M1 Garand vs Mosin Nagant

[jlee]

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I thought the 7.62 mosin was way more common than 30-06 M1 ammo

It shoots 7.62x54R, which is slightly different than the other more common forms of 7.62. Also more expensive to buy. Although ammoman has it for some decent prices.

Surplus is (was?) available cheap - I paid ~$165 shipped for 880 rounds about 2 years ago.

 

[TonyG]

I have a mosin nagant M44 and love to take it out occasionally, and yes you can still find cheap ammo for it. I have also shot a M1 Garand a few times, and would love to have one, just haven't shelled out the money for one yet...
I would also suggest an ak-47, though ammo prices are currently insane for it, 1k of 7.62x39 is currently going for around $300-$350, though hopefully it will come back down in a few months. If you enjoy building things, look into building an ak-47. There are several different methods you can use to build them, screws being one easy way, though the purist will tell you only rivets will work.
I have an underfolding ak-47, a chinese norinco bwk-92(ak) in 5.56x45 , and 6 more parts kit in the works, along with several other surplus rifles.

If you just want cheap to purchase and cheap to shoot, go for the mosin nagant, you won't regret it.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

Is the CMP the best way to go?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

Is the CMP the best way to go?

Yes. Expect a pretty good wait time though.

The majority of M1s out there are from the CMP. They are drawn down from the Army's supply and in issuable (at the time) condition. They come headspaced, but I check them anyway.

If you buy used, who knows what bubba did to it. Plus they are more expensive. You can get Scott Duff's book on the M1 and do some reading on what to look for, and find diamonds in the rough. Some folks don't know what they have. I got a type II lockbar rear sight on one. Paid $400 for the rifle, and the rear sight alone was worth $200 or so.

 

[BoberFett]

Do you really think 7.62x54 is going to be a common round when the zombies come? I love my 91/30 but all of the ammo is surplus shipped from the other side of the world. If you want something where ammo will be plentiful during the apocalypse, try 12ga.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Do you really think 7.62x54 is going to be a common round when the zombies come? I love my 91/30 but all of the ammo is surplus shipped from the other side of the world. If you want something where ammo will be plentiful during the apocalypse, try 12ga.

If you're buying it one 20 round box at a time that's going to be a problem...if you're buying by the case then it's much less of a problem.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

Is the CMP the best way to go?

thats what I hear, and as bruno said, expecta long wait.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Do you really think 7.62x54 is going to be a common round when the zombies come? I love my 91/30 but all of the ammo is surplus shipped from the other side of the world. If you want something where ammo will be plentiful during the apocalypse, try 12ga.

there is a lot of it already brought over though.

At two recent gun shows I was at 'Mosin Nagant Ammo' was plentiful.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
If you haven't held either one, they are both huge, heavy guns.

.30-06 is kinda common, but the Garand wasn't made to shoot what is available off the shelf.

In between those two price wise, you can pick up an SKS. Still heavy, but relatively plentiful ammo and easy to keep going. Pretty simple design.

You bring up an important point. The Garand can't use any 30-06 you can find. It has to be specific types or very bad things happen. I'd love to own one, but in a SHTF situation if I had to choose between a garand and a mosin, I'll take the mosin anyday. (actually have a mosin in the safe)
The mosin besides being used as a rifle, can be used as a club if you run out of ammo, it can be used as tent pole, and if you attach the bayonette it can be used as a pike to take down charging horses or people. You can then use it as a shishkabob to cook with.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Do you really think 7.62x54 is going to be a common round when the zombies come? I love my 91/30 but all of the ammo is surplus shipped from the other side of the world. If you want something where ammo will be plentiful during the apocalypse, try 12ga.

It's more common than you think. I buy it 440 rounds at a time for $100. Bar none it's the cheapest full power rifle round you can get.
And there is a metric shit ton of it in the states. I have 400+ rounds still, my buddy has about the same. You can't find it in most stores, but it's plentiful online. Also, if you're buying a gun for a SHTF situation, you need to be buying ammo as well.
I try to have at least 1,000 rounds for each caliber I have at any given time.
I stock 9mm, 40SW, .223/5.56, .22lr, .17hmr, 7.62x54r, 12G 00 buck, 12G slugs, and 12G #8.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

Is the CMP the best way to go?

thats what I hear, and as bruno said, expecta long wait.

I went by Perry and picked out mine from the rack. Got a nice Greek Standard Grade with a case of LC 30'06. It was a good day.

 

[Demo24]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I thought the 7.62 mosin was way more common than 30-06 M1 ammo

It shoots 7.62x54R, which is slightly different than the other more common forms of 7.62. Also more expensive to buy. Although ammoman has it for some decent prices.

More expensive? You can get 440 rounds of 7.62 NATO for less than $79? Where are you managing that? I sure as hell can't find that kind of a deal for 7.62 NATO.

The last time I bought 7.62x54R for my Mosin I paid $79 per 440 round ammo tin. The best I've been able to find for 7.62 NATO is about 4 times that much.

