Mac VS. PC

[barnett25]

Originally posted by: malak

I don't think that's a good comparison. A user can easily go from windows 95 to windows XP, the biggest change is how stable it is. Going from windows xp to OS X is completely different. Also, lack of virii or spyware isn't an issue for people who know what they are doing, like myself. I get no virii or spyware ever on my machines. I don't do anything special, don't even regularly run spybot, adaware, or even an AV. Every now and then(like once every 3 weeks) I scan, but it's always clean. Using windows doesn't make me vulnerable, improper computer usage makes people vulnerable. There are still virii for anything from phones to macs. Just a matter of going out of your way to be vulnerable. Ignorant people do this all the time!

I have seen many OS's freeze, from novell to windows. But XP is extremely stable, I haven't gotten a BSOD yet, not even a freeze up.

The lack of viruses might not matter to you and me, but what percentage of computer users do have problems with viruses and spyware. I agree that XP is stable, but I like OS X for more than just stability. It is easier to get things done, and multi tasks better than any Windows computer I've ever used. For a power user, the choice between Windows and Mac is kind of a toss-up. With Windows you can play games, find software easier, and everyone else uses it. With a Mac you get a more advanced OS, no viruses (no anti-virus software slowing you computer down), and the iLife software. Thats why I have both. I use my A64 with Windows XP for games and PC only software. I use my Mac for everything else.

But for the average computer user, a Mac is a much better choice. Do you not have relatives who constantly call you about problems they are having with thier PC? From what I've seen, most people do. Those are the people that should get a Mac, or at least seriously consider it.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Dennis Travis
Malak, You are lucky but XP is a very stable OS but as even Anand says, it does lock from time to time. Anand also stated OSX locks less. I have never had OSX Lock. Never. XP a very few times. Very Few. When I say LOCK I mean totally frozen and it will not after say 1-2 minutes come out of it.

His compairson was not compairing OSX to XP. He was saying OSX to OS9 is like the switch from 95/98 to XP. I agree as I have gone both routes. OS9 and below were like 95 with no flat page memory, all shared memory, Non Premptive Multitasking. I can not go back to 95/98 on the PC and can't go back to OS9 on the Mac either!

Oh, I can go back to windows 2k. It's still as good as ever. In fact for some usage I prefer 2k.

No, he compared OS X to Windows XP, reread the quote. Personally, I never liked the mac gui. I was on macs from kindergarten to senior year in high school. But after that, I never went back. I like windows much more. Obviously lockups are going to be an individual case, but like I said. I've seen every OS lockup, just depends on the user.

I would never recommend a family friend to switch OS. I'd get even more phone calls, and I wouldn't be able to answer all their questions as I don't regularly use any other OS anymore. As long as they use windows, I can help them. But I actually don't have to help them much. I've got appropriate software running to protect them when they do stupid things now.

 

[Baked]

Just buy both. Dual G5 + OSX and A64 + WinXP SP2.

 

[excalibur313]

The thing with macs is that you spend more money but since apple controls all the hardware the operating system works really well and it fully takes advantage of everything the hardware has to offer. They definitely aren't as cheap but they really stand behind everything they make and i've found it is much more stable with fewer problems than windows (yes the fact it uses unix has a lot to do with it) also I don't get viruses, pop ups, junk mail, or trojans and there aren't as many times where I try and do something but because of buggy software i can't. Macs also have a longer shelf life....macs from 1997...yes thats right when 400mhz processors hit the pc world, still can run word and browsing easily and each new update or version upgrade to os x makes it faster than it was before which is something windows doesn't stress as much.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Dennis Travis
Amol, If you check Ebay sometimes you can get a G4 Tower cheep and later expand it a bit but it would get you started trying OSX.

Thin Lizzy, Is your 400Mhz G4 the Sawtooth model with the AGP Slot? If so I just wanted to warn you, it's an AGP 2x slot so whatever card you do get be sure it will work with AGP 2x. Most of the higher Radeons are AGP 4 and even 8 and will not work in an AGP2x slot due to different AGP voitages. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of that as you can take out the card and or the motherboard! They say an 8500 Radeon works well and would give the 400 quite a boost.

