Mac vs. PC

[Obsy]

What do you only have one hand or something? Can't keep one hand on the keyboard to do shortcuts there while having one hand on a trackpad? I seriously don't see the benefit of all this gesture stuff when the shortcuts already exist and are easily and quickly accessed. It's a nice option to have if you like it, but it's certainly not a necessity.

I guess if it's something you just have to have and you feel fine paying a price premium for a system that isn't as good for the money, then go ahead.

It's not a necessity, but it's there and I can have it. It makes things flow much faster. The only times both my hands are on my laptop are when I'm typing. This is true for many other people, too, especially those who lean back in their chairs. I doubt you have both your hands at your laptop's keyboard 100% of the time, too.

edit: now that I think about it, my hands were at my keyboard more often while I was using other notebooks. The reason? Because it had a shitty trackpad and forced me to.

And if you were serious about the confusing gestures in your other post, it's not. It looks confusing because he's doing it and you don't know WTF he's doing. I thought it was confusing, too, but after using it, it's easier and more intuitive than a keyboard, especially the keyboard shortcuts where the keys are rather far from each other or require your hand to leave the typing position.

I'm not talking about just the gestures in the video, but also every other one that isn't there like Exposé, and every other one you can imagine of doing with a combination of four fingers, or however many points of input the trackpad can recognize.

 

[corwin]

especially the keyboard shortcuts where the keys are rather far from each other or require your hand to leave the typing position

Can you give an example of a shortcut that requires your hand to leave the typing position? A keyboard isn't that big...hell I can ctrl+alt+del without thinking about it, even do it one handed if need be...and frankly about the only reason I use a track pad is to move something or surf the web, neither of which require the silly gestures

 

[zokudu]

Redhat does exactly the same thing as Apple (only without selling hardware), and believe me you pay a premium with them too.... but it's still considered opensource.

Mac OS X seems to give windows fanboys some sort of penis envy and vice versa, it's kinda stupid and entertaining at the same time, like a Belgian in a silly hat.

Its still considered Open Source because Red Hat allows people take RHEL and redistribute it as CentOS. Theres no restrictions on the code in the way there is with Apple "Open Source" software. The only thing Red hat doesn't allow to be redistributed is their Logos. Not to mention Red Hat does produce another free consumer linux distribution in Fedora.

Red Hat is nothing at all the same as Apple. Your paying for support for RHEL vs using a free distro such as CentOS and theres no technological difference.

 

[Ns1]

Can you give an example of a shortcut that requires your hand to leave the typing position? A keyboard isn't that big...hell I can ctrl+alt+del without thinking about it, even do it one handed if need be...and frankly about the only reason I use a track pad is to move something or surf the web, neither of which require the silly gestures

maybe the only reason you only use the trackpad for those 2 functions is cuz it sucks so bad.

I mean FFS 2 finger scroll on my Dell is complete shit compared to a macbook.

 

[busydude]

I mean FFS 2 finger scroll on my Dell is complete shit compared to a macbook.

Although I am not a big fan of the way it clicks(Need some getting used to), I Agree.. only now we are seeing anything that is close to what Apple offered back in 2008. IMO, its comparable to their capacitive touch screens.. almost took 3 years for the competition to atleast come a little close to it.

In addition to the trackpad, the single most awesome thing about Macbook's is the Mag safe adapter and the Magnetic connector.. seriously I am appalled by the fact that.. no one has not manufactured that type of connecter(Or am I missing anything?).

 

[Obsy]

Can you give an example of a shortcut that requires your hand to leave the typing position? A keyboard isn't that big...hell I can ctrl+alt+del without thinking about it, even do it one handed if need be...and frankly about the only reason I use a track pad is to move something or surf the web, neither of which require the silly gestures

I meant to say your left hand in typing position, but your right hand on the trackpad, because that's how you use a laptop, right? It was in reply to Numenorean who said "Can't keep one hand on the keyboard to do shortcuts there while having one hand on a trackpad?"

maybe the only reason you only use the trackpad for those 2 functions is cuz it sucks so bad.

and, this.

 

[Numenorean]

maybe the only reason you only use the trackpad for those 2 functions is cuz it sucks so bad.

I mean FFS 2 finger scroll on my Dell is complete shit compared to a macbook.

