Mac Mini $494

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andypress

Member
Jan 7, 2004
116
0
0
Originally posted by: jagerk
I've used these: $1500 (now, must have been $2000+ then)
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

along with these:
Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) ($1000 now)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) ($3000)

and especially these, the worst computer part I've ever used:
Apple Mouse, One Button Optical ($30)

Consistently, throughout all these machines which I've used for graphical and audio work, movies, Photoshop, et al, the hype is not worth it. These machines are the most price inflated and cost ineffective machines I've had the displeasure to use. They have the worse faults than comparable (in price) Windows machines. Ask any Mac user who's been frustrated with the damn freaking pinwheel which shows your expensive processor is being utilized for some mundane task. In raw speed, yes, it does have it's ass kicked.

I'm not even talking about the discrepancy on paper, that these machines "only" have 1.5 ghz or so tops. The discrepancy is in raw, actual, power, because I'm an AMD user, and AMD has always been playing a catch up game to Intel's clock speed. AMD has always won, though, even though their actual clock speeds were lower than Intel- because of the effective architecture on the chips, with smaller bandwith pipelines allowing more work units to be processed than Intel's processors in the same time frame. Thus, the chips across the board on the PC market from Athlon consistently have lower clock frequencies than Intel chips, yet actually perform better than Intel chips with at least 30% higher clock speeds. It's the damn truth. Which is why, contrary to public opinion, the BEST processor right now is an Athlon processor - currently at a whopping 3800+ public relations speed, which only translates into 2.6 ghz actual clock speed, compared to Intel's highest Prescott processor, the 3.8 ghz actual clock speed. And the AMD chips kicks so much ass hands down - they actually implement 64 bit compatability before "the first 64 bit personal computer in the world - the G5"- it kicks Intel machines asses right now, and is ready for the next generation of 64 bit operating systems. Can you say that for a Mac, about having so much performance?

Hardly. The mac suffers from a parity of speeds, with EITHER Intel or AMD machines. There is no getting around that; either live with the cursed pinwheel, (which is SO damn annoying when you're using a machine touted for it's graphical and user superiority.. yeah right, what you're supposed to buy is the best HARDWARE you can afford- and only recently has actual current graphics cards have appeared for Macs. Either that, or you pay a ludicrous amount for price premium of Mac-compatible graphics cards from either Nvidia or ATi.) or you buy a more expensive Mac. Even then, the most expensive Macs pitifully fall short of the comparably priced Windows machines. And it doesn't matter what kind of mythical software benefits you'll have, you'll still have crappy hardware under the cover of your pretty Mac, which you will never have the opportunity to upgrade, except perhaps user-friendly RAM modules! RAM has nothing to do with anything once you're past a certain level, so that's a moot point anyway.

This same situation has already been shown to a LOT of college students within the past year - since the time Intel came out with the Centrino package for its laptop. There was confusion as to how a chip with "only" 1.3, 1.4 ghz could be equal to or better than Pentium 4 2.8 ghz machines. This is the exact situation AMD had been in, but fortunately for AMD, its supporters know that there is a way for chips running at those speeds to truly shine and repeatedly beat out higher-rated Intel 'equivalents'. Most of the time, the AMD chips were priced ridiculously cheaper than the 'equivalent' Intel chips, too- so an AMD buyer such as myself were in a win-win situation. This is definitely not the case with Mac. I can't even give a benchmark to compare the two systems. Look at the programs which are available for Mac. You get to pay a price premium for those which are actually available, just like everything else Apple sells. And that's the real bottom line, a Mac user who falls into the hype just increases Apple's bottom line. Shrug. You can go ahead now and purchase your Mini mac. I won't be, for the forseeable future.

That's all I have to say about that.

I don't know what the hell you're thinking, but there is no way that that config will run a 30" apple display, with that video card.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: Tegeril
a 32mb 9200 is most definitely a slouch.

Yeah, it should have at least had 64 megs ....but then again maybe Apple games don't demand as much from the hardware??
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: cheapgoose
Originally posted by: BostonYuk
If apple put SVideo and a good sound in this, it could make an awesome home theatre PC!

are you kidding me? s-video? imho, if it's a htpc you want, i wouldn't accept anything short of digital audio and dvi out.