Hi Dennis,

My G4 is the Sawtooth with the AGP Slot. I was looking at the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition, and it works with both 4x and 2x, according to ATI.

The ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition, is only compatible with AGP 8x.

I was looking at the 8500, but I am one of those people who likes the high end stuff.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: malak
I'd put it this way. If a mac can be better than my PC in any way, it's nothing important to me. In every way I use my PC, it's faster and better than a mac.

What is it that you do? You also say your computer has never locked, do you actually do anything wiyth it aside from what you mainly use it for?

Most people that build a PC do anything from html, games, xvid compression, photoshop, to dvd burning and card makeing. Though XP is very stable, you are simply lucky, and OS X is more stable. Its just a general truth.

 

[Dennis Travis]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: Dennis Travis
Thin Lizzy, Is your 400Mhz G4 the Sawtooth model with the AGP Slot? If so I just wanted to warn you, it's an AGP 2x slot so whatever card you do get be sure it will work with AGP 2x. Most of the higher Radeons are AGP 4 and even 8 and will not work in an AGP2x slot due to different AGP voitages. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of that as you can take out the card and or the motherboard! They say an 8500 Radeon works well and would give the 400 quite a boost.

Hi Dennis,

My G4 is the Sawtooth with the AGP Slot. I was looking at the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition, and it works with both 4x and 2x, according to ATI.

The ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition, is only compatible with AGP 8x.

I was looking at the 8500, but I am one of those people who likes the high end stuff.

Yeah same here but I was figuring since most of the High End ATI cards for the PC were 4 & 8 X only I did not think to check the Mac versions. Thanks for pointing that out. Will be helpfull when upgrading my Sawtooth 500 down the line. I want the Mini first though!

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Dennis Travis

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: Dennis Travis
Thin Lizzy, Is your 400Mhz G4 the Sawtooth model with the AGP Slot? If so I just wanted to warn you, it's an AGP 2x slot so whatever card you do get be sure it will work with AGP 2x. Most of the higher Radeons are AGP 4 and even 8 and will not work in an AGP2x slot due to different AGP voitages. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of that as you can take out the card and or the motherboard! They say an 8500 Radeon works well and would give the 400 quite a boost.

Hi Dennis,

My G4 is the Sawtooth with the AGP Slot. I was looking at the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition, and it works with both 4x and 2x, according to ATI.

The ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition, is only compatible with AGP 8x.

I was looking at the 8500, but I am one of those people who likes the high end stuff.

Yeah same here but I was figuring since most of the High End ATI cards for the PC were 4 & 8 X only I did not think to check the Mac versions. Thanks for pointing that out. Will be helpfull when upgrading my Sawtooth 500 down the line. I want the Mini first though!

Exactly what I thought at first. But there is one problem that is making me kind of avoid the Radeon 9800 Pro. ATI recommends a 300 watt Power Supply. The Power Supply found in the Power Mac G4 is only a 237 watt power supply, I believe.

From ATI: RADEON® 9800 PRO MAC EDITION requires connection to your computer?s internal power supply for operation. ATI recommends a 300-Watt power supply or greater to ensure normal system operation where a number of other internal devices are installed.

I then started looking at the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. This card is an OEM card. ATI doesnt sell this card off their site, nor can you order it from them. In order to get a hold of this card, you have to contact Apple to get one. I think I might just do that. The 9700 is fairly cheap too.

 

[Malak]

I was using a 9700 Pro up until yesterday. It's still a solid card and I would recommend it.

Also in the case of PSU, ATI recommends a 300w PSU, but if you have a quality 237w PSU(odd number), then it should be fine I think. Better safe than sorry though.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

How much did you pay for your 9700? I might call up Apple sometime this week or next week and maybe place an order for one. I have heard lots of good things about this card.

