M1 Garand vs Mosin Nagant

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Personally, for a bolt action I prefer the Mausers. A K98k is a great rifle but the 8mm surplus is drying up if it hasn't already. The '03 Springfield is a great compromise. The Mauser action with windage sights (ladder on the original, peep on the A models) and it shoots the '06 cartridge. The Lee-Enfield has a really really slick action but it is hard to find .303.

For bolt action, I have never, ever handled anything better than the Swiss-issue K-31. Straight pull bolt is kind of neat too. But it's a surplus MOA rifle in most cases.

It's a shame that GP-11 ammo is so hard to find anymore, at least at reasonable prices.

 

[Mo0o]

I dont know shit about guns but what about the AR-15? Is the ammo rare?

 

[pontifex]

I have a 1918 Enfield No.1 Mk. III. Very nice rifle as well.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: pontifex
I have a 1918 Enfield No.1 Mk. II. Very nice rifle as well.

:thumbsup:

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Personally, for a bolt action I prefer the Mausers. A K98k is a great rifle but the 8mm surplus is drying up if it hasn't already. The '03 Springfield is a great compromise. The Mauser action with windage sights (ladder on the original, peep on the A models) and it shoots the '06 cartridge. The Lee-Enfield has a really really slick action but it is hard to find .303.

For bolt action, I have never, ever handled anything better than the Swiss-issue K-31. Straight pull bolt is kind of neat too. But it's a surplus MOA rifle in most cases.

It's a shame that GP-11 ammo is so hard to find anymore, at least at reasonable prices.

Yeah, the straight pull is really neat but man is it hard to get ammo for it. I remember going to one shop several years back and they had maybe four or six K-31's on the rack for sale.

 

[zerocool84]

You say for end or world scenario then it would be AK-47 hands down. Most produced gun ever.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: edro
You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.

The only non-matching piece on my $70 Mosin is the bayonet. Barrel, receiver, bolt, magazine, and even the steel butt-plate are all numbers-matching. Also, as others have pointed out, they never made a stamped Mosin, there's simply no such thing. They all have milled receivers. The bore was clean and bright and it's easily accurate enough for practical use. No, the wood isn't presentation grade, but I don't buy guns so I can polish the stock.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
I dont know shit about guns but what about the AR-15? Is the ammo rare?

AR-15 is expensive and the ammo isn't that 'effective' more or less.

You can do a few youtube searches on how a concrete wall is handled by a .223 vs the 7.62 or equivalent rounds.

I'd love an AK-47, but the 'good' ones are going for a pretty steep price from what I have seen.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: edro
You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.

The only non-matching piece on my $70 Mosin is the bayonet. Barrel, receiver, bolt, magazine, and even the steel butt-plate are all numbers-matching. Also, as others have pointed out, they never made a stamped Mosin, there's simply no such thing. They all have milled receivers. The bore was clean and bright and it's easily accurate enough for practical use. No, the wood isn't presentation grade, but I don't buy guns so I can polish the stock.

ZV

Replacement stocks are also all of about $100...there is a lot of misinformation on the Mosin's, hence why I was hoping for those that have purchased and used them.

It seems a great rifle for the price. I just don't know if the semi-auto nature of the M1 would be better.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: edro
You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.

The only non-matching piece on my $70 Mosin is the bayonet. Barrel, receiver, bolt, magazine, and even the steel butt-plate are all numbers-matching. Also, as others have pointed out, they never made a stamped Mosin, there's simply no such thing. They all have milled receivers. The bore was clean and bright and it's easily accurate enough for practical use. No, the wood isn't presentation grade, but I don't buy guns so I can polish the stock.

ZV

Yeah, I'm sorry. I was thinking AKs when I mentioned the stamped receiver.

I paid $79 for one of my Mosins, and completely refinished the wood on it.
That wax and varnished coated wood is horrible. You can make the rifle look amazing with a few day's worth of attention.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: edro
You can get a shitty, non-matched, horrible wood, stamped receiver Nosin for $70.

