Mac Mini

[konakona]

not sure what you are trying to prove, the machine you built is ugly, huge, loud and definetly not elegant. it doesn't come out of box and you have to spend hours buying, shopping, troubleshooting, and putting it together. and thats assuming u are a nerd whos spent the requisite hours researching said parts and manuals and guides so u know what to buy and how to build already. and its still a loud turd. the macs are damn quiet, system managed fan speeds etc.

if you think macs look pretty, good for you i think mine looks a lot better. how can you tell if its ugly even without taking a look at it? you make it sound like it is given macs somehow should look better than any computer case out there. notice not everyone uses dell and i dont really dig their looks either. huge? it fits fine under the desk, and i would have no trouble fitting it in the living room if i had to. again, not everyone is equally skilled at space management so YMMV there. elegant is what mac mini is NOT when you try to add more components to turn it PVR recording capable from what i have read. that i could be wrong about however, since it isnt from my hands-on experienece. nonetheless, my case looks very stylish and everyone i have shown it to so far commended on it. i dont know if you take pleasure calling people 'nerds' when they have enough brainpower to build up something as simple as lego blocks. perhaps its a convinient way to rationalize incompetence to handle anything beyond a tv remote. my computer is just as quite as those i-macs at school, so i really dunno what you are smoking. can we share some of that stuff now? what do you know about my computer anyhow?

and i notice u left out software costs of course...
the mac mini and its os/apps bundle help make it a value.

i stated earlier i get free win XP pro license thru school, and most everyone can re-activated their copies of Xp by giving a call to MS tech support. well, lets see :
gomplayer : free
foobar2k : free
these two are more than enough to handle any kind of media files without having to purchase a software. there isnt a single piece of commonly used software that does not have a freeware replacement for that matter, correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Fenixgoon]

number of times my dad has reinstalled OSX due to problems: 5
number of times i've reinstalled XP/2k due to failure: 0

GG apple.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
number of times my dad has reinstalled OSX due to problems: 5
number of times i've reinstalled XP/2k due to failure: 0

GG apple.

then your dad is an idiot...

 

[Wheatmaster]

look if you don't like apple, that's find. but everyone has their own opinion, even if it's pro-apple. so back off.

 

[Ornery]

Does that apply to dartworth as well?

Seems like pro-apple fanbois are completely irrational when it comes to form following function. They sound like women gushing over the latest fashion, who turn into ragging bitches when price or practicality is mentioned.

 

[0roo0roo]

if you think macs look pretty, good for you i think mine looks a lot better. how can you tell if its ugly even without taking a look at it? you make it sound like it is given macs somehow should look better than any computer case out there. notice not everyone uses dell and i dont really dig their looks either. huge? it fits fine under the desk, and i would have no trouble fitting it in the living room if i had to. again, not everyone is equally skilled at space management so YMMV there. elegant is what mac mini is NOT when you try to add more components to turn it PVR recording capable from what i have read. that i could be wrong about however, since it isnt from my hands-on experienece. nonetheless, my case looks very stylish and everyone i have shown it to so far commended on it. i dont know if you take pleasure calling people 'nerds' when they have enough brainpower to build up something as simple as lego blocks. perhaps its a convinient way to rationalize incompetence to handle anything beyond a tv remote. my computer is just as quite as those i-macs at school, so i really dunno what you are smoking. can we share some of that stuff now? what do you know about my computer anyhow?

i guess you are just not self aware. a computer is an appliance. or atleast it should be. unecessary complexity is not a virtue for most people who really couldn't care less if it can be upgraded to insanity. as for your belief that your cheap components are quiet as a new mac(old macs were louder)~25db, you are truely deluded..or ignorant.


and free copies of xp because you are a student? you really do like comparing apples to oranges to make your arguements i guess.

