Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Springfield isn't even the same company as the one of long ago. Someone else just purchased the name. Same for Armalite. Nuttin' to do with the original companies.
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Springfield isn't even the same company as the one of long ago. Someone else just purchased the name. Same for Armalite. Nuttin' to do with the original companies.
Originally posted by: Cable God
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Cable God
Guys keep throwing around terms as always..... M1's today, made by Springfield are NOT .30/06. They are 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester.
The M1 of old, IS a .30/06 in caliber though.
Big difference when you try to chamber and fire a .30/06 round in a .308 gun.
Throwing it around that loosely will SURELY get someone hurt.....
Make sure you know what you're getting if you go with an M1.
They are, hands down, WAY better than a Mosin.
Yes, I own both, actually all three. The M1's are an older one from CMP, by H&R (.30/06) and a Springfield Scout (.308).
Springfield isn't even the same company as the one of long ago. Someone else just purchased the name. Same for Armalite. Nuttin' to do with the original companies.
He didn't say which he was going with (CMP or Springfield) I just wanted him to be aware, that there are two different chamberings depending on age (even though this IS alkemyst). It's easy to get confused. H&R is Harrington & Richardson. Winchester also manufactured M1A's as well. I wasn't referring to the carbine nor the paratrooper model.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
I am not really a gun elitist...looking for real-world shooters.
I am looking for a gun for that end of world scenario. Most of the uber recommendations (like FN's) simply will not have any ammo around if the shit hits the fan.
I like the idea of the Mosin as it's a freaking monster when it comes to firing dirty and unmaintained, but I don't like the fact that some have reported buying them that were unshootable or dangerous/backfiring/etc.
If I did end up with the Mosin, I'd definitely drop another $100 or so on a nice stock. More than the gun is worth sure...but it'll pay off in handling it.
I intend to possibly buy a handgun as well, debating that a lot. I don't plan on a concealed carry I want something I know I can always find ammo for that will absofuckinglutely put my assailant down...I am concerned with shooting through body armor. Most of the thugs down here have better armor than the police.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
not really looking at AK-47's they are not equivalent. Same way with non-Garand's.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Mo0o
I dont know shit about guns but what about the AR-15? Is the ammo rare?
AR-15 is expensive and the ammo isn't that 'effective' more or less.
You can do a few youtube searches on how a concrete wall is handled by a .223 vs the 7.62 or equivalent rounds.
I'd love an AK-47, but the 'good' ones are going for a pretty steep price from what I have seen.
Originally posted by: jamesbond007
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Mo0o
I dont know shit about guns but what about the AR-15? Is the ammo rare?
AR-15 is expensive and the ammo isn't that 'effective' more or less.
You can do a few youtube searches on how a concrete wall is handled by a .223 vs the 7.62 or equivalent rounds.
I'd love an AK-47, but the 'good' ones are going for a pretty steep price from what I have seen.
Ah - you bring up the wonderful debate of power and reliability versus accuracy and precision. Good luck hitting a target at 200+ yards with MOA precision with your AK. Not saying it can't be done, but it's far more difficult to pull off.
I adore my AR-15 and I would have to be pretty tight on funds to ever sell this wonderful gun. I'm adding a DD free-float quadrail later this summer, which should help even more with accuracy. It's my anti-zombie weapon of choice and I have a FNP-45 as a sidearm.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
problem with the AR-15 can easily be seen on YouTube vs many other guns. It's accurate, excellent rate of fire; yes...however it's not a big game round and will not go through a concrete wall like higher caliber guns will.
You have to look at the "why" of the AR-15 to understand it's purpose and intent though. I know many that love them just because they can show them around like a big gun wiener with thousands of dollars in outfitting.
The long barreled Mosin's have a iron sights to 2000 meters.
This thread has gone off track to those simply speculating rather than have fired these guns.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
The long barreled Mosin's have a iron sights to 2000 meters.
Originally posted by: Peelback79
Mosin's are cheap, but they're bolt action. Low rate of fire.
M1's are more expensive, but ammo pricing are relatively as cheap as a mosin. It's also IMO, a more accurate gun. However, you're limited to 8 rounds per clip.
You're going to spend around $100 for a decent Mosin, and I'd recommend spending at least $600-700 on an M1 if you go that route.
May I offer an alternative though: An AK-47. Rated battle range of 300 yards (recommended range of engagement at maximum). The standard in performance vs. maintanance. Cheap ammo. A decent AK can be had for $350 at a gun show. Plus, it's more expensive, but you can add a 100 round drum to the bottom for sustained rawr! It's a .30 caliber bullet that will still punch through any body armor at 200 yards. Here's mine. Best $500 clams I ever spent so far.
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: alkemyst
The long barreled Mosin's have a iron sights to 2000 meters.
At which point they are useless unless you're Simo Häyhä and have a specially-prepared and smithed variant like he did.
Honestly, the iron sights on a Mosin are not great. They are "close enough for government work" out to 200 or maybe 300 yards on the average rifle. Further than that and you'll want optics. If you buy one of the Finnish or the sniper variants, then they will be more accurate, but the sights are still not nearly as friendly as peep sights are.
The 1,000+ meter markings on the sight of the Mosin were for volley fire, not aimed fire.
As far as the 7.62x54R going through concrete... Cinder blocks maybe, but not anything substantially hardened.
ZV
Originally posted by: clamum
Regarding the CMP route when buying a Garand: It says you need to be a member of one of their listed clubs or groups. I'm not and I looked at their ones in Michigan and there's none around where I live (all are downstate MI and I live in the Upper Peninsula). So is buying one through them kinda shot-in-the-ass for me? If so, what is the next best option (there's also no gun shops around here either) get a nice, doesn't have to be perfect, quality Garand?
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: clamum
Regarding the CMP route when buying a Garand: It says you need to be a member of one of their listed clubs or groups. I'm not and I looked at their ones in Michigan and there's none around where I live (all are downstate MI and I live in the Upper Peninsula). So is buying one through them kinda shot-in-the-ass for me? If so, what is the next best option (there's also no gun shops around here either) get a nice, doesn't have to be perfect, quality Garand?
There are two requirements. Getting your Type 3 gun license ($30/3 years) is another part of joining a Garand club. The CMP can tell you options in your area if you contact them.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
K98 + the ammo is much more expensive than a Mosin and many still prefer the Mosin.
The K98 Is a great rifle as well.