It has DVI out.
 

andypress

Member
Jan 7, 2004
116
0
0
Originally posted by: Chadder007
Originally posted by: cheapgoose
Originally posted by: BostonYuk
If apple put SVideo and a good sound in this, it could make an awesome home theatre PC!

are you kidding me? s-video? imho, if it's a htpc you want, i wouldn't accept anything short of digital audio and dvi out.

It has DVI out.

Also, it has the ability to output compostite and s-vid with a $19 adapter from apple.
 

Zim

Golden Member
Dec 25, 2003
1,043
4
81
This is basically a Mac laptop without a screen or keyboard (or battery).

One thing that strikes me is that anyone who ever even slightly considered using a Mac (even as a 2nd computer) can do so now for the price of an iPod. Personally I could see myself buying one and sticking it on my desk behind my LCD monitor just for curiousity's sake. It's bound to have a knock-on effect on the full Mac range over the next few years as it will dramatically increase the exposure of MacOS.
 

Alex08

Senior member
Mar 23, 2004
203
0
0
the only thing stopping me right now is the ram upgrades as I don't want to void warranty(hopefully there is no seal you have to break) since most likely i'll be getting the applecare, but in no way I will pay apple for that 1gig upgrade, that is horrendous.
 

straubs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
908
0
0
Originally posted by: Athena
This new box may extend Apple's franchise a bit but it's not going to make a big difference in the overall market. I suspect that a lot of buyers will be Windows users who get KVM switches to use with their existing peripherals; and those users are not going to be impressed. I work with some applications that are used on both platforms and as far as I'm concerned, the Mac story is more hype than reality. One thing I've noticed is that whenever some nifty feature appears in a Mac application, It is rapidly incorporated into Windows programs. The reverse is not true -- Apple developers never take the time to incorporate innovations from the Wintel world, the "not invented here" syndrome is too well entrenched. The result is situations like that stupid Apple mouse with no buttons and the Windows mice with 5 programmable buttons.


Please name said applications.

Let us know where we can buy the Expose feature on Windows. I will be the first to buy it. Expose is ridiculously useful.

You're right that Apple has not taken the time to properly incorporate innovations from the Windows world such as gaping security holes ActiveX, BHO's and other virus & spyware entry vectors. 'Tis a shame!
 

straubs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
908
0
0
Originally posted by: nguyendot1
If this were a G5, it'd be hot hot hot... But until then its just an expensive toy like the ipod...only not as portable.

How much did that Full Acrylic case/base and matching UV Fans cost you?

hehe
 

nguyendot1

Senior member
Mar 31, 2003
325
0
0
Originally posted by: straubs
Originally posted by: nguyendot1
If this were a G5, it'd be hot hot hot... But until then its just an expensive toy like the ipod...only not as portable.

How much did that Full Acrylic case/base and matching UV Fans cost you?

hehe

Too much.......... lol like $100. I bought it after I got my settlement check for a city bus t-boning my car and I was still doped up on Lortab and Flexiril.. I blame the meds....hehehe
 

nguyendot1

Senior member
Mar 31, 2003
325
0
0
Originally posted by: andypress
Originally posted by: jagerk
I've used these: $1500 (now, must have been $2000+ then)
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

along with these:
Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) ($1000 now)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) ($3000)

and especially these, the worst computer part I've ever used:
Apple Mouse, One Button Optical ($30)

Consistently, throughout all these machines which I've used for graphical and audio work, movies, Photoshop, et al, the hype is not worth it. These machines are the most price inflated and cost ineffective machines I've had the displeasure to use. They have the worse faults than comparable (in price) Windows machines. Ask any Mac user who's been frustrated with the damn freaking pinwheel which shows your expensive processor is being utilized for some mundane task. In raw speed, yes, it does have it's ass kicked.

I'm not even talking about the discrepancy on paper, that these machines "only" have 1.5 ghz or so tops. The discrepancy is in raw, actual, power, because I'm an AMD user, and AMD has always been playing a catch up game to Intel's clock speed. AMD has always won, though, even though their actual clock speeds were lower than Intel- because of the effective architecture on the chips, with smaller bandwith pipelines allowing more work units to be processed than Intel's processors in the same time frame. Thus, the chips across the board on the PC market from Athlon consistently have lower clock frequencies than Intel chips, yet actually perform better than Intel chips with at least 30% higher clock speeds. It's the damn truth. Which is why, contrary to public opinion, the BEST processor right now is an Athlon processor - currently at a whopping 3800+ public relations speed, which only translates into 2.6 ghz actual clock speed, compared to Intel's highest Prescott processor, the 3.8 ghz actual clock speed. And the AMD chips kicks so much ass hands down - they actually implement 64 bit compatability before "the first 64 bit personal computer in the world - the G5"- it kicks Intel machines asses right now, and is ready for the next generation of 64 bit operating systems. Can you say that for a Mac, about having so much performance?

