MAC Haters

[Torghn]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
When it comes down to it, there are simply no compelling arguments for a new buyer to go for a Mac over a PC, PERIOD. End of discussion, both OS's are equally stable, PC's are faster and cheaper, PC's can run more software, and PC's are more upgradable. Did i mention PC's are cheaper?

They also come with a better mouse.

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Originally posted by: Torghn

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
When it comes down to it, there are simply no compelling arguments for a new buyer to go for a Mac over a PC, PERIOD. End of discussion, both OS's are equally stable, PC's are faster and cheaper, PC's can run more software, and PC's are more upgradable. Did i mention PC's are cheaper?

They also come with a better mouse.

god damn, mac's don't all use the gay hockey puck mouse, just like all wintel machine's don't use two button no scroll ps2 mice... Today at work I fixed a mac and used a 3 button scroll mouse :Q

 

[MacBaine]

Hey Lucky, I just noticed that you have a quote from me in your sig. I feel so special

 

[Torghn]

Originally posted by: MacBaine
Hey Lucky, I just noticed that you have a quote from me in your sig. I feel so special

It's a very good quote, when I first read it I didn't relize it was from someone on these boards. Thought it was someone famous that I didn't know.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: Torghn

Originally posted by: MacBaine
Hey Lucky, I just noticed that you have a quote from me in your sig. I feel so special

It's a very good quote, when I first read it I didn't relize it was from someone on these boards. Thought it was someone famous that I didn't know.

Damn... I didn't know I was held with such high regards

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Mac users still don't address the fundamental issue of PRICE.

Macs are more expensive. Alright, we did it again!

A top of the line PC will smoke a top of the line Mac,

Only if it is an AMD and you throw water on it.

in EVERYTHING (there is nothing that the Mac can beat the PC at when using top-of-the-line systems).

I addressed this already.

Thus, there is no compelling reason to go with a Mac.

Yes there is.

Plus, OSX is not as stable as you Mac users claim (it crashes just as much as windows does).

And we admit it.

A PC is also fully upgradable,

So is a Mac.

and thus a wiser investment. A Mac is not fully upgradable

Huh?

and will become obsolete and outdated quicker than a PC will

Actually, Macs become obsolete slower than x86 machines (macs are pcs too). Find me a 5 year old x86 machine that costs as much as a 5yo Mac.

(granted both will become obsolete quite quickly).

~6 month product cycles for Apple keeps Macs alive longer.

You can also DO MORE on a freakin PC,

Like? Play games... uhhhh

you Mac users have no compelling arguments anymore.

I like PPC arch better than x86.

You can't run programs faster,

Most.

you can't run more programs than a windows user can,

Yes, I can.

your OS isn't more stable than WINXP or Win2k is,

Its on par with win2k.

and your Mac's cost a hell of a lot more.

Mine didnt.

That's why Apple will never own more than 5% of the market share.

Maybe.

oh yea, Mac users are also ugly./q]

Good one.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: istallion

I don't think anyone said Macs were cheaper. Most would probably liken it to buying a Ford or an Infinity.

I think it's best if we avoid analogies when the parties discussing the issue are fairly well versed. It almost always introduces false perceptions of the two domains being compared.

Huh?

Yea damn Macs with their proprietary IDE hard drives, SDRAM, PCI cards, etc.

I think the issue is that Apple generally discourages upgrading.

Ummmm no. Why else would their case fold out so nicely?

You have to buy a $1700 powermac to get a few pci slots and a whopping 2 external drive bays.

And firewire, and usb.

Let's not forget the performance hit you're going to take running osX without new hardware,

The only thing you would need to add is ram, and thats a pretty easy install. With 1.5GB mac though, you are pretty limited

and if you want to run quartz extreme you have to have a 3d card.

Adequate 3d cards come standard in *every* new Mac, and many of the older ones.

Then there was the g4 upgrade trojan that apple released a while back.

Huh? If you mean a trojan of the software update "vulnerability" then please give me a link. If you mean some kind of hardware (g4) trojan, give me some instructions on how to do it!