 

[ArmenK]

PC fo life

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
How much did you pay for your 9700? I might call up Apple sometime this week or next week and maybe place an order for one. I have heard lots of good things about this card.

Oh you don't want to know how much I paid for it, I got it like a month after they were released. When I buy new video cards, I buy them fresh off the assembly line. Heck, the one I've upgraded to isn't available in stores yet :/

 

[halfadder]

Chevy Silverado1500. Ford F150. Dodge Ram 1500.

Mac vs PC. What's the difference? You can run Quicken on both, you can do word processing, surf the web, etc etc etc.

I have a house full of PCs and and one Mac, a PowerBook G4. I like both. Windows XP is nice, Mac OS X is nice. They're different worlds, but they're both fun to use for a computer geek like me.

If I had to buy just one type of comptuer for myself, it would be PC. But if I was buying a computer for my Uncle, it would probably be a Mac.

 

[Android8675]

Mac's are nice if you just want a good system that'll stand the test of time, if you wanna do latest cutting edge every 3 months, get a PC, easier to upgrade. If you're a geek and love to take things apart and put em back together.... PC.

If you just want a computer that's gonna last you a good long time, well good name brand PCs do exist now a days, get a Dell or something.

As i'm sure it's been said on this long thread, buy what you think is best for you. Find someone who knows macs, sit down with them, have them go through their system and demo what they like/dislike. Then do the same on the PC.

I own several PCs and an iMac, I like both. I have my eye on a Mac mini now thanks to a recent post around here.

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
2. Speed. PCs will always beat the mac, yes, even you diehard mac fans who say Photoshop, quark, et al...all run WAY faster on a PC.

Ehh, depends. I don't know about Quark (aside from Newspapers, who uses Quark anyway?) but I know that in the latest round of PSbench scores, a dual 2.5 GHz G5 was slightly faster than a dual 2.4 GHz Opteron in Photoshop. There are some links to this in some of the other Mac vs PC threads.
But bang for the buck, a PC is a **FAR** better deal. You can buy a dual Opteron motherboard and dual 2.4 GHz Opterons for about $1900. A case, gfx card, ram, and drives doesn't add much to that cost. Even with the best educational discount, the entry level dual 2.5 GHz G5 is still $2600.

I like both Windows XP and Mac OS X. I enjoy using both of them, but PCs are so cheap and so common that I will never go pure Mac. I will always have at least one (or six) PCs. I sure love my PowerBook, though.

 

[barnett25]

Originally posted by: Android8675
... if you wanna do latest cutting edge every 3 months, get a PC, easier to upgrade.

One of the things I like about Macs is that they have more cutting edge technology in their OS. Tiger, coming out this year, will have more advanced features than Longhorn will, from what I can tell. Call me a geek, but I like getting a whole slew of new OS features every year. Although Apple has said they are going to slow the pace of their OS development.

A hardware junky would be better off with a PC, but I really don't see the point in constantly upgrading the same old wore out computer, when it's still never going to be as fast as a current system.

 

[hopejr]

Originally posted by: biostud
I don't know if it's just because I haven't found a way and because I'm to used to windows, but not beeing able to tab between windows is very annoying.

You can do that, simply by pressing cmd+tab for tabbing between apps, and cmd+` (that's grave accent on the tilde ~ key) for tabbing between windows in the current app. BTW, cmd is the apple key.

I've noticed a few misconceptions about macs from the comments made by PC-only or PC-now and mac-years-ago people on this thread (which I have found very enlightening). Before I address these misconceptions, I will just say that I'm a dual user, and know the ins and outs of all versions of Windows (yes, I have used every single one extensively from a power user/sys admin/development perspective, even version 1 ) and I also know a hell of a lot about System Software 7.5.5 up to Mac OS X.
Misconception #1:
OS X must be crap like previous Mac OS's and System Software, because it's Mac and they're all based on each other.
The truth
This isn't true, because OS X is not based on previous OS's at all. The previous Mac OS and System Software versions were based on System Software 1.0 (I think that was it's version). However, OS X is based on FreeBSD and NextStep. In other words, OS X is actually Unix with a pretty GUI on top of it. It is possible to get the UNIX part without the GUI for x86, and it's called Darwin. It doesn't suffer from the problems of previous Mac OS or System Software. Oh, also, OS X is not even close to the software running on an Apple II.