Hardly. The mac suffers from a parity of speeds, with EITHER Intel or AMD machines. There is no getting around that; either live with the cursed pinwheel, (which is SO damn annoying when you're using a machine touted for it's graphical and user superiority.. yeah right, what you're supposed to buy is the best HARDWARE you can afford- and only recently has actual current graphics cards have appeared for Macs. Either that, or you pay a ludicrous amount for price premium of Mac-compatible graphics cards from either Nvidia or ATi.) or you buy a more expensive Mac. Even then, the most expensive Macs pitifully fall short of the comparably priced Windows machines. And it doesn't matter what kind of mythical software benefits you'll have, you'll still have crappy hardware under the cover of your pretty Mac, which you will never have the opportunity to upgrade, except perhaps user-friendly RAM modules! RAM has nothing to do with anything once you're past a certain level, so that's a moot point anyway.

This same situation has already been shown to a LOT of college students within the past year - since the time Intel came out with the Centrino package for its laptop. There was confusion as to how a chip with "only" 1.3, 1.4 ghz could be equal to or better than Pentium 4 2.8 ghz machines. This is the exact situation AMD had been in, but fortunately for AMD, its supporters know that there is a way for chips running at those speeds to truly shine and repeatedly beat out higher-rated Intel 'equivalents'. Most of the time, the AMD chips were priced ridiculously cheaper than the 'equivalent' Intel chips, too- so an AMD buyer such as myself were in a win-win situation. This is definitely not the case with Mac. I can't even give a benchmark to compare the two systems. Look at the programs which are available for Mac. You get to pay a price premium for those which are actually available, just like everything else Apple sells. And that's the real bottom line, a Mac user who falls into the hype just increases Apple's bottom line. Shrug. You can go ahead now and purchase your Mini mac. I won't be, for the forseeable future.

That's all I have to say about that.

I don't know what the hell you're thinking, but there is no way that that config will run a 30" apple display, with that video card.

Hmmm I didnt even notice that... but yeah... Explain how in the world you got a 30" mac display which REQUIRES dual-link dvi (think 6800 Ultra from mac, or a FireGL/Quadro duallink dvi) to run on that fx5200, which has one dvi at the most, let alone a dual-link one.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I work with a G4 at work (1 GHz, 512 megs DDR ram) using the latest OSX (10.2? I don't remember) and MAN it is REALLY slower than my 2200+ with 512 (which according to people here are supposed to be on the same level). The three main programs I work with are scanning in things via photoshop and having to touch them up a little, using a program called endnote to download journal citations from different things such as Web of Science, and Using Oracle Calander. With photoshop it isn't that bad~ I'm not doing anything near intensive so it works out fine. But Endnote and Oracle Calander are both VERY slow...makes me feel like I'm using a 500Mhz K6-2 or something. I'm always sitting there for 4 seconds after I enter in a new contract into Oracle while waiting for the program to enter TEXT into a freaking addressbook~ End book is equally slow in that there is about a 3 second lag between clicking on a citation and seeing its contents (note: this is AFTER downloading it to the Harddrive, which is 80 gigs). I mean in the end its just text I'm inputting, but the 2.2Ghz Dell Celeron next to it feels...so much faster! And that is a WRONG thing.
sidenot:
Oh, and I find it RIDICOUSLY annoying how oracle calander won't let me tab anywhere. I can type in entries a LOT faster if i could press "tab" rather than hae to move my mouse every single time to the next field...this is the type of things that should just be base for ANY program. If I wanted to right now, I could tab through envery icon in Firefox without touching my mouse~ using the mouse would be faster in this instance...but if i'm entering 2000 contacts for a professor (he is old i might add ) it would be AGES faster if I could type "FIRST NAME" TAB "LAST NAME" TAB , etc. etc. instead of "FIRST NAME" MOVE MOUSE "LAST NAME" MOVE MOUSE....

