Question m.2 2280 SATA SSD - buy now?

[Jeff H]

I'm looking to purchase a Crucial MX500 m.2 2280 SATA SSD for my HP Pavilion 15 laptop. All the new SSD m.2 2280 drives I see coming out are NVMe, not SATA. Should I be purchasing the Crucial drive now, even though I'm not in a hurry to install? Are SATA SSD's going to disappear over the short term? Or, do you expect the Crucial MX500 will hang around for a year or two?

TIA,

Jeff

 

[VirtualLarry]

I see SATA M.2 sales declining, but not entirely going away. There will probably always be a brand-name vendor making SATA M.2 SSDs, at least for the next 5 or so years, I'd guess. Beyond that, who knows? Most M.2 SSDs these days, at least the ones that are "sexy", are all PCI-E NVMe, and pushing crazy sequential speeds, which barely matter in the real world for most people. But they have "big numbers" when benchmarked. (Why else did Samsung enable RAPID mode by default for SATA 2.5" SSDs?)

So, yeah, SATA M.2 has pretty much all of the disadvantages of SATA, while taking up a precious M.2 socket. Problem is, some laptops sold in the past, and probably today, have SATA M.2 sockets, that aren't also PCI-E compatible, so there will still be a market for SATA M.2, I feel. At least, in the near term.

Edit: There is also generally a cost advantage for larger M.2 SSDs, between SATA and PCI-E NVMe, although with the advent of cheaper controllers, that difference is eroding. For those people with desktop motherboards, with MULTIPLE M.2 sockets, a smaller PCI-E NVMe M.2 drive for OS, and then a larger, cheaper, SATA M.2 drive for bulk storage, also makes a lot of sense.

Although, in five years, they will probably all be QLC 3D NAND, 128 Layer, but who cares, right, it's just SATA6G transfer rates anyways.

The real future, is "3DXpoint NVDIMMs". Slotted in like DRAM, using DRAM-controller protocols, but persistent like NAND flash in SSDs. No more "loading" of apps, everything on the PC is "instant on".

How long that tech takes to trickle down to consumer PCs and laptops, remains to be seen. The OS (Windows and Linux and whatnot), will have to be modified, too, for that "instant on" paradigm.

Does your current laptop, have a HDD or an SSD? If it has a HDD, then don't wait, get an SSD slapped in there ASAP. Although, if you want to wait, NAND is in oversupply right now, and prices are predicted to drop by 50% (per bit, which is another way of saying, moving to QLC soon) in 2019.

 

[UsandThem]

Like Larry stated, there will be M.2 SATA drives available for a while. No need to run out buy one this second if you don't need it now.

I think the larger companies like Samsung, Intel, and Crucial won't be releasing any new "performance" models in SATA going forward, as the available SATA speed is all but tapped out this point by drives like the 860 EVO / PRO and the MX500. I think their main focus is going to be some cheaper QLC drives in SATA. That said, smaller companies like Adata and Muskin should continue to offer a wide range of SATA drives.

But if you don't have a SSD in there now, for the love of all that is holy, get one in there ASAP and enjoy the bliss they bring compared to those old, slow spinners. You can get a 500 GB MX500 for around $65 (or lower on sale).

 

[Jeff H]

VirtualLarry & UsandThem,

Thanks for your bounce backs. My HP Pavilion 15 has an m.2 2280 SATA slot, not NVMe. Crucial indicates the MX500 is compatible. Current drive is a 1TB 5400RPM. Thus, both your admonitions to upgrade the drive are spot on. I'm not sure I want to go through the process of pryig this laptop open. For $59 I can have a local shop open it and install the drive.

I'm no where near maxing out the current HD. I'll keep watching Crucial's pricing (currently $134 for 1TB MX500).

Jeff

 

[UsandThem]

VirtualLarry & UsandThem,

Thanks for your bounce backs. My HP Pavilion 15 has an m.2 2280 SATA slot, not NVMe. Crucial indicates the MX500 is compatible. Current drive is a 1TB 5400RPM. Thus, both your admonitions to upgrade the drive are spot on. I'm not sure I want to go through the process of pryig this laptop open. For $59 I can have a local shop open it and install the drive.