Odd, my Dell only requires me to use one finger to scroll. Why would I want to use two?

 

[Numenorean]

I meant to say your left hand in typing position, but your right hand on the trackpad, because that's how you use a laptop, right? It was in reply to Numenorean who said "Can't keep one hand on the keyboard to do shortcuts there while having one hand on a trackpad?"


and, this.

To answer your question, I do always have both hands on the laptop when using it unless I'm just browsing the web. I can reach all the shortcuts that I need with my left hand.

 

[Ns1]

Odd, my Dell only requires me to use one finger to scroll. Why would I want to use two?

what the fuck? how do you 1 finger scroll?

 

[Numenorean]

Doesn't matter how many fingers it takes if it sucks ass

But it doesn't suck ass. It works fine.

 

[Ns1]

But it doesn't suck ass. It works fine.

Fine for you is suck ass to me.

 

[HAL9000]

ROFL

No, a Mac Mini, iMac or MacBook certainly is not comparable to a high end PC.

What are you smoking?

They are comparable to high end systems in each of those markets. Laptops, All in ones, Ultra small.

1 - What do you need a CLI for? You still have a CLI in windows if you really want one, however you don't really need one anymore.

I spend 80% of my time in a CLI window. I need one. Without it I'd have a serious problem.

2 - All of my software runs perfectly on my PC.

I'm sure it does with some fiddling.

3 - I can run all of those OSes on my PC. I can also run them in VM's if I care to.

You can't run OSX properly on a PC, hackintosh's are coming along, but they aren't there yet.

4 - I don't need customer service. In the event of a piece of hardware failing, I purchase quality hardware from quality manufacturers and nearly all of my hardware has at least a 3 year warranty. But I haven't had anything break before I upgraded it other than a power supply which was like 6 years old.

OK...? So you don't need it, so it doesn't matter to anyone?

5 - I have good communication between my computers and my Android phone.

Brilliant!... I don't have an android phone, so what's your point?

6 - My PC just works.

That's not the case. You can't turn it on, and off you go the moment you get it, it takes a while to get it set up to work, then constant maintenance.

 

[Obsy]

Odd, my Dell only requires me to use one finger to scroll. Why would I want to use two?

But you have to have it right near the edge and follow a linear path. Plus, it needs to be in a different corner to side scroll, if it can even do that. I can conveniently scroll wherever my fingers already are, left or right (edit: and up or down), anywhere on the trackpad, and I can easily scroll diagonally, too.

To answer your question, I do always have both hands on the laptop when using it unless I'm just browsing the web. I can reach all the shortcuts that I need with my left hand.

Just because you can doesn't mean it's convenient or intuitive. I'm not going to reach for Alt+Enter to maximize a window when I can merely make a simple diagonal gesture on my trackpad. Same with minimizing, windowing, etc. I'm not going to Alt+Tab four times to get to an Application when I can just Exposé and click it.

 

[Numenorean]

They are comparable to high end systems in each of those markets. Laptops, All in ones, Ultra small.

No, they really aren't.

I spend 80% of my time in a CLI window. I need one. Without it I'd have a serious problem.

Why? What do you do 80% of the time that requires a CLI?

I'm sure it does with some fiddling.

Nope, no "fiddling" required.

You can't run OSX properly on a PC, hackintosh's are coming along, but they aren't there yet.

It runs fine on my VM. I don't use it, but I could if I cared to. It's more there in case I need to see if something works with Safari, etc.

OK...? So you don't need it, so it doesn't matter to anyone?

It probably matters a lot to Mac users who probably need constant support and hand holding.

Brilliant!... I don't have an android phone, so what's your point?

One thing is that I don't need any additional software on my computer for my Android to work. You need iTunes to do a lot of stuff and iTunes sucks.

That's not the case. You can't turn it on, and off you go the moment you get it, it takes a while to get it set up to work, then constant maintenance.

There is no constant maintenance since I have no problems with how my PC's function. I can turn it on and go, and did with my laptop. Now, with my desktop I had to install the OS since I built a custom system, but once installed there's no issues.

 

[HAL9000]

No, they really aren't.

I disagree. They are all high end machines.

Why? What do you do 80% of the time that requires a CLI?

Server administration.