OSX is pretty to look at and I like it...but the basics have to be nailed down before I can bother to actually use it. I mean like Itunes isn't the most sophistiacted Music player, but i LOVE how it essentially has the basics down pat and a wonderful music library manager, so I use it even if it is a little bloated. I just feel OSX (or maybe this is just an Oracle Calander thing) looks nice first, and then cares about funcionality and speed later~ when functionality and speed should be the important things first.
 

DestruyaUR

Senior member
Jan 23, 2002
869
0
0
Also, the hard drives in Minis are 4200rpm.

This is an internet machine, nothing more, nothing less. Don't even bother getting more than 512MB.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,048
18
81
Originally posted by: magomago
I work with a G4 at work (1 GHz, 512 megs DDR ram) using the latest OSX (10.2? I don't remember) and MAN it is REALLY slower than my 2200+ with 512 (which according to people here are supposed to be on the same level). The three main programs I work with are scanning in things via photoshop and having to touch them up a little, using a program called endnote to download journal citations from different things such as Web of Science, and Using Oracle Calander. With photoshop it isn't that bad~ I'm not doing anything near intensive so it works out fine. But Endnote and Oracle Calander are both VERY slow...makes me feel like I'm using a 500Mhz K6-2 or something. I'm always sitting there for 4 seconds after I enter in a new contract into Oracle while waiting for the program to enter TEXT into a freaking addressbook~ End book is equally slow in that there is about a 3 second lag between clicking on a citation and seeing its contents (note: this is AFTER downloading it to the Harddrive, which is 80 gigs). I mean in the end its just text I'm inputting, but the 2.2Ghz Dell Celeron next to it feels...so much faster! And that is a WRONG thing.
sidenot:
Oh, and I find it RIDICOUSLY annoying how oracle calander won't let me tab anywhere. I can type in entries a LOT faster if i could press "tab" rather than hae to move my mouse every single time to the next field...this is the type of things that should just be base for ANY program. If I wanted to right now, I could tab through envery icon in Firefox without touching my mouse~ using the mouse would be faster in this instance...but if i'm entering 2000 contacts for a professor (he is old i might add ) it would be AGES faster if I could type "FIRST NAME" TAB "LAST NAME" TAB , etc. etc. instead of "FIRST NAME" MOVE MOUSE "LAST NAME" MOVE MOUSE....

OSX is pretty to look at and I like it...but the basics have to be nailed down before I can bother to actually use it. I mean like Itunes isn't the most sophistiacted Music player, but i LOVE how it essentially has the basics down pat and a wonderful music library manager, so I use it even if it is a little bloated. I just feel OSX (or maybe this is just an Oracle Calander thing) looks nice first, and then cares about funcionality and speed later~ when functionality and speed should be the important things first.

If you arent using 10.3, that is part of the problem. 10.3 on my Dad's 450Mhz G4 feels good.
 

jagerk

Junior Member
Dec 8, 2004
15
0
0
Perhaps I made an error in recollection. It was the media room in CMU's art building with the one largish display, perhaps it was a regular flat plasma. The rest of the workstations have Korg synthesizers and the afore mentioned Apple 20" ish, LCD's. What pieces of crashing junk and observe the backlight problem (endemic to all LCD's in general though): http://homepage.mac.com/wysz/Studio_Display/ . Those workstations, and working with the lampshade G4's? have turned me off on them, they're not so as great as they're hyped to be.
 

batmanuel

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2003
2,144
0
0
Originally posted by: nguyendot1
Hmmm I didnt even notice that... but yeah... Explain how in the world you got a 30" mac display which REQUIRES dual-link dvi (think 6800 Ultra from mac, or a FireGL/Quadro duallink dvi) to run on that fx5200, which has one dvi at the most, let alone a dual-link one.

The 30" Cinema Display is will RUN, as my local Fry's is more than happy to demonstrate, it just looks like a pixellated piece of crap with the FX 5200 in the G5 they hooked it up to because Fry's corporate didn't realize they would need to hook them up with a 6800DDL if they were going to put that monitor on display.
 

Yo2

Golden Member
Jun 12, 2001
1,456
0
0
When are these actually shipping? As of yesterday they had them in the appl.com mac store as shipping now but if you order one they promise it in 3-4 weeks
 

musclecarman1

Junior Member
Nov 27, 2004
24
0
0
Amazon.com is now shipping them. I checked last night. If you don't mind paying taxes I'm sure most Apple stores have them in stock. I went to mine yesterday and seen the mac mini there.
 
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