I'm no where near maxing out the current HD. I'll keep watching Crucial's pricing (currently $134 for 1TB MX500).

Jeff

You likely can leave your spinner in there for programs and games, and install the OS on a smaller M.2 SATA drive like the 500GB version of the MX500.

 

[aleader]

The Crucial 500GB dropped in price today again to $58USD/$79CDN. How much lower will it go or is now the time to buy? Also, to install the operating system on this drive (and keep the HDD), do you need to wipe and/or disconnect the HDD first so the laptop picks up the SSD when you restart to install Windows (from a USB)? I've never done it before on a laptop. Do you then just re-activate through your Windows account?

 

[UsandThem]

The Crucial 500GB dropped in price today again to $58USD/$79CDN. How much lower will it go or is now the time to buy? Also, to install the operating system on this drive (and keep the HDD), do you need to wipe and/or disconnect the HDD first so the laptop picks up the SSD when you restart to install Windows (from a USB)? I've never done it before on a laptop. Do you then just re-activate through your Windows account?

I'd be surprised if the smaller capacity drives get much lower in price.

Most people clone the drive with the included cloning software, and then use something like this to wipe the old drive (it's what I use when doing what you want to do): https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJZJI84/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Otherwise, you can clone it, go into the BIOS to boot from the M.2 drive, and then format the old drive. However, I have seen several people get stuck with this method as the Windows boot loader will be on both drives, and can cause issues. Also, Windows should stay activated when simply adding a SSD, so there shouldn't be a need to reactivate Windows.

 

[aleader]

Thanks for the info. I think I'd like to wipe the whole thing and do a clean Windows install. My laptop is a Dell G3 and I tried to remove the bloatware, but I'm not sure if it's all out. It's got a 1TB Hybrid HDD. So to do this, just remove the drive and pop in the SSD? Do I need to format the SSD first on another system?

 

[UsandThem]

Thanks for the info. I think I'd like to wipe the whole thing and do a clean Windows install. My laptop is a Dell G3 and I tried to remove the bloatware, but I'm not sure if it's all out. It's got a 1TB Hybrid HDD. So to do this, just remove the drive and pop in the SSD? Do I need to format the SSD first on another system?

You should be able to format it using a bootable Windows 10 USB or disc. Just make sure your BIOS setting is set to UEFI mode (which will format the drive as GPT) unless you need legacy mode (CSM) enabled for whatever reason.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/i...-nvme-uefi-boot-normal-boot-csm-confused.html

 

[aleader]

Price is back up for now anyways, so I'll be waiting. No panic. I did go in and check the BIOS and it is set to UEFI by default. There were also a few of the 'legacy' settings you mentioned (all were off). Thanks for that link, great info there! Once the price comes down I'll pop one in and see how it goes.

 

[arandomguy]

Crucial m2 MX500 500gb is $55 now at Newegg.com and a few dollars cheaper than the also on sale 2.5inch version. They probably over judged m2 demand.

But I'm assuming you mean the Amazon.ca deal in Canada earlier? It was actually a good time to buy in the short run if you combined it with the current 8% cash back via ebates, it would've made the effective price roughly $75 CAD.

NAND prices however still have a lot of pressure downwards but there is a lower limit as other things start being factored in. The floor is likely going to be where the 250GB version is at roughly $60-$65 CAD by end of 2019.

 

[aleader]

Crucial m2 MX500 500gb is $55 now at Newegg.com and a few dollars cheaper than the also on sale 2.5inch version. They probably over judged m2 demand.

But I'm assuming you mean the Amazon.ca deal in Canada earlier? It was actually a good time to buy in the short run if you combined it with the current 8% cash back via ebates, it would've made the effective price roughly $75 CAD.

NAND prices however still have a lot of pressure downwards but there is a lower limit as other things start being factored in. The floor is likely going to be where the 250GB version is at roughly $60-$65 CAD by end of 2019.