 

[konakona]

i guess you are just not self aware. a computer is an appliance. or atleast it should be. unecessary complexity is not a virtue for most people who really couldn't care less if it can be upgraded to insanity. as for your belief that your cheap components are quiet as a new mac(old macs were louder)~25db, you are truely deluded..or ignorant.
yes computer is an appliance, i totally agree. i guess you are just not very careful when it comes to jumping into a 3 page long thread. since you seem to have a poor grip on reading, let me break it down to you in plain and simple; my points were :
1) apple is doing the right thing from the business standpoint, and this thing will fit idiots with money to blow just fine.
2) as for those people who know enough, this is ho-hum to poor at its very best (as they should know)
3) i fail to see why an average joe would need this over a dvd player when it costs so much more and only adds more hassle. how is this going to help people just trying to watch their movies?
care to quit beating around the bush and start answering my question?

again, i didnt just say "oh this sux", dont confuse me with the OP. what i did say was mac mini might sell well, but really is nothing so innovative or unique to deserve so much attention. the only reason i said that is since some of these enthusiasts displayed unsual interest in the mac minis, and i fail to see why. never i mentioned average joe would not want it; however, now that you brought it up, i pointed out this would serve him no better than a feature-rich dvd player out now.

cheap components? emu-1212m is? hardly. i just believe in optimizing things for better use of resources, i dont need a athlon 64 or nforce4 for a HTPC/music computer. at least now i know for sure someone is getting real ticked off and resorting to name callings its astonishing how mere criticism on a poorly developed piece of hardware could bring out so much animosity; i dont remember calling you ignorant, deluded, not self aware or whatever. can we keep this at a professional level, okay?

and free copies of xp because you are a student? you really do like comparing apples to oranges to make your arguements i guess.

why do you conviniently ignore the part about re-activating windows? the mac mini is only applicable when the person ALREADY has keyboard/monitor etc, so it is HIGHLY likely he has a copy of windows he could reactivate. hell, it doesnt even have to be xp, even 98 would work for a basic HTPC what mac mini would become.

 

[Lorn]

It all comes down to Asian food, IMO.

Macs = Japanese food. Tastes great, designed well, classy. It just tastes good. But you pay for it.
PCs = Chinese food. Tastes good, sloppy, messy, comes in a cardboard box. Doesn't cost much.

That's how I see it.

 

[konakona]

DaveSimmons, i guess you are on the same boat as 0roo0roo.

the "POS" VanillaH claims it is.

um... okay. i hope you people did ok on the reading comprehension part of your SAT.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: VanillaH
DaveSimmons, i guess you are on the same boat as 0roo0roo.

the "POS" VanillaH claims it is.

um... okay. i hope you people did ok on the reading comprehension part of your SAT.

Sorry about that -- I did confuse you for a moment with the OP, your description of the mini was actually:
"if $499 is not a lot for a grossly underpowered castrated machine then what is?"

But your alternative cost more, was in kit form, needed rebates, and didn't include an OS. It was more powerful though.

I don't see the mac mini as being a great HTPC either, except maybe the $600 version. And for that I'd agree with you that a DVD player or now a recorder is a better choice for most people.

However, for Grandma's first computer, the mini is a better choice than your homebuilt rig and probably the $500 Dell alternative as well.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Does that apply to dartworth as well?

Seems like pro-apple fanbois are completely irrational when it comes to form following function. They sound like women gushing over the latest fashion, who turn into ragging bitches when price or practicality is mentioned.

Dont you think you are acting like a "pro PC fanboi"?

 

[Ornery]

Well, I certainly didn't call anybody's parent an idiot!

I'm all about 'bang for the buck'. One of AnandTech's busiest forums is Hot Deals. That's pretty much what Anand started this site for. Giving people the info to make smart decisions in their PC component purchases.

Apple has been so overcharging for their hardware for so long, that $500.00 for this display-less, keyboard-less, notebook looks like some kind of deal in comparison!

 

[cmdrmoocow]

This is the perfect solution for Grandma who wants to check her email and go online every now and again. This is not to replace the x86's that you can all build and support, it's for the people whose number one cost of a computer is simply support.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Well, I certainly didn't call anybody's parent an idiot!

I'm all about 'bang for the buck'. One of AnandTech's busiest forums is Hot Deals. That's pretty much what Anand started this site for. Giving people the info to make smart decisions in their PC component purchases.