Actually since OS X is built on unix it can now run all the regular Mac programs + most unix programs. So the software library for OS X has grown exponentially just because of it's roots.

This is great for apple but, if you're running windows you don't really ever have to worry if there is a port for windows or windows drivers for some device.

Windows supports more hardware. And 99% of it is crap.

If there is some server or unix app that doesn't run under windows, free linux is cheaper than new mac + osX.

But you deal wi th x86 issues. f00f

A dual G4 1Ghz with 2M cache would kick a dual 1Ghz PCs ass unless you pay the ~$1K for each Xeon with 2M cache on them.

That would be true with altivec optimized apps but this comparison isn't relevant.

Compare the same program on both. One optimized for AltiVec and the other optimized using SIMD. Get rid of the multimedia stuff, since most x86 users complain about photoshop. Lets do number crunching. Pure unadulterated number crunching.

I couldn't find a dual 1ghz p3 for sale, but I bet it would be significantly cheaper than the $3000 apple wants for theirs. You also seem to be confused that 2MB of 1/2 speed L3 cache is some performance savior. It's actually there to hide the performance of pc133 ram.

Its not 1/2 speed l3 cache. Get your facts straight.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: skace

Not true. Recent versions of NT are pretty stable, but OS X in general is stable as hell, it's based on unix afterall.

I'd love to hear your research that leads you to believe that NT 5.0 is "pretty stable" and OSX is "stable as hell". In fact, You might even sell my entire company to upgrade to macs instead of our current model which plans to go to 2K in the coming year.

Im sorry (Biased anti-microsoft comment )

Now, just exactly how stable IS hell?

Its been going strong since the beginning of time. No downtime there.

As I see it, my 2K machine does every task imaginable, from photoshop, to video editing, to mp3 ripping, to dvd making, to office applications, to web browsing, to video games. Even after all these tasks, it has a current uptime of 1 week 6 days. The last time my Win2k machine crashed was due to an overheat since the temperature in my room was around 108 degrees F. It blue screened twice in that weather and I had to let it cool down. I am sure the heat and the 90% humidity wasn't good for it, and if I was smart I probably should have shut it off, but eh, I left it running... 24/7. Anyways, before those 2 blue screens, my machine was up for several months - since the last required reboot for an install. I do not understand how this constitutes "pretty stable". Perhaps "stable as hell" would have survived the 108 degree f weather and 90% humidity, although I doubt it.

Uptime isnt important to me. But it sounds like its good for you.

My point is, I think both Mac OSX users and Win2k/XP users can agree that both operating systems are stable.

I am a Mac OS X user, and forced to use 2k. I can agree, both are fairly stable when given good hardware.

They crash when an unknown and rare occurance happens and not during normal practice. I am basing the OSX part of that comment on the users here who seem to have it and are saying so. I would love to buy both systems premade and sit them side by side and see which one crashes during normal use, but I do not have the time nor money to pull off such a feat. So, I will take the mac users word that it is stable and combine it with my knowledge that 2k is stable.

You would basically have to do the same things on each. I dont stress 2k. I have 20+ windows open stressing the hardware, but thats about it. I stress X much much more.

In other words, your comment was off base.

Im not arguing with most of what you said, just didnt want to snip any of it and be accused of something stupid

Noc, you believed the quote the end of my post was perfectly fine, and that shows where you stand, no further need to comment on that. Your PS2 + Mac combo are deffinitely better than just my PC (even though... I also own a Ps2...).

If I liked computer games, I would own a Windows computer.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
When it comes down to it, there are simply no compelling arguments for a new buyer to go for a Mac over a PC, PERIOD. End of discussion, both OS's are equally stable, PC's are faster and cheaper, PC's can run more software, and PC's are more upgradable. Did i mention PC's are cheaper?

s/more/less Run omniweb on your 2k machine.