I was looking at Newegg.ca. The deal ended but now it's back. I usually buy from Newegg as the price is the same as Amazon but Newegg doesn't charge PST, which saves me 6%. It's likely as cheap as it's going to get in the short run. I won't feel too bad if it drops $10 in the next 6 months. What I want to avoid is a price drop the day after I buy it

I've read a lot about heat issues with this M2 drive. I'm guessing it would be amplified in a laptop. Anybody experience that?

 

[aleader]

Seems this 'deal' is probably the new regular price. Still $79.99...but 'ending in 2 days!' over and over again. My only concern is that they will sell out completely, but they must have a lot of stock or they wouldn't be pushing this particular model so hard, no?

 

[Jeff H]

Well guys, I went ahead and purchased the Crucial MX500 m.2 2280 SATA, 1TB. I've not pried open a laptop, and don't want to first do that on my current unit, so I'm going to have a local shop do the install. They suggested I pull the HDD, which makes sense to me, since I don't need the space. I'm hoping that removing the HDD will improve battery life.

This shop also suggested that rather than image over the HDD to the SSD, that we do a clean install of Win10. I don't have a lot of programs or data on this machine, so doing a clean install seems to make good sense. I've always got the HDD should I wish to do the imaging route.

Jeff

 

[aleader]

Well guys, I went ahead and purchased the Crucial MX500 m.2 2280 SATA, 1TB. I've not pried open a laptop, and don't want to first do that on my current unit, so I'm going to have a local shop do the install. They suggested I pull the HDD, which makes sense to me, since I don't need the space. I'm hoping that removing the HDD will improve battery life.

This shop also suggested that rather than image over the HDD to the SSD, that we do a clean install of Win10. I don't have a lot of programs or data on this machine, so doing a clean install seems to make good sense. I've always got the HDD should I wish to do the imaging route.

Jeff

I'd be interested to know if you experience any throttling (from heat) with it in your laptop (when playing games).

 

[UsandThem]

I'd be interested to know if you experience any throttling (from heat) with it in your laptop (when playing games).

There shouldn't be any throttling from a SATA SSD (M.2 or 2.5" style).

That's generally only a NVMe issue.

 

[aleader]

There shouldn't be any throttling from a SATA SSD (M.2 or 2.5" style).

That's generally only a NVMe issue.

According to the tests done in a review at theSSDReview it is an issue, but maybe not under real-world conditions?:

"Finally, taking a look at how it performs under HDTune’s full write test, we can see that unlike the 1TB 2.5″ model we tested before, the MX500 M.2 model isn’t able to deliver a constant 500MB/s write speed across the capacity. Initially, we thought this was due to the dynamic cache filling, but after taking a look at the controller temperature in CDI, we saw that it was around 70-80°C. Thus, this performance is the result of thermal throttling that kicks in at 70°C."

http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/crucial-mx500-m-2-sata-ssd-review-500gb/6/

I noticed when installing one in my son's friend's desktop M2 slot about 7 months ago that it got very hot to the touch after only a few minutes of use (just running the computer to test the new build, no testing or games), which surprised me as my experience with my own 2.5 drives is that they run very cool.

 

[nOOky]

Well guys, I went ahead and purchased the Crucial MX500 m.2 2280 SATA, 1TB. I've not pried open a laptop, and don't want to first do that on my current unit, so I'm going to have a local shop do the install. They suggested I pull the HDD, which makes sense to me, since I don't need the space. I'm hoping that removing the HDD will improve battery life.

This shop also suggested that rather than image over the HDD to the SSD, that we do a clean install of Win10. I don't have a lot of programs or data on this machine, so doing a clean install seems to make good sense. I've always got the HDD should I wish to do the imaging route.

Jeff

Opening the laptop and installing the new SSD and installing Windows is so easy I suggest you try yourself. You can't really screw things up, and if you do they can fix it anyway. After all the trouble you went to save a few bucks, your local shop will eat up any savings you had and then some. At least find a friend who's computer savvy maybe? I mean it's literally a few screws probably...

 

[aleader]

Yah, I popped the back off my laptop to check it out and it's right there to install. Was very easy on a desktop, just be sure the drive sits level. It didn't come with a screw and I'd never done it before, but the motherboard had one (and a support screw to hold it level).