Apple has been so overcharging for their hardware for so long, that $500.00 for this display-less, keyboard-less, notebook looks like some kind of deal in comparison!

People say that 500 dollars for the mini is a deal because its the cheapest computer Apple has ever produced, at least thats what I think. I could be wrong.

Anyways, calling someones dad an idiot was uncalled for. But showing how many times Fenixgoon's dad had to reinstall OS X "due to problems" is just plain silly. Is this some way to make Macs look bad?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: VanillaH
DaveSimmons, i guess you are on the same boat as 0roo0roo.

the "POS" VanillaH claims it is.

um... okay. i hope you people did ok on the reading comprehension part of your SAT.

Sorry about that -- I did confuse you for a moment with the OP, your description of the mini was actually:
"if $499 is not a lot for a grossly underpowered castrated machine then what is?"

But your alternative cost more, was in kit form, needed rebates, and didn't include an OS. It was more powerful though.

I don't see the mac mini as being a great HTPC either, except maybe the $600 version. And for that I'd agree with you that a DVD player or now a recorder is a better choice for most people.

However, for Grandma's first computer, the mini is a better choice than your homebuilt rig and probably the $500 Dell alternative as well.

ok, the comment you are quoting me on is directed at those who seem to be pretty handy with computers and all, but still would consider getting a mac mini since its price range is attractive. i believe you could do the same for less, or better for the same amonut of money. it maybe small, but still luggable at best which defeats the whole purpose imo. the example i have given was perhaps with a fair bit of exaggeration; however, even integrated video (or one of those $30ish r300 based ati cards) and audio would be on par with mac mini, taking a whopping $175+$101=$276 off from my mean HTPC rig

one thing i never said in this thread is that i recommend Grandma to build a computer on her own for her first time; on the contrary, i mentioned these things would save some trouble for us technologically knowedgeable people, albeit in somewhat sarcastic manner.

appology accepted, and i appologize for being cynical.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
It all comes down to Asian food, IMO.

Macs = Japanese food. Tastes great, designed well, classy. It just tastes good. But you pay for it.
PCs = Chinese food. Tastes good, sloppy, messy, comes in a cardboard box. Doesn't cost much.

That's how I see it.

speaking of analogies, i would equate PCs with good old trinitrons and these mac minis with LCDs. there is no doubt the former leads in sheer performance (colors are better on CRTs and not just in photoshop, like it or not) and price/performance. the latter are 'supposed to be' more ergonomical, less space-intensive and have a 'coolness factor'. of course i too would feel somewhat defensive if i made a dubious purchase of an expensive product without a clear down-to-earth adavantage, and someone questioned the logic in that.

 

[xadawgx]

Originally posted by: VanillaH

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
It all comes down to Asian food, IMO.

Macs = Japanese food. Tastes great, designed well, classy. It just tastes good. But you pay for it.
PCs = Chinese food. Tastes good, sloppy, messy, comes in a cardboard box. Doesn't cost much.

That's how I see it.

speaking of analogies, i would equate PCs with good old trinitrons and these mac minis with LCDs. there is no doubt the former leads in sheer performance (colors are better on CRTs and not just in photoshop, like it or not) and price/performance. the latter are 'supposed to be' more ergonomical, less space-intensive and have a 'coolness factor'. of course i too would feel somewhat defensive if i made a dubious purchase of an expensive product without a clear down-to-earth adavantage, and someone questioned the logic in that.