 

[TheOmegaCode]

I can see the point of not owning an Apple, and only an Apple (I likes the games too), but I don't see anything wrong with owning a SPARC, an Alpha, an iBook (when I get the money to buy it, and someone decides to sell it ) and/or a PC. They all suit some purpose, otherwise they would have died out, like Pauly Shore's career...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: TheOmegaCode
I can see the point of not owning an Apple, and only an Apple (I likes the games too), but I don't see anything wrong with owning a SPARC, an Alpha, an iBook (when I get the money to buy it, and someone decides to sell it ) and/or a PC. They all suit some purpose, otherwise they would have died out, like Pauly Shore's career...

Agreed. I have all but the alpha (the sparc4m will be working sometime in the near future ), but that will change when I get a chance to find one for a reasonable price. Wait... I do have one, just havent put it together yet. 166mhz Alpha

 

[silent tone]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: istallion

I don't think anyone said Macs were cheaper. Most would probably liken it to buying a Ford or an Infinity.

I think it's best if we avoid analogies when the parties discussing the issue are fairly well versed. It almost always introduces false perceptions of the two domains being compared.

Huh?

People make analogies because there is some similarity between two situations that may make it easier to explain the first situation. In this case mac prices. But this analogy is only valid with respect to the higher cost of infiniti vs ford and the refined interior and handling of the average infiniti vs average ford. There's several problems with this because when people listen to analogies they extend facts about the infiniti situation onto the situation of using a pc besides the 2 valid ones I just mentioned. Like the fact that the most infiniti's are faster, have better acceleration, (longer warranty?) than the ford. Also the fact that you don't have to drive on different roads, buy different gas or wait for the city to build special traffic lights for infiniti users. But the reality of the mac/pc situation, the mac is slower and needs special 'accesories/resources' (ported software/drivers/ADC connectors) for it to work.
Douglas Hofstadter probably described it much more clearly than I have in one of his books. Basically most analogies aren't truthful to a large degree. He called situations that are analagous down to an arbitrary degree isomorphisms, and there are very few of them.

Yea damn Macs with their proprietary IDE hard drives, SDRAM, PCI cards, etc.

I think the issue is that Apple generally discourages upgrading.

Ummmm no. Why else would their case fold out so nicely?

You have to buy a $1700 powermac to get a few pci slots and a whopping 2 external drive bays.

And firewire, and usb.

Okay. Apple discourages their regular users from upgrading with internal devices. Some people prefer not to have permanent drives and adapters sitting on their desk wired up with usb and firewire cables. Remember the towers are only for professionals and 'prosumers' if you listen to apple.

Let's not forget the performance hit you're going to take running osX without new hardware,

The only thing you would need to add is ram, and thats a pretty easy install. With 1.5GB mac though, you are pretty limited

and if you want to run quartz extreme you have to have a 3d card.

Adequate 3d cards come standard in *every* new Mac, and many of the older ones.

OSX does like ram but I've read a lot of complaints about gui speed because all the graphics effects are still handled by the cpu. I haven't seen similar complaints from people moving to win2k or xp from win9x. Quartz extreme requires gf2mx or higher or agp radeon or higher and 16MB of VRAM. According to archive.org, this leaves out all imacs & ibooks as of jan 2002 and all powerbooks from a few months before that. The cube isn't supported unless you upgrade it with a small enough card either. I'd say that leaves a sizeable chunk of the mac market looking to upgrade if they want decent speed in osX.

Then there was the g4 upgrade trojan that apple released a while back.

Huh? If you mean a trojan of the software update "vulnerability" then please give me a link. If you mean some kind of hardware (g4) trojan, give me some instructions on how to do it!

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,21629,00.html
Declining to discuss the controversial accusations in detail, Apple spokeswoman Nathalie Welch merely said the machines were never designed to be upgraded, and users who want G4 performance should buy one of Apple's newest models.
She's talking about the blue and white g3 towers. A new version of the mac's bios equivalent was released that stopped people from adding g4's to a previously capable machine.

Actually since OS X is built on unix it can now run all the regular Mac programs + most unix programs. So the software library for OS X has grown exponentially just because of it's roots.