 

[UsandThem]

According to the tests done in a review at theSSDReview it is an issue, but maybe not under real-world conditions?:

"Finally, taking a look at how it performs under HDTune’s full write test, we can see that unlike the 1TB 2.5″ model we tested before, the MX500 M.2 model isn’t able to deliver a constant 500MB/s write speed across the capacity. Initially, we thought this was due to the dynamic cache filling, but after taking a look at the controller temperature in CDI, we saw that it was around 70-80°C. Thus, this performance is the result of thermal throttling that kicks in at 70°C."

http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/crucial-mx500-m-2-sata-ssd-review-500gb/6/

I noticed when installing one in my son's friend's desktop M2 slot about 7 months ago that it got very hot to the touch after only a few minutes of use (just running the computer to test the new build, no testing or games), which surprised me as my experience with my own 2.5 drives is that they run very cool.

That temp was done in a synthetic test writing across the entire 500 GB drive. Much like Unigine "power virus" benchmark utilities which force systems to use more power than they ever would in normal usage, that's not something that users will encounter in a "real world" scenario.

They are designed to fully work as long as they are under 70c, 99.999% of users would never have their drives ever go past 55c. Of course the drives will feel warm too the touch while on, as 55c is 131 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[aleader]

That temp was done in a synthetic test writing across the entire 500 GB drive. Much like Unigine "power virus" benchmark utilities which force systems to use more power than they ever would in normal usage, that's not something that users will encounter in a "real world" scenario.

They are designed to fully work as long as they are under 70c, 99.999% of users would never have their drives ever go past 55c. Of course the drives will feel warm too the touch while on, as 55c is 131 degrees Fahrenheit.

True, but I'd still like to see some reviews where it's tested in a cramped laptop space with the GPU under load while gaming. I know my laptop gets pretty warm when I play Frostpunk on ultra settings, and moving from 55C to 70C doesn't take much. I don't know that the throttling would even affect gameplay unless the SSD is being accessed, but it would be nice to see some testing. I know I've read forum posts where people are concerned with their laptop M2 drive hitting 80C+.

 

[Jeff H]

UPDATE: I wimped out (not wanting to cosmetically damage my laptop shell) and had a local shop physically install the drive, and set up a clean Win 10. Wow, what a difference. Win 10 boot and shut down times are a fraction of before. Everything is snappier, and battery life is significantly longer that under the 1TB HDD.

I'm pleased enough with the switch from HDD to SSD that I'm going to do the same to my current desktop. I'll be getting a Crucial MX500 SATAIII 1TB. I currently have a Win 10 Pro install on this system, and will clone it over to the SSD.

 

[UsandThem]

Win 10 boot and shut down times are a fraction of before. Everything is snappier, and battery life is significantly longer that under the 1TB HDD.

Welcome to the "I will never again be able to tolerate using a PC with the OS installed on a HDD club!"

 

[Jeff H]

Well guys, here's another update:

The 1TB MX500 crapped out on me. We were up at the cabin, and went out for a boat ride. Came back to find a black screen, with the words "missing operating system. Please install OS."

Could not initialize the drive, so took it back to the shop that installed it for me. John pulled the drive, and put it in another system. Same result as in my machine; the drive is caput. Did a warranty return/replace with Crucial, and picked up a 500GB MX500 for the interim. The same shop installed the 500GB, and did a clean install of Win10, for no charge.

So far the 500GB drive is performing on a par with the 1TB that died. John at the shop said it's rare for an SSD to die, but not unheard of. He said should the 500GB also die (again, highly unlikely) it could be a motherboard/socket issue w/ my laptop. I guess time will tell.

I did pick up a 2.5" MX500 1TB for my home desktop, after seeing the performance gain in my laptop. I did a clean Win10 Pro install on it, and will get around to making that install my day to day system later this summer.

 

[thor23]

Hopefully just bad luck, though I believe they're much more likely to die in a laptop due to the higher operating temps, my BX500 240Gb drives seem to thermally throttle sometimes even in my desktop(maybe share similar controllers?).
I would at least put a thermal heatpad on the drive and maybe even small heatsink(though i've been too lazy to do that for my own drives yet)