Misconception #2:
All mac users like macs because they know nothing about PC's
The truth
I know lots of Dual users, who use PC's and Macs. I'm one too. I prefer macs though as it is different, and I find using them more efficient, and I'm much more productive. No need to play around with maintenance every week (or even month) either.

Misconception #3:
Windows XP is better because it's more stable than OS X (i.e. never seen a BSoD but OS X freezes more)
The truth
Windows XP is very stable, but I've seen it BSoD heaps of times. But I've never seen OS X freeze on me. However, this is not to say it doesn't. Both OS's are extremely stable and both do crash and burn, but OS X has an advantage due to it's UNIX roots.

Misconception #4:
OS X has no viruses (this is a misconception of many Mac users)
The Truth
OS X has 2 known viruses (well, 2 that I know of). One is hidden in an MP3 file and is hard to find, and the other one I think is just a shell script.

Misconception #5:
I'm a Windows user and never have problems with viruses, because I'm careful. I never have to bother with AV or spyware/adware removers. So I see no advantage with a Mac.
The truth
I'm sorry, but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc. So this argument is pointless.

Misconception #6:
I'm not going to get a mac for relatives and friends who already use Windows, because they'll be calling me for help, but I'll be clueless and have no idea how to help.
The truth
OS X is not hard to learn to use. It took me a day to get used to it after years of using Windows. If you're a power user, you'd pick it up quickly and be able to actually help others with no problem. Most of my relatives still ask me how to do basic things on Windows, even after many years of using it.

Misconception #7:
Apple only makes iMacs (or every apple computer is an iMac or Macintosh makes iMacs)
The truth
Apple is the company (not Macintosh), and iMacs are one of many computers made by them.

Misconception #8:
Macs lose their value just like PC's do
The truth
Look on ebay, you'll see lots of macs that are older and still have held their value.

Misconception #9:
No point getting a mac, you can't upgrade them
The truth
While true in a way, there is a number of macs these days that are user upgradable. These are iMac G5 and PowerMac G5. All the others (except the Mac mini, although it's doable) can have airport cards and extra memory installed very easily. But, to the mac users that say macs are just as upgradable as PC's: wake up! It's not true! PC's are easier and more readily upgradeable. However, I don't bother doing that and am more likely to buy a new computer rather than upgrade. but that's just me.

Misconception #10:
Macs are slow as hell
The truth
Macs can be slow, but not as slow as some people say. I've heard someone compare them with 286's. That's ridiculous. Even comparing with Pentium 2's is stupid. Stock macs can be slower than the average PC, but in my experience, adding more memory can increase the performance significantly. My iBook G4 GHz had only 256MB RAM, and it chugged with more than 8 programs running. It started to get like a 1.6GHz Celeron. But, when I knocked it up to 512MB RAM, the thing started performing as well as my old P4-M 2.2GHz with the same amount of RAM. Imagine if I added even more!

Misconception #11:
Macs are only good for design
The truth
Macs have found a new use in development. They are nice machines to do development on. I know, coz I do it. I've done development on all types of systems (Windows, DOS, Linux) and much rather it on OS X. XCode is an excellent IDE to use. In fact, I know quite a number of developers for *n?x that are switching.

I think this will do for my misconception list for now. I'll add some more in another post later if I feel the urge .
Feel free to pick this list apart, PC and Mac users alike.

One last thing I'd like to say. Although I've found this thread insightful and quite a good read, I still would like to hear PC users say what they don't like about macs instead of comments from some like "PC's for life" and nothing else. I know I'm not the OP, but I still would like to hear.