This is great for apple but, if you're running windows you don't really ever have to worry if there is a port for windows or windows drivers for some device.

Windows supports more hardware. And 99% of it is crap.

Well I guess you're right, choice is bad. You know, amd used to make products that didn't exactly light the world on fire, but nobody needs their crap now eh. I'm sure that 99% figure is a purely empirical statistic.

If there is some server or unix app that doesn't run under windows, free linux is cheaper than new mac + osX.

But you deal wi th x86 issues. f00f

Are you trying to point out problems with the x86 ISA that developers may have, or are you saying that x86 users fiddle with IRQ conflicts and such all the time?

A dual G4 1Ghz with 2M cache would kick a dual 1Ghz PCs ass unless you pay the ~$1K for each Xeon with 2M cache on them.

That would be true with altivec optimized apps but this comparison isn't relevant.

Compare the same program on both. One optimized for AltiVec and the other optimized using SIMD. Get rid of the multimedia stuff, since most x86 users complain about photoshop. Lets do number crunching. Pure unadulterated number crunching.

First, Altivec is an SIMD instruction set, just like sse and 3dnow, just implemented differently. Altivec's performance is strong in several cases, but many operations are suited to SIMD. For evidence check out spec benchmarks:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/
and an assortment of benches:
http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/
Not exactly "kicking a**" of the p3's Spec doesn't have specific instructions for SIMD, it's up to the compiler used to add any optimizations it can. I'm not certain on the other applications.
I said the comparison was irrelevant because I don't see much sense in comparing a top of the line mac with an aging p3.

I couldn't find a dual 1ghz p3 for sale, but I bet it would be significantly cheaper than the $3000 apple wants for theirs. You also seem to be confused that 2MB of 1/2 speed L3 cache is some performance savior. It's actually there to hide the performance of pc133 ram.

Its not 1/2 speed l3 cache. Get your facts straight.

The Xeon that was mentioned has up to 2MB on-die L2 cache (both the p3 an p4 versions). It seems the off-die L3 cache runs 'up to 500Mhz' but are DDR srams. I'm not sure how wide the bus is so I don't know what frequency they actually run at.

 

[tk149]

Preface: I haven't used a Mac in 10 years. All I know about today's Macs are what I've seen on TV and in this thread. And I saw this HUGE Apple LCD Monitor at CompUSA that I've been lusting after ever since.

For any Mac users: I'm confused. On this thread, I've seen claims that you can custom build your own Mac, including case, CPU, mobo, Hard drives, OS, etc.

How? Can you direct me to a website that can help me?

Also, from reading, it looks like Macs take standard EIDE drives. ATA-??? Standard 4-pin power connector? So can I plug any IBM/Maxtor/Seagate HD in?

How about printers and other peripherals? Are they standard interfaces? (Yes, I now know you can use any USB mouse)

PC133 SDRAM 168-pin DIMM? Any AGP Nvidia/ATI/Matrox video card?

Teach me about the Darkside...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: istallion

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: istallion

I don't think anyone said Macs were cheaper. Most would probably liken it to buying a Ford or an Infinity.

I think it's best if we avoid analogies when the parties discussing the issue are fairly well versed. It almost always introduces false perceptions of the two domains being compared.

Huh?

People make analogies because there is some similarity between two situations that may make it easier to explain the first situation. In this case mac prices. But this analogy is only valid with respect to the higher cost of infiniti vs ford and the refined interior and handling of the average infiniti vs average ford. There's several problems with this because when people listen to analogies they extend facts about the infiniti situation onto the situation of using a pc besides the 2 valid ones I just mentioned. Like the fact that the most infiniti's are faster, have better acceleration, (longer warranty?) than the ford. Also the fact that you don't have to drive on different roads, buy different gas or wait for the city to build special traffic lights for infiniti users. But the reality of the mac/pc situation, the mac is slower and needs special 'accesories/resources' (ported software/drivers/ADC connectors) for it to work.
Douglas Hofstadter probably described it much more clearly than I have in one of his books. Basically most analogies aren't truthful to a large degree. He called situations that are analagous down to an arbitrary degree isomorphisms, and there are very few of them.