ZV

Back when we were looking for it last fall it was more difficult to find and once found more expensive. Perhaps it has changed since then, I haven't really kept an eye on it.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I thought the 7.62 mosin was way more common than 30-06 M1 ammo

It shoots 7.62x54R, which is slightly different than the other more common forms of 7.62. Also more expensive to buy. Although ammoman has it for some decent prices.

More expensive? You can get 440 rounds of 7.62 NATO for less than $79? Where are you managing that? I sure as hell can't find that kind of a deal for 7.62 NATO.

The last time I bought 7.62x54R for my Mosin I paid $79 per 440 round ammo tin. The best I've been able to find for 7.62 NATO is about 4 times that much.

ZV

Back when we were looking for it last fall it was more difficult to find and once found more expensive. Perhaps it has changed since then, I haven't really kept an eye on it.

It's remained relatively stable. The $79/440 was summer of last year when I mail-ordered through J&G Sales. I've since found similar deals locally (surplusammo.com has their B&M store near my house). Yes, Cabela's won't carry much in the way of 7.62x54R, but any place that sells surplus ammo should have a crap-ton of it. The Russians are still using it in the Dragunov (sp?) sniper rifles so there should be a ready supply even into the future.

ZV

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I thought the 7.62 mosin was way more common than 30-06 M1 ammo

It shoots 7.62x54R, which is slightly different than the other more common forms of 7.62. Also more expensive to buy. Although ammoman has it for some decent prices.

More expensive? You can get 440 rounds of 7.62 NATO for less than $79? Where are you managing that? I sure as hell can't find that kind of a deal for 7.62 NATO.

The last time I bought 7.62x54R for my Mosin I paid $79 per 440 round ammo tin. The best I've been able to find for 7.62 NATO is about 4 times that much.

ZV

Back when we were looking for it last fall it was more difficult to find and once found more expensive. Perhaps it has changed since then, I haven't really kept an eye on it.

It's remained relatively stable. The $79/440 was summer of last year when I mail-ordered through J&G Sales. I've since found similar deals locally (surplusammo.com has their B&M store near my house). Yes, Cabela's won't carry much in the way of 7.62x54R, but any place that sells surplus ammo should have a crap-ton of it. The Russians are still using it in the Dragunov (sp?) sniper rifles so there should be a ready supply even into the future.

ZV

Their belt fed LMGs (and those made in several other Eastern European nations) still use it too so it's definitely not going anywhere.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.
As for the M1, it's all about what your standard is. Yes, you can get a $600 M1, but it will not be matched, the wood will be beat up badly, the bore will be pitted slightly, etc.

Camp Perry requires a membership into a Civilian Marksmanship Club or organization to even purchase a rifle from them. Then, they are only open on certain days of the year, and if you don't buy in person, you have a long wait.

Luckily, I live in Ohio and have been to Camp Perry. I have bought an M1 and a 1903A3. CMP Purchased rifles should be excluded from normal gun show and gun store pricing, as it is a special case.

Walk into any gun store in America and you CANNOT find an M1 for $600.

Auctionarms.com
Gunbroker.com

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: Unheard
Go with the Mosin if you are wanting to get out cheap. LEAVE THE DAMN STOCK ALONE THOUGH. 7.62x54R is dirt cheap right now, and still available. If you want to step up....


AK-47 the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, gotta kill every mother fucker in the room, accept no substitutes.

I have an AK-47 and a Mosin. Both are super reliable, and ammo is still "cheap" (if you can find 7.62x39). 7.62 NATO is running around $100 for a SA Battle Pack, again, if you can find it.

7.62 NATO is almost at a buck per round, give or take a few pennies. It's getting more difficult to find brass and bullets for reloading them too (trust me, I'm having a difficult time finding decent deals on components). I'm having to toss some brass because I have reloaded and resized them so many times that the neck wall thickness is becoming an issue.

I would go with a M1 for semi-auto fun and common and powerful ammo. It's accurate (so is the Mosin, as well as powerful) and makes a damned good club if the zombies get REAL close.
I just prefer the feel of the M1.

30.06 cartridges are hugely popular and should be easy to find, although not as cheap as 7.62*54.
Stay away from Egyptian mil.surp ammo. Cheap, cheap cheap and dirty.
Greek, Israeli, SA, German, Spanish and Polish mil.surp are good ones to look into. Prvi Partizan, Sellier & Bellott, Lake City (as well as most American manufactured ammo) is really good.

If you go with Mosin, have the headspace checked and try to use NON-corrosive ammo (no mercury). Most of the older mil surplus ammo is corrosive and berdan primed.
If you ever get into reloading or have someone do it for you, try to get boxer primed ammo as the Berdan primed ammo is a bitch to reload.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm not debating the current price of 54r ammo. But unless you have a metric ass-ton of it stored up, when the shit does hit the fan you're going to run out quickly. Shit hitting the fan means the flow of goods stops and you need to rely solely on local resources. I don't know about your area, but 54r just isn't that plentiful locally. 12ga on the other hand is ubiquitous.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.
As for the M1, it's all about what your standard is. Yes, you can get a $600 M1, but it will not be matched, the wood will be beat up badly, the bore will be pitted slightly, etc.