The only non-matching piece on my $70 Mosin is the bayonet. Barrel, receiver, bolt, magazine, and even the steel butt-plate are all numbers-matching. Also, as others have pointed out, they never made a stamped Mosin, there's simply no such thing. They all have milled receivers. The bore was clean and bright and it's easily accurate enough for practical use. No, the wood isn't presentation grade, but I don't buy guns so I can polish the stock.

ZV

Replacement stocks are also all of about $100...there is a lot of misinformation on the Mosin's, hence why I was hoping for those that have purchased and used them.

It seems a great rifle for the price. I just don't know if the semi-auto nature of the M1 would be better.

For a "field use" rifle, the Mosin is hard to beat. They're cheap, they're reliable, and they fire a powerful round that is readily available. However, they are also old and like any surplus rifle require that you pay attention when buying one. It is important to check things like the condition of the bore before purchasing. And the bolt can stick a bit with some ammo; it's not as smooth an action as more modern rifles (and certainly not as nice as a semi-auto like the M1).

I haven't had a chance to play around much with an M1, but, aside from costing more, I would think that the M1 is just as much a fine choice. I've certainly never come across anyone who hated their M1.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

another interesting bit about the Mosin's....they are still used against polar bears. Think I am going to try for a M39 in excellent condition.

 

[Mide]

Here's a related question that I've been wondering. If you were a Russian solider fighting in WWII with this Mosin Nagant, shooting 7.62x54r corrosive rounds, I highly doubt they would've had good cleaning supplies readily available. So what did they do/use in order to prevent the rust/corrosion if they were out in the thick of things?

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Mide
Here's a related question that I've been wondering. If you were a Russian solider fighting in WWII with this Mosin Nagant, shooting 7.62x54r corrosive rounds, I highly doubt they would've had good cleaning supplies readily available. So what did they do/use in order to prevent the rust/corrosion if they were out in the thick of things?

You just need to dissolve the salts away that are left in the barrel. You can use hot water if you want, I used an ammonia water mix. It really just means that you have to be a little more attentive to maintainance, not a problem for a soldier.

Hell, if you really had to you could piss down the barrel I guess...

 

[Mide]

So it can just be water from a canteen if they couldn't get it hot, right?

 

[czech09]

I'll go with the Mosin as that was my weapon of choice in the original COD.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Mide
So it can just be water from a canteen if they couldn't get it hot, right?

Yeah. I'm sure there were times where a soldier ran out of oil and patches to clean their rifles. But tear up a rag, wet and pour some water down the barrel and run the rag through as a patch and that would probably be enough until they could get resupplied or exchange the gun due to a defect.

I'm not sure how much maintainance that you really need as a bare minimum. I grew up doing target shooting so I am inclined to run a whole package of patches down the bore until they come out as clean as new fallen snow. But a lot of the milsurp shooters I shot with would wet down a patch with some ammonia solution, run a couple of them up and down, and then do a swab or two of cleaning oil. The one thing to remember though is that after running whatever it is you are using to clean out the salts to clean out the solution from the barrel. Water, and especially ammonia, will cause corrosion on their own. I lost a ton of really good ammo when my bottle of ammonia solution leaked while in storage.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: Mide
Here's a related question that I've been wondering. If you were a Russian solider fighting in WWII with this Mosin Nagant, shooting 7.62x54r corrosive rounds, I highly doubt they would've had good cleaning supplies readily available. So what did they do/use in order to prevent the rust/corrosion if they were out in the thick of things?

You just need to dissolve the salts away that are left in the barrel. You can use hot water if you want, I used an ammonia water mix. It really just means that you have to be a little more attentive to maintainance, not a problem for a soldier.

Hell, if you really had to you could piss down the barrel I guess...

the average life expectancy for a soviet soldier during the battle of stalingrad was about 24 hours.

rust...not an issue

 

[Colt45]

in a SHTF scavenging mission, I'd assume you'd mostly be coming up with .308 and 12ga... no?

 

[alkemyst]

yeah water and patches are still one of the preferred ways to clean after corrosive ammo. As long as you get the barrel dry you are in good shape. Even non-Russian troops used this method.

Corrosive ammo is greatly misunderstood.