Thanks everyone

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Thanks for that post hopejr! I hope it clears some "issues" out.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: hopejr
Misconception #5:
I'm a Windows user and never have problems with viruses, because I'm careful. I never have to bother with AV or spyware/adware removers. So I see no advantage with a Mac.
The truth
I'm sorry, but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc. So this argument is pointless.

It's not pointless, it's the reason why I haven't switched. I didn't say this was a valid point for anyone else, just me. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Switching to a mac would break it. My point of being safe was a matter of a response to point people always make about windows being unsafe. It's unsafe because people are unsafe, not because it's totally vulnerable. If I can do everything I need to do without running a thousand protective programs like some people here do, then anyone can.

Misconception #6:
I'm not going to get a mac for relatives and friends who already use Windows, because they'll be calling me for help, but I'll be clueless and have no idea how to help.
The truth
OS X is not hard to learn to use. It took me a day to get used to it after years of using Windows. If you're a power user, you'd pick it up quickly and be able to actually help others with no problem. Most of my relatives still ask me how to do basic things on Windows, even after many years of using it.

A power user that doesn't have a mac can't learn it quickly. This is not the truth. And it wasn't a misconception. This, and several of your other responses, seem to be totally biased on your own experience. You need to understand that the choices here are totally based on an individual's experience. For me, I wouldn't be touching a mac on a daily basis. Heck, I maybe get one call a month from relatives and friends about PC's. But it's usually from my grandma who can barely figure out windows, switching to an entirely different system would never work.

Misconception #10:
Macs are slow as hell
The truth
Macs can be slow, but not as slow as some people say. I've heard someone compare them with 286's. That's ridiculous. Even comparing with Pentium 2's is stupid. Stock macs can be slower than the average PC, but in my experience, adding more memory can increase the performance significantly. My iBook G4 GHz had only 256MB RAM, and it chugged with more than 8 programs running. It started to get like a 1.6GHz Celeron. But, when I knocked it up to 512MB RAM, the thing started performing as well as my old P4-M 2.2GHz with the same amount of RAM. Imagine if I added even more!

Benchmarks I've seen show that the true misconception was that many mac users believe it's still faster for photo and video editing. Things like photoshop that everyone thought ran better on a mac turned out to run better on a PC. There are still things a mac is faster at, but the majority of tasks are faster on a PC now. A mac may not run like pants like some seem to think, but the PC is faster.

One last thing I'd like to say. Although I've found this thread insightful and quite a good read, I still would like to hear PC users say what they don't like about macs instead of comments from some like "PC's for life" and nothing else. I know I'm not the OP, but I still would like to hear.

Thanks everyone

If there was anything I liked about macs, I'd say it. But I can't think of one thing. Not since Oregon Trail got ported to the PC.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

A power user that doesn't have a mac can't learn it quickly. This is not the truth. And it wasn't a misconception. This, and several of your other responses, seem to be totally biased on your own experience. You need to understand that the choices here are totally based on an individual's experience. For me, I wouldn't be touching a mac on a daily basis. Heck, I maybe get one call a month from relatives and friends about PC's. But it's usually from my grandma who can barely figure out windows, switching to an entirely different system would never work.

My brother, a Die Hard PC user, learned OS X in 10 minutes. I switched to Mac in January of 2004. I started using OS X in April of 2004. I learned the OS in minutes.

It's not pointless, it's the reason why I haven't switched. I didn't say this was a valid point for anyone else, just me. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Switching to a mac would break it. My point of being safe was a matter of a response to point people always make about windows being unsafe. It's unsafe because people are unsafe, not because it's totally vulnerable. If I can do everything I need to do without running a thousand protective programs like some people here do, then anyone can.

Which is why hopejr said, "but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc.

 

[Amaroque]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Which is why hopejr said, "but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc.

I said this earlier in this thread... If the Mac ever became as popular as the PC, viruses would be abundant there too. People that write viruses are going to write for the most popular platform at the time. For the purposes of spreading easier, and faster.