Camp Perry requires a membership into a Civilian Marksmanship Club or organization to even purchase a rifle from them. Then, they are only open on certain days of the year, and if you don't buy in person, you have a long wait.

Luckily, I live in Ohio and have been to Camp Perry. I have bought an M1 and a 1903A3. CMP Purchased rifles should be excluded from normal gun show and gun store pricing, as it is a special case.

Walk into any gun store in America and you CANNOT find an M1 for $600.

Auctionarms.com
Gunbroker.com

You can get nice examples for $70-$100 pretty easily.

Also, all Mosin-Nagants (both Hex and Round receiver) were milled. There were no stamped variations.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.
As for the M1, it's all about what your standard is. Yes, you can get a $600 M1, but it will not be matched, the wood will be beat up badly, the bore will be pitted slightly, etc.

Camp Perry requires a membership into a Civilian Marksmanship Club or organization to even purchase a rifle from them. Then, they are only open on certain days of the year, and if you don't buy in person, you have a long wait.

Luckily, I live in Ohio and have been to Camp Perry. I have bought an M1 and a 1903A3. CMP Purchased rifles should be excluded from normal gun show and gun store pricing, as it is a special case.

Walk into any gun store in America and you CANNOT find an M1 for $600.

Auctionarms.com
Gunbroker.com

I guess my experience has been quite different than yours.

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: edro
I have had both.
They are completely different. They are both a joy to shoot.

I would definitely get a Nosin to begin with. You can get a NICE one from a gun show for $200, or a shitty one for $120.
A shitty M1 will cost you over $700, and a nice one is over $1200.

Nosin's bolt action is fun, and the gun feels more like a clunky old Soviet tool, which is part of its appeal.
The M1 is much higher quality, heavier, smoother to shoot and has American history behind it.

or you can get a nice Mosin online for like $70...

wow...i have to wonder where your knowledge of guns comes from...

you can get a decent M1 Garand for about $600.

You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.
As for the M1, it's all about what your standard is. Yes, you can get a $600 M1, but it will not be matched, the wood will be beat up badly, the bore will be pitted slightly, etc.

Camp Perry requires a membership into a Civilian Marksmanship Club or organization to even purchase a rifle from them. Then, they are only open on certain days of the year, and if you don't buy in person, you have a long wait.

Luckily, I live in Ohio and have been to Camp Perry. I have bought an M1 and a 1903A3. CMP Purchased rifles should be excluded from normal gun show and gun store pricing, as it is a special case.

Walk into any gun store in America and you CANNOT find an M1 for $600.
Auctionarms.com
Gunbroker.com

Quite true.

Both my M1 and '03A3 were CMP and in exceptional condition. The M1 actually turned out to be a Winchester model. I was floored.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: pontifex

I guess my experience has been quite different than yours.

When was your last time looking at Garands? He's right, quality Garand's are $1000+ these days. $600 will buy a bottom of the barrel sample.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: DeadByDawn
m1 by far.....

.30-06 is one of the most common rounds in the US
more accurate
better sights
better resale
semi auto


get one from odcmp.com

it's the cmp a quasi .gov organization

The Garand has a "tender" gas system that is designed to operate with ammo working in a narrow range of gas port pressure.
Most 30-06 ammo found on store shelve will cause you problems with a M1 Garand. The Garands' gas operation system was designed to work with M2 Ball military ammo. If you get to far outside that specification your going to have problems. Common hunting loads utilizing heavier bullets often won't work at all because the powder used is to slow burning to operate the gas system properly and can damage the rifle. Even hunting loads utilizing 150 gr bullets usually won't work.

A loading of a 147-150 fmj over 4895 is equal to the basic M2 ball load.

Reloaders rule of thumb for Garands is.

1) NEVER load with bullets heavier than 180 grains
2) NEVER load with powder that is SLOWER than IMR-4320

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: pontifex

I guess my experience has been quite different than yours.

When was your last time looking at Garands? He's right, quality Garand's are $1000+ these days. $600 will buy a bottom of the barrel sample.

CMP is selling hardly bottom of barrel for $600

if you don't know the market then prepare to get raped on guns. My dad picked up two new beretta's and a 1911A for about half what some of our friends paid used.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: pontifex

I guess my experience has been quite different than yours.

When was your last time looking at Garands? He's right, quality Garand's are $1000+ these days. $600 will buy a bottom of the barrel sample.

about 5-6 months ago. CMP still sells service grade rifles for $595 (sold out for now though) and I've heard from many people who bought these and said they were in great condition.

I also got a mosin 91/30 back in Feb/March or so and it was in excellent condition. I think it was $100 for a hex receiver, which is harder to find than a round receiver.