Thank you.

Yea damn Macs with their proprietary IDE hard drives, SDRAM, PCI cards, etc.

I think the issue is that Apple generally discourages upgrading.

Ummmm no. Why else would their case fold out so nicely?

You have to buy a $1700 powermac to get a few pci slots and a whopping 2 external drive bays.

And firewire, and usb.

Okay. Apple discourages their regular users from upgrading with internal devices. Some people prefer not to have permanent drives and adapters sitting on their desk wired up with usb and firewire cables. Remember the towers are only for professionals and 'prosumers' if you listen to apple.

Let's not forget the performance hit you're going to take running osX without new hardware,

The only thing you would need to add is ram, and thats a pretty easy install. With 1.5GB mac though, you are pretty limited

and if you want to run quartz extreme you have to have a 3d card.

Adequate 3d cards come standard in *every* new Mac, and many of the older ones.

OSX does like ram but I've read a lot of complaints about gui speed because all the graphics effects are still handled by the cpu. I haven't seen similar complaints from people moving to win2k or xp from win9x. Quartz extreme requires gf2mx or higher or agp radeon or higher and 16MB of VRAM. According to archive.org, this leaves out all imacs & ibooks as of jan 2002 and all powerbooks from a few months before that. The cube isn't supported unless you upgrade it with a small enough card either. I'd say that leaves a sizeable chunk of the mac market looking to upgrade if they want decent speed in osX.

There have been complaints about Windows performance on older hardware too. But I definitely agree that the quartz extreme is awfully restrictive in who can take advantage of it.

Then there was the g4 upgrade trojan that apple released a while back.

Huh? If you mean a trojan of the software update "vulnerability" then please give me a link. If you mean some kind of hardware (g4) trojan, give me some instructions on how to do it!

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,21629,00.html
Declining to discuss the controversial accusations in detail, Apple spokeswoman Nathalie Welch merely said the machines were never designed to be upgraded, and users who want G4 performance should buy one of Apple's newest models.
She's talking about the blue and white g3 towers. A new version of the mac's bios equivalent was released that stopped people from adding g4's to a previously capable machine.

Ok, you confused me with your use of the word trojan.

Actually since OS X is built on unix it can now run all the regular Mac programs + most unix programs. So the software library for OS X has grown exponentially just because of it's roots.

This is great for apple but, if you're running windows you don't really ever have to worry if there is a port for windows or windows drivers for some device.

Windows supports more hardware. And 99% of it is crap.

Well I guess you're right, choice is bad. You know, amd used to make products that didn't exactly light the world on fire, but nobody needs their crap now eh. I'm sure that 99% figure is a purely empirical statistic.

99% is a larger number than in reality, but I stick to my point that most of the hardware out there right now is crap. Now, maybe the problem is drivers, but I wont ever find out.

If there is some server or unix app that doesn't run under windows, free linux is cheaper than new mac + osX.

But you deal wi th x86 issues. f00f

Are you trying to point out problems with the x86 ISA that developers may have, or are you saying that x86 users fiddle with IRQ conflicts and such all the time?

F00F was a bug in the original pentiums.

There are more buffer overflows for x86 architectures, and there are no OSes safe.

IRQ conflicts are a problem that I had forgotten about, since I havent had a problem with them in years. Maybe its because I dont load my x86 machines with crappy hardware?

A dual G4 1Ghz with 2M cache would kick a dual 1Ghz PCs ass unless you pay the ~$1K for each Xeon with 2M cache on them.

That would be true with altivec optimized apps but this comparison isn't relevant.

Compare the same program on both. One optimized for AltiVec and the other optimized using SIMD. Get rid of the multimedia stuff, since most x86 users complain about photoshop. Lets do number crunching. Pure unadulterated number crunching.

