LULZ! MSNBC anchor accidentally outs Tim Cook on the air

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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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Yeah, thats pretty much the definition of outing. What would you call "outing" apart from a public proclamation that you were gay?
What? So if someone who doesn't know you incorrectly calls you "openly gay" when you're not, you've been "outed?"


Think about it.

"Outing" would be if someone surreptitiously captured and released photos or video of Tim giving affection to another man (like kissing, holding hands, or petting). Or if a private conversation was recorded and released publicly in which Tim says that he's gay or in a sexual relationship with another man. THAT would be "outing" him.

As it currently is, he's not "out" and we can't even know if he's gay (though he most likely is). That talker's comment is sourced from...what? Nothing. Basically, your definition means that practically everyone in this thread "outed" him.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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What? So if someone who doesn't know you incorrectly calls you "openly gay" when you're not, you've been "outed?"


Think about it.

"Outing" would be if someone surreptitiously captured and released photos or video of Tim giving affection to another man (like kissing, holding hands, or petting). Or if a private conversation was recorded and released publicly in which Tim says that he's gay or in a sexual relationship with another man. THAT would be "outing" him.

As it currently is, he's not "out" and we can't even know if he's gay (though he most likely is). That talker's comment is sourced from...what? Nothing. Basically, your definition means that practically everyone in this thread "outed" him.

Lol.

As it currently is, he's not "out" and we can't even know if he's gay (though he most likely is)

Right.

Being publicly outed as gay on TV when you haven't announced it yourself is the definition of being outed.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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Lol.



Right.

Being publicly outed as gay on TV when you haven't announced it yourself is the definition of being outed.

You're missing some logic here. I could claim that you are openly gay with no information whatsoever. Does that mean I've "outed" you from your closet? No. I can't prove if you're in the closet or even gay.

How can I possibly "out" someone without revealing some kind of new information? I can't.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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You're missing some logic here. I could claim that you are openly gay with no information whatsoever. Does that mean I've "outed" you from your closet? No. I can't prove if you're in the closet or even gay.

Yes, it puts the onus on me to deny or admit that I'm gay when its none of your business.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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I didnt read the entire speech but the bit quoted...


"Since these early days, I have seen and have experienced many types of discrimination and all of them were rooted in the fear of people that were different than the majority."
...isn't exactly a coming out ceremony.

That quote can be taken to mean that he witnessed the civil rights movement. He is from Alabama, which was ground zero for the civil rights movement. He deliberately stated it in a way that can be applied to LGBT rights because he openly supports LGBT rights.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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That quote can be taken to mean that he witnessed the civil rights movement. He is from Alabama, which was ground zero for the civil rights movement. He deliberately stated it in a way that can be applied to LGBT rights because he openly supports LGBT rights.

Yeah, I support LGBT rights as well, should people announce on TV that I'm gay?

Really, you're going to argue that that statement from him is a public announcement about his sexuality?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
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Yes, it puts the onus on me to deny or admit that I'm gay when its none of your business.

LOL. That's not "outed," FFS.

- We don't know anything about Tim Cook's sexuality or personal relationships (with men or women)

- We know that Tim Cook openly supports LGBT rights

- Most people that have thought about it believe he's probably gay, but still "in the closet" when it comes to public matters

- Some guy mistakenly thought Tim Cook was open (out of the closet) in a conversation

- The guy was WRONG

You simply can't "out" someone's secrets without revealing something that was not previously known to the public. How can you not understand that?



I remember when Steve Jobs was presenting the iPhone 4 and he was so thin I thought he was close to death. Months later, Geraldo was on a TV program discussing an actor that was dying of cancer. He said something like: "Don't forget Steve Jobs. He had pancreatic cancer and he beat this! There's still hope!" It stuck with me because it was so stupid: 1) The name is pronounced "Jobbs," not "Jobes" / "Joe-bs." 2) The public was well aware that Steve J had been dying of cancer for years and there had been NO new information about the matter (as a businessman, Steve J didn't want his imminent death to impact the company). Every recent appearance seemed to confirm that he was not recovering.

Talkers on the news sometimes make incorrect assumptions. An incorrect assumption cannot "out" someone. To "out" someone, you must reveal a secret that was not known publicly.

