make a lot more heat than one would expect, they are only rated for 55-60C, and they die very fast when they are run outside of the recommended operating temperature. You wouldn't let your CPU run at 70C, so why would you let your hard drives run hot? If you've ever walked into a good server room, you probably noticed that the room was cold as hell because the room is more heavily ventilated than any other room in the building. A few years back I was working as a chemist at a drug company and I swear the server room had better ventilation than the lab.

Dell uses Delta PSU's, which are not quite like Seasonic built Corsair units, but they are good quality yes and underrated on power.




It's an atom... like ~5w of heat or less. People will most often put "green" drives in which run noticeably cooler. Even populated with 4 drives temps should be fine. Maybe a tad warmer than a full size case but definitely nothing to worry about. Definitely far under the temp threshold for HDs

 

[joutlaw]

I struggled with a build when I was considering a WHS as well. I'm not sold on the atom especially for a lot of the converting the plugins will do for WHS. I ended up going with a HP ex485. I got it for $500 with a 750GB drive and a 1TB hitachi drive. I added 2 Samsung 1.5TB drives and all 4 slots are full. I'm not remotely close to filling it up at this point. The case was a major selling point to me. 4 Hotswappable drives... WHS makes it easy to move data from one drive to another as long as it isn't the OS drive.

The case is tiny too, but the fan is a little on the whiney side. People have also sucessfully upgraded the processors on these boxes where that atom will most likely be soldered in.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Thanks for the replies.
I dont have a spare computer around sadly, i got rid of my last few bits not long ago. In hindsight I shouldve kept em. But I bet they wouldnt be as efficient as getting something new.

The gigabit internet is a must like. So that rules out the atom anyway, unless I get an add-in NIC.

Just need a suitable server looking case.

Do any cases have hot swappable drives, or is that only for the OEM WHS ?

 

[armstrda]

Why does that rule out the Atom? The Acer has Atom + GbE. Also, if you don't need 4 drives, you could build one off the MSI nettop100 that supports 2 SATA devices with the dual core Atom 330 with GbE.

If you really want a build it your self, you can still go with Atom with this board as it has GbE as well - it also uses the 945GSE chipset that is only 7.5W instead of the 20+ of the 945GC for a total system TDP of 11.5W. Intel® Desktop Board D945GSEJT

http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-...T-Mini-ITX-Motherboard

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Fox McCloud
Do any cases have hot swappable drives, or is that only for the OEM WHS ?

Norco 4020. 4U, rack-mount, 20 hotswappable drive bays (SATA).

 

[armstrda]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: Fox McCloud
Do any cases have hot swappable drives, or is that only for the OEM WHS ?

Norco 4020. 4U, rack-mount, 20 hotswappable drive bays (SATA).

While that is pretty ridiculous for WHS, you could look at some of the Chenbro cases, but they're not cheap!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: armstrda
While that is pretty ridiculous for WHS, you could look at some of the Chenbro cases, but they're not cheap!

For 4 drive bays, it would just be cheaper to buy the $350 Acer complete system than the $200+ Chenbro case and all the parts plus WHS OS. Heck, good luck finding an Atom ITX mobo with 4 SATA ports. You'd probably have to do a socket AM2/775 board and use a low voltage CPU. Much better performance (helpful for stuff beyond pure file serving) but higher cost and power draw.

 

[armstrda]

That's what I've been saying through this whole thread. But every time the OP asks another question, I provide him other solutions as it seems he's leaning away from the Acer

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Zap
Heck, good luck finding an Atom ITX mobo with 4 SATA ports. You'd probably have to do a socket AM2/775 board and use a low voltage CPU. Much better performance (helpful for stuff beyond pure file serving) but higher cost and power draw.

Newegg has lots of ITX boards and some of them are pretty good.
ITX Celeron 220 - $75 and it supports 4gb memory
ITX Atom 330 - $80
ITX Nvidia Ion platform - $170

For $42, you can get a tiny case with 6 drive slots. Not bad!

The ITX boards only have 2 sata slots so you would need to get a PCI card. They range in cost, but you can get 4 SATA slots for $30. link.

 

[armstrda]

OK, so now you've spent $150, plus you still need to buy a 1TB drive and the bonus 500GB drive and RAM. So let's say 85 for the 1TB and 60 for the 500GB, then $15 for the 2GB DIMM. So now we're up to $310. Now you have to buy the OS for $90. So you don't get hot swap, you have a bigger case, and you've spent more than the Acer solution.