First, Altivec is an SIMD instruction set, just like sse and 3dnow, just implemented differently.

Yeah, I know. It was early (for me) and I used the wrong word. Meant SSE2. Oops.

Altivec's performance is strong in several cases, but many operations are suited to SIMD. For evidence check out spec benchmarks:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/
and an assortment of benches:
http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/
Not exactly "kicking a**" of the p3's Spec doesn't have specific instructions for SIMD, it's up to the compiler used to add any optimizations it can. I'm not certain on the other applications.
I said the comparison was irrelevant because I don't see much sense in comparing a top of the line mac with an aging p3.

I agree. Testing against a P4 would be fine. No one (except the people that dont know better) expects the G4 to win everything. Mhz can make all the difference.

I couldn't find a dual 1ghz p3 for sale, but I bet it would be significantly cheaper than the $3000 apple wants for theirs. You also seem to be confused that 2MB of 1/2 speed L3 cache is some performance savior. It's actually there to hide the performance of pc133 ram.

Its not 1/2 speed l3 cache. Get your facts straight.

The Xeon that was mentioned has up to 2MB on-die L2 cache (both the p3 an p4 versions). It seems the off-die L3 cache runs 'up to 500Mhz' but are DDR srams. I'm not sure how wide the bus is so I don't know what frequency they actually run at.

I cant find the number right off unfortunately. The Xeon definitely has the advantage here though (Yes, a Mac user admitting an x86 processor has an advantage!).

 

[TNTrulez]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: tk149
Preface: I haven't used a Mac in 10 years. All I know about today's Macs are what I've seen on TV and in this thread. And I saw this HUGE Apple LCD Monitor at CompUSA that I've been lusting after ever since.

For any Mac users: I'm confused. On this thread, I've seen claims that you can custom build your own Mac, including case, CPU, mobo, Hard drives, OS, etc.

How? Can you direct me to a website that can help me?

mobo/cpu(?): ebay.com
hard drive: newegg.com, maxtor.com, ibm.com, fujitsu.com, westerndigital.com, etc
ram: crucial is where I buy most of my ram from
case: where do you buy your cases now?

Also, from reading, it looks like Macs take standard EIDE drives. ATA-??? Standard 4-pin power connector? So can I plug any IBM/Maxtor/Seagate HD in?

Of course!

How about printers and other peripherals? Are they standard interfaces? (Yes, I now know you can use any USB mouse)

Printers use usb dont they?

PC133 SDRAM 168-pin DIMM?

Check out crucial.com

Any AGP Nvidia/ATI/Matrox video card?

You may need Mac specific cards, but all three of those companies make them.

Teach me about the Darkside...

Darkside? Yeah, I guess light and colorful is kinda dark... Or whatever.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: TNTrulez

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

HOOMO

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: TNTrulez

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

HOOMO

Oh, they forgot to mention that Mac users have no sense of humor. Especially not when someone makes fun of them or their Macs.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: TNTrulez

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

HOOMO

Oh, they forgot to mention that Mac users have no sense of humor. Especially not when someone makes fun of them or their Macs.

I found the Penny Arcade "raven the elitist asshole" cartoon, the gamer video and several of the other spoofed apple switch commercials very funny. This one was below par.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: TNTrulez

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

HOOMO

Oh, they forgot to mention that Mac users have no sense of humor. Especially not when someone makes fun of them or their Macs.

I found the Penny Arcade "raven the elitist asshole" cartoon, the gamer video and several of the other spoofed apple switch commercials very funny. This one was below par.

Why bother saying 'HOOMO' then? Either ignore it, or try and say something witty as a counter. Saying 'HOOMO' in this case sounds as silly as trying to convince people on here that they should abbreviate the 'United States of America' to 'USOA' or even 'TUSOA'...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: TNTrulez

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Honorable Organization of Macintosh Operators.

Sorry, I could not resist.

hahahahah HOMO. . .

HOOMO

Oh, they forgot to mention that Mac users have no sense of humor. Especially not when someone makes fun of them or their Macs.