You guys go on and on about viruses. People don't write viruses for the Mac, because the user base is tiny compared to the PC.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
My brother, a Die Hard PC user, learned OS X in 10 minutes. I switched to Mac in January of 2004. I started using OS X in April of 2004. I learned the OS in minutes.

It's not pointless, it's the reason why I haven't switched. I didn't say this was a valid point for anyone else, just me. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Switching to a mac would break it. My point of being safe was a matter of a response to point people always make about windows being unsafe. It's unsafe because people are unsafe, not because it's totally vulnerable. If I can do everything I need to do without running a thousand protective programs like some people here do, then anyone can.

Which is why hopejr said, "but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc.

Learning the basics is easy. Learning how to troubleshoot takes a lot longer. The discussion was on updating a relatives PC so they wouldn't call as much. However, if anything goes wrong, I won't know how to troubleshoot it necessarily, and chances are they won't learn it in 10 minutes. So it's probably overall a bad idea(as most relatives that need help are 60+ in age and don't learn things well).

Also, I have posted earlier already, that the people in my circle that aren't as tech savvy have software installed to protect them so when they do something stupid, they will be fine. I've trained them enough on how to protect themselves that I rarely get any calls now.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Amaroque

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Which is why hopejr said, "but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc.

I said this earlier in this thread... If the Mac ever became as popular as the PC, viruses would be abundant there too. People that write viruses are going to write for the most popular platform at the time. For the purposes of spreading easier, and faster.

You guys go on and on about viruses. People don't write viruses for the Mac, because the user base is tiny compared to the PC.

You are misreading his post. He is just saying that there are some people who dont know how to keep their computer from getting viruses. Thats all.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
My brother, a Die Hard PC user, learned OS X in 10 minutes. I switched to Mac in January of 2004. I started using OS X in April of 2004. I learned the OS in minutes.

It's not pointless, it's the reason why I haven't switched. I didn't say this was a valid point for anyone else, just me. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Switching to a mac would break it. My point of being safe was a matter of a response to point people always make about windows being unsafe. It's unsafe because people are unsafe, not because it's totally vulnerable. If I can do everything I need to do without running a thousand protective programs like some people here do, then anyone can.

Which is why hopejr said, "but most of the general public aren't so computer savvy and aren't as careful. They have absolutely no idea how to avoid virii, etc.

Learning the basics is easy. Learning how to troubleshoot takes a lot longer. The discussion was on updating a relatives PC so they wouldn't call as much. However, if anything goes wrong, I won't know how to troubleshoot it necessarily, and chances are they won't learn it in 10 minutes. So it's probably overall a bad idea(as most relatives that need help are 60+ in age and don't learn things well).

Also, I have posted earlier already, that the people in my circle that aren't as tech savvy have software installed to protect them so when they do something stupid, they will be fine. I've trained them enough on how to protect themselves that I rarely get any calls now.

There are some people who are willing to learn to troubleshoot their system. I was one of them. As soon as I started using OS X, I began reading a lot about troubleshooting and maintaining OS X. I didnt rely on anyone to help me. I didnt rely on Apple's Discussions boards. I read. Thats what I did. I began learning to maintain Windows by reading also. I didnt rely on anyone.

 

[BujinZero]

I can't be the only one who's veered away from both OSX and Windows for what we're calling 'general use'. Self-built PCs running Linux are superb for this task. I conducted a little pilot study by installing Slackware on the computer my dad and sister use. I got everything they needed working (3D, sound, plugins, cups, mouse, samba, cd burning) and installed a new kernel in short order. They ran Dropline Gnome perfectly fine for months with considerably fewer complaints than I had heard from their Windows XP days. Gnome is a smash hit, too. I'm not a zealot like so many, but after that success I've spread Linux who need an effective, efficient OS that they can't screw up as a regular user. It also seems to breathe new life into aging systems, handling all the usual tasks while being easy to update extends the PC's useful service life a real long ways.