[edit]
...like the photo that showed Steve Jobs could no longer stand on his own.
 
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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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So announcing it would be outing him then?

Seriously, how could it not be outing him if he hasn't announced it himself?

Hundreds of stories before this and years before this did the "outing" I think of outing as the first.

OTOH - If you take position that news can't out him and only he can then MSNBC didn't out him either.

Either way title of thread is inaccurate which was my initial point.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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LOL. That's not "outed," FFS.

Really? Publicly announcing that someone is gay isn't outing someone as gay?

What exactly is your criteria for outing someone then?

- We don't know anything about Tim Cook's sexuality or personal relationships (with men or women)

- We know that Tim Cook openly supports LGBT rights

- Most people that have thought about it believe he's probably gay, but still "in the closet" when it comes to public matters

- Some guy mistakenly thought Tim Cook was open (out of the closet) in a conversation

- The guy was WRONG

You simply can't "out" someone's secrets without revealing something that was not previously known to the public. How can you not understand that?

Not sure if serious or extremely sheltered.

Right. Imagine that you are in fact gay. Imagine that you haven't told anyone and you're not exactly comfortable with announcing it to the world.

Now you go to a bar with a bunch of mates.

And during the evening one of them says "But you're gay how do you feel about this?"

Thats not going to be an awkward situation for you?


Talkers on the news sometimes make incorrect assumptions. An incorrect assumption cannot "out" someone. To "out" someone, you must reveal a secret that was not known publicly.

Dont be ridiculous. Theres no burden of proof to out someone. If someone is gay and you announce it you've outed them. You've chucked a burden on them that they didnt ask for.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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Really? Publicly announcing that someone is gay isn't outing someone as gay?
NO! You simply cannot make an "announcement" without information to be announced. Got it?

Seriously. You must be trolling. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! You've got me going. Successful troll is successful.

What exactly is your criteria for outing someone then?
I've listed the criteria. You have to announce information publicly that was not previously available to the public. Remember when I said that? I have memory problems myself, but you definitely seem to be having serious issues with memory or comprehension...or you're a successful troll.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
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NO! You simply cannot make an "announcement" without information to be announced. Got it?

Seriously. You must be trolling. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! You've got me going. Successful troll is successful.


I've listed the criteria. You have to announce information publicly that was not previously available to the public. Remember when I said that? I have memory problems myself, but you definitely seem to be having serious issues with memory or comprehension...or you're a successful troll.

To be fair, Tim Cook has never publicly announced he is gay. He does support a lot of gay rights organizations however.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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So how do we find out if its an incorrect assumption or not?

Oh yeah...

The guy that didn't want to comment on his sexuality now has to comment on it.

Do you understand that the person in question is not "outed" until the person in question says he's gay or someone else releases information to prove he is?

Gah!
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
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To be fair, Tim Cook has never publicly announced he is gay. He does support a lot of gay rights organizations however.

Yup. So unless there's new proof that he's gay, or he says so himself, he's not "outed." We're all pretty sure he is gay because we read between the lines. That was already the case before some guy on TV made an incorrect assumption.

[edit]
I believe he's not trying to hide it, but he deliberately avoids saying it outright for business reasons. This is analogous to Jobs' secrecy about his diminishing health.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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NO! You simply cannot make an "announcement" without information to be announced. Got it?

So what happened in that clip in the OP?

Pretty sure that that guy did in fact make an announcement without any information.

Unless the information was just that "Oh look, Tim Cook is gay." Which is outing Tim Cook.

How the hell can you not see this?



Seriously. You must be trolling. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! You've got me going. Successful troll is successful.

No, you're either autistic or being deliberately bloody minded. Theres no way that you think that being outed involves some dossier of evidence.

I've listed the criteria. You have to announce information publicly that was not previously available to the public. Remember when I said that? I have memory problems myself, but you definitely seem to be having serious issues with memory or comprehension...or you're a successful troll.

Thats cute, but you dont actually get to define how things work. I can only assume that youve never watched any mass media or even talked to strangers if that's your definition of outing someone.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,977
8,695
136
Do you understand that the person in question is not "outed" until the person in question says he's gay or someone else releases information to prove he is?

Gah!


Oh FFS!

Outing someone isn't proving that they are gay, its announcing that they are gay before they do.
 
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