I found the Penny Arcade "raven the elitist asshole" cartoon, the gamer video and several of the other spoofed apple switch commercials very funny. This one was below par.

Why bother saying 'HOOMO' then? Either ignore it, or try and say something witty as a counter. Saying 'HOOMO' in this case sounds as silly as trying to convince people on here that they should abbreviate the 'United States of America' to 'USOA' or even 'TUSOA'...

Notice how you did not capitalize the "o" in "of." They did. Thats all. Like I said, it wasnt up to par.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Ncmonkey you think that you are some kind of smart mac elitist by ripping apart every single criticism and responding with some smartass oneliner comment(thinking that you are correct?).

Please, prove to me that a Mac is AS fully upgradable as a PC? Prove to me that you can put in just as many different video/sound cards, tv tuners, harddrives, printers, mice, keyboards, network cards, processors, ram modules, HSF's, cdroms, dvdroms, cd burners as you can on a PC.

Also prove to me how a top of the line Mac is FASTER in a MAJORITY of programs when compared to a top of the line PC. Cmon show me some benchmarks, that prove ACROSS THE BOARD that the MAC wins hands down. Show me?

Also, Mac's get the latest technology MONTHS after PC users do. For example, PC users already have the latest wireless 802.11a NIC's, but Mac users are still stuck with Airport (or whatever it's called). Pc users also have access to the fastest video cards, sound cards, harddrives, processors, and RAM.

And you say Mac's can run more programs? Can they run more useful programs? I think not, considering how you only have iTunes to play your mp3's. I mean in Mac's there is either the high end program or the low end program. There is no middle ground. For example, for video editing of DVD's you can choose between apple's iDVD (which is for newbs and rather limited) or FINAL CUT PRO. Now final cut pro costs $1000, which your midrange users won't spend. With all this money you waste on an apple, you could buy at least two faster and cheaper PC's.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Ncmonkey you think that you are some kind of smart mac elitist by ripping apart every single criticism and responding with some smartass oneliner comment(thinking that you are correct?).

Its "n0cmonkey." Anyhow, I can do what you say if you would like.

Please, prove to me that a Mac is AS fully upgradable as a PC?

That is not a question.

Prove to me that you can put in just as many different video

You can have nVidia, ATi, and Matrox video cards. Are there any others that are worthwhile? I see atleast 5 different cards available for the mac while visitting 1 Mac site. nVidia GF4Ti, Matrox, ATi Radeon 7000, 8500, and 9000.

/sound cards,

I see 3 things that come up as sound cards, including the SB live. The sb live sounds fine to me.

tv tuners,

I did not see any of these labeled as such, and since this is such a stupid task for me to do when you could very well do it yourself, Im not going to worry too much.

harddrives,

What kind? IDE, SCSI, Fibre channel, Firewire, usb, notebook?

printers,

I see 30+ printers listed on the page.

mice,

48 mice listed, 7 trackballs

keyboards,

125 listed.

network cards,

All Macs come standard with *atleast* a 10/100mbit card. Many come with gigabit ethernet cards and wireless cards.

processors,

There are several cpu upgrades of varying speeds on the site.

ram modules,

Much like hard drives Macs use standard ram, so check crucial.com.

HSF's,

None that I can see, but Im not sure if they use fans.

cdroms,

Any should work. I found 12 IDE cdroms on the one site though.

dvdroms,

Any should work, but I found 6 IDE drives on the one site.

cd burners

8 on the site.

as you can on a PC.

Do you mean x86 machines? If so, I dont know many people that has more than 1 of most of these components in their machine at a time.

But there seems to be a nice selection of most things, video and sound being on the low end. As far as video goes though, they seem to have the big ones, so its not a big deal. There are many more sound cards for the Mac, the sb live was the only one for sale on the site that I found quickly.

Also prove to me how a top of the line Mac is FASTER in a MAJORITY of programs when compared to a top of the line PC.