 

[Mide]

Here's a question of the future availability of x54R ammo. How long do people think it'll last? Currently almost all suppliers have surplus cans for around $80-110 for 440 rounds. These are all 70s-80s year ammo. Do countries start selling them off after x number of years or are they getting rid of everything because they have gone over to a new caliber for their military. I mention this because I'm interested in getting a Mosin or PSL/Romak3 but if you look at the price for non-surplus ammo i.e. Silver Bear the price per round jumps from $.18 to $.43 making this round more/less the same price as a .308. But if I had to pick from the two at that price, I'd go for the .308.

How long has this surplus stuff been available? Are ammo companies still actively producing this caliber?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Mide
Here's a question of the future availability of x54R ammo. How long do people think it'll last? Currently almost all suppliers have surplus cans for around $80-110 for 440 rounds. These are all 70s-80s year ammo. Do countries start selling them off after x number of years or are they getting rid of everything because they have gone over to a new caliber for their military. I mention this because I'm interested in getting a Mosin or PSL/Romak3 but if you look at the price for non-surplus ammo i.e. Silver Bear the price per round jumps from $.18 to $.43 making this round more/less the same price as a .308. But if I had to pick from the two at that price, I'd go for the .308.

How long has this surplus stuff been available? Are ammo companies still actively producing this caliber?

I can only imagine the freaking mountainous stockpiles of small arms ammunition left over in E. Europe and Russia after the fall of the USSR. They never throw anything away, hell they're still holding on to millions of K98 Mausers and 8mm mauser ammo stocks from WWII.

The Russians and Eastern European countries have factories that are tooled to turn out enormous amounts of 7.62x54r thanks to the Soviet Union. They continue to do so as there is a market for the ammo for both civilian sales and military use. It makes sense to sell off the old ammo made at very little cost since they can get good money for it and just produce new.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Mide
Here's a question of the future availability of x54R ammo. How long do people think it'll last? Currently almost all suppliers have surplus cans for around $80-110 for 440 rounds. These are all 70s-80s year ammo. Do countries start selling them off after x number of years or are they getting rid of everything because they have gone over to a new caliber for their military. I mention this because I'm interested in getting a Mosin or PSL/Romak3 but if you look at the price for non-surplus ammo i.e. Silver Bear the price per round jumps from $.18 to $.43 making this round more/less the same price as a .308. But if I had to pick from the two at that price, I'd go for the .308.

How long has this surplus stuff been available? Are ammo companies still actively producing this caliber?

Not counting the machine guns and other weapons that took this round, the Mosin is the second most produced rifle in the world, right behind the AK-47.

It was actively used into the 80's by military

I didn't realize .308 ammo was that cheap, but what full designation? The 7.62x54/57R has the advantage for being a very powerful round. It will put holes in a concrete wall. Most surplus is sold off during war time decommission, the military keeps their needed reserves and sells off the left over. Surplus ammo is just as good and sometime better than new.

I don't see any shortage in 7.62x57 for a long long time...at least my lifetime.

 

[Mide]

Originally posted by: K1052
I can only imagine the freaking mountainous stockpiles of small arms ammunition left over in E. Europe and Russia after the fall of the USSR.

lol yeah I imagine it's a lot. Reminds me of when I used to live in Tucson, AZ. There is an airforce base there where if you drive near it all you see are rows upon rows of A10s and F16s with white plastic over the wings and windows...its like they've never been 'opened'. Tons of backup planes for our military...a truly wonderful sight.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Not counting the machine guns and other weapons that took this round, the Mosin is the second most produced rifle in the world, right behind the AK-47.

I didn't realize .308 ammo was that cheap, but what full designation?

I don't see any shortage in 7.62x57 for a long long time...at least my lifetime.

.308 is more expensive...but I was just using that as a ballpark example. The AK 7.62 is ballpark $.26 per round which is much lower than the $.43.

Wait so the Mosin is or was the second most produced rifle? Is it still being actively produced?
Well it's good to hear about the ammo...I may have to pick one up now

 

[judasmachine]

I just want something little and simple like a Mini-14. I used to own one, and had tons of fun plinking with it.