Perhaps you didn't pick the best analogy. Maybe CRTs have slightly better color in that black looks black and not charcoal like on an LCD but other than that I think LCDs colors are more vivid. Not only that but they have a crisper brighter image image thats easier on the eyes, use less power, take up less space, weigh less...better in virtually every respect....even ghosting is no longer an issue on new models. The only reason left I can see buying a CRT is if you need a huge screen for less money. The Mac Mini compared to a basic bargain PC is far and away better much like the LCD is to the CRT. Not to say the same holds true against a higher end PC and for those who game, because then PCs seriously wipe the floor with Macs in that respect, but thats nothing new. Like the LCD there is a premium for the Mac Mini, but its much less than previous macs and if you take the OS and software included, its just about even. It's more than a cool factor too, the Mini is un obtrusive can fit anywhere, virtually silent and will do 99 percent of the average users tasks all without having to worry about system maintenance to the same degree a windows machine would involve. No virus scans, no spyware scans, no defragging.... Course if you want to fire up that copy of Doom3 youre SOL, but that isnt the Mac Mini or any Macs purpose. Windows machines are best for overall compatability and lowest cost of ownership but Macs and especially the Mini are far more elegant. If I didnt game on occasion I would be picking up one instead of building my new Athlon 64 SFF. I am a windows power user, and have been using it since Windows 95 days, and I hold various certifications so for me keeping up system maintenance on a PC is no big deal but for the average user it can be. Personally I am very impressed with Windows XP , it has taken great strides to addressing Windows shortcomings but you have to admit it still isnt as slick an OS for every day use. All in all, with the advent of the Mini, Macs are a better choice than say a Dell PC for the average non power user IMO. Simple and effective, and as we all know simplicity has its virtues.

 

[CraigRT]

all I am going to say is I hate apple as a whole.

I find the 1 button mouse offensive.

and the price of most of the stuff also.

 

I'm going to buy a macmini just so I can make a video of me destroying it in on a public street.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'm going to buy a macmini just so I can make a video of me destroying it in on a public street.

sweet!
please do.

if I can get my hands on a set of Altezza tail lights (prob. for a civic) I will do the same thing, and post it on all car message boards.

DAMN YOU TOYOTA FOR STARTING THIS GAY TREND!

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'm going to buy a macmini just so I can make a video of me destroying it in on a public street.

DriverHeaven is thataway, buster!

 

[konakona]

I think LCDs colors are more vivid. Not only that but they have a crisper brighter image image thats easier on the eyes, use less power, take up less space, weigh less...better in virtually every respect....even ghosting is no longer an issue on new models.

i am not going to argue against you on that since you clearly expressed that is just matter of opinion. i see it differently comparing my gateway vx1120 against dell 2001FPs at school, and my roomates have similar observations : the gateway is crisp enough to the point where its indistinguishable (maybe its the matrox p650), and i use it for +10 hours a day without any eye strain to speak of. all those other reasons you list are insignificant in my book - power consumption isnt that great of a deal when you can afford an expensive LCD, space is non-issue when i can put it on my tiny desk just fine all the while maintaining an adequte distance from the screen (its a 22'', mind you).

All in all, with the advent of the Mini, Macs are a better choice than say a Dell PC for the average non power user IMO. Simple and effective, and as we all know simplicity has its virtues.

the only problem in that is, it is assumed the person buying these things already has spare computer parts lying around. how many 'non-geek' average joes buy parts seperately? since mac mini is a minimalist approach in terms of performance, 'upgrading' to a mac mini doesnt really make sense either. i seriously doubt someone incompetent to maintain a basic HTPC would require a secondary computer more so than a dvd player. its his choice to pick where to spend there money, so i wouldnt blame him... but basically he would be wasting his money on something he really doesnt need, if you must generalize. and of course those who can manage their computers at ease, mac mini doesnt offer much except for the ability to run OSX. you guys keep saying the HTPC doesnt need to be a panacea that could run games and do it all; then why would it need a alledgedely better OS to do just simple tasks? after all, you make it sound like a HTPC is nothing more than a glorified dvd player in which case you would really wanna opt for a cheaper and easier to use alternative.

Personally I am very impressed with Windows XP , it has taken great strides to addressing Windows shortcomings but you have to admit it still isnt as slick an OS for every day use.

glad you are liking it, but imo its just another windowed NT based OS, theme support and (relatively) quicker service pack realses being the main difference.

 

[Baked]

I'll take a Mac anytime as long as I don't have to pay for it. And for that very reason, I have a G5 Dual 2.0, 2GB RAM, 20" Cinema. I'll take a Mac Mini w/ an iSight if they're free. Get a pair of Mac Minis, 20" Cinemas, iSights. Great for video chat.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Wow, I dont hate a computer (or company) enough to just want to destroy its product.

 

[Wightout]

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050120.html