I never, ever, ever, ever said it was. In fact, I have stated many many times in the thread that Maccs *are* slower. C'mon, read me freaking posts instead of just spouting crap.

Cmon show me some benchmarks,

Much like statistics you can probably find benchmarks to support your theory.

that prove ACROSS THE BOARD that the MAC wins hands down. Show me?

Show me benchmarks that hands down, across the board nVidia's G4 Ti4600(?) beats the Radeon 8500 "ACROSS THE BOARD" and the nVidia chip wins hands down. Got any?

Also, Mac's get the latest technology MONTHS after PC users do.

This helps out in several ways. I personally dont like the "bleeding edge." I prefer to stay a generation behind or so, just because there are a lot less surprises involved. Apple takes their time, but when they bring something in they definitely do it in the right way.

For example, PC users already have the latest wireless 802.11a NIC's, but Mac users are still stuck with Airport (or whatever it's called).

And you think 802.11a is the best in *all* situations? I know its not.

Pc users also have access to the fastest video cards,

Whats the fastest video card out there?

sound cards,

Does a fast sound card make the sound better?

harddrives,

Uhhhh, you dont read well do you?

processors,

Ok.

and RAM.

Granted.

And you say Mac's can run more programs?

Yes, I do.

Can they run more useful programs?

Yep!

I think not, considering how you only have iTunes to play your mp3's.

Ill have to see if I can get mpg321 to compile on my Mac... I havent tried yet. I could use winamp if I wanted to, but why bother?

I mean in Mac's there is either the high end program or the low end program.

Thats true for some things, yeah.

There is no middle ground. For example, for video editing of DVD's you can choose between apple's iDVD (which is for newbs and rather limited) or FINAL CUT PRO.

If I am not a professional, I dont want something increadibly complicated.

Now final cut pro costs $1000, which your midrange users won't spend.

Yeah, its for professionals. You know, those people with jobs.

With all this money you waste on an apple, you could buy at least two faster and cheaper PC's.

When I bought my Mac, it was the best deal out there:
No x86 legacy crap
No x86 problems
Mac OS X (preference, but also its supported on the hardware whereas the OS I would use on the x86 machine is not)
Fairly speedy although not a top of the line thing
light
thin
cheap

The x86 machines I specced cost around $2k. My iBook cost about $1500. It was a good deal for me.

 

[Lucky]

For example, PC users already have the latest wireless 802.11a NIC's, but Mac users are still stuck with Airport (or whatever it's called).

airport is 802.11b compatible. 802.11b provides a MUCH cheaper solution for covering large areas, although there is a hit in speed. Nothign that anything short of video/voice would be a problem for though.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: tk149
Preface: I haven't used a Mac in 10 years. All I know about today's Macs are what I've seen on TV and in this thread. And I saw this HUGE Apple LCD Monitor at CompUSA that I've been lusting after ever since.

For any Mac users: I'm confused. On this thread, I've seen claims that you can custom build your own Mac, including case, CPU, mobo, Hard drives, OS, etc.

How? Can you direct me to a website that can help me?

mobo/cpu(?): ebay.com
hard drive: newegg.com, maxtor.com, ibm.com, fujitsu.com, westerndigital.com, etc
ram: crucial is where I buy most of my ram from
case: where do you buy your cases now?

Also, from reading, it looks like Macs take standard EIDE drives. ATA-??? Standard 4-pin power connector? So can I plug any IBM/Maxtor/Seagate HD in?

Of course!

How about printers and other peripherals? Are they standard interfaces? (Yes, I now know you can use any USB mouse)

Printers use usb dont they?

PC133 SDRAM 168-pin DIMM?

Check out crucial.com

Any AGP Nvidia/ATI/Matrox video card?

You may need Mac specific cards, but all three of those companies make them.

Teach me about the Darkside...

Darkside? Yeah, I guess light and colorful is kinda dark... Or whatever.

So is there a Mac equivalent of the Anandtech FAQ "How to assemble a PC?" A step-by-step idiot-proof guide that I (the better idiot) can follow?