Nope, no "fiddling" required.

So you own the only PC in the world that you can plug anything into and it just works, no drivers? No patches? No utilities??

It runs fine on my VM. I don't use it, but I could if I cared to. It's more there in case I need to see if something works with Safari, etc.

Ahh, I'm sure it does, but I was talking natively.

It probably matters a lot to Mac users who probably need constant support and hand holding.

Or people who don't want to pay a fuck load if something gets broken.

One thing is that I don't need any additional software on my computer for my Android to work. You need iTunes to do a lot of stuff and iTunes sucks.

That's not additional software, it comes with Mac OS.

There is no constant maintenance since I have no problems with how my PC's function. I can turn it on and go, and did with my laptop. Now, with my desktop I had to install the OS since I built a custom system, but once installed there's no issues.

Wow... So no antivirus / spyware / addware / regcleaners? I'm impressed!

 

[Numenorean]

But you have to have it right near the edge. Plus, it needs to be in a different corner to side scroll, if it can even do that. I can conveniently scroll wherever my fingers already are, left or right, anywhere on the trackpad, and I can easily scroll diagonally, too.


Just because you can doesn't mean it's convenient or intuitive. I'm not going to reach for Alt+Enter to maximize a window when I can merely make a simple diagonal gesture on my trackpad. Same with minimizing, windowing, etc. I'm not going to Alt+Tab four times to get to an Application when I can just Exposé and click it.

I don't have to have it right near the edge. I can adjust that. Side scroll is along the bottom. It's just like scrolling on the right or bottom of windows. Pretty intuitive and works fine. The micro second it takes to move slightly over is not an issue.

I don't see why I would need to maximize a window. My windows are all set to the size that they need to be and there is no reason to change them. If I have a lot of applications open I can just hit Window Key + Tab and click on the application. Or I can hit Alt-Tab and click on it as well. Or just simply click on the program on the taskbar. Honestly I don't ever use the window key + tab, and the only time I Alt-Tab is when switching between two specific programs. Otherwise I just click on the program I want which is already on the screen in the taskbar. I don't see how it can be any easier than that.

 

[Numenorean]

I disagree. They are all high end machines.

I disagree.

Server administration.

I can see that. However 80% of the time? There is plenty of server admin stuff done in GUI's.

So you own the only PC in the world that you can plug anything into and it just works, no drivers? No patches? No utilities??

We were talking about software. I don't have to fiddle with software for it to work. Utilities are just another word for software that performs a specific task. The use or non-use of them is irrelevant.

If you're talking hardware, yes of course there are some things which require drivers. A lot of things do just work though. It's not like Mac's don't require drivers.

Ahh, I'm sure it does, but I was talking natively.

I can't think of any reason why I would want a PC to run OSX natively.

Or people who don't want to pay a fuck load if something gets broken.

My PC doesn't just randomly break. If something were to fail, as I said I have warranties to cover hardware.

That's not additional software, it comes with Mac OS.

Yes, iTunes is additional software. Just because it "comes with it" doesn't mean anything. Basically you aren't given the choice to install a shitty piece of software, you just have to live with it being on there?

Wow... So no antivirus / spyware / addware / regcleaners? I'm impressed!

I have no need for any of those.

 

[Ns1]

I have no need for any of those.

you are not representative of a windows user

you rail @ mac owners but anyone who has done any amount of pc-repair work knows that pc owners are just as fucking stupid.

 

[Numenorean]

you are not representative of a windows user

you rail @ mac owners but anyone who has done any amount of pc-repair work knows that pc owners are just as fucking stupid.

Odd since I use windows.

I know there are plenty of stupid users out there - for both sides.

 

[HAL9000]

I can see that. However 80% of the time? There is plenty of server admin stuff done in GUI's.

Yeah there is, but it's pretty shit by comparison.

We were talking about software. I don't have to fiddle with software for it to work. Utilities are just another word for software that performs a specific task. The use or non-use of them is irrelevant.

The operating system is the software I was talking about.

If you're talking hardware, yes of course there are some things which require drivers. A lot of things do just work though. It's not like Mac's don't require drivers.

It's not, but it's like you don't have to install the drivers because if it works on a Mac, they are there.

I can't think of any reason why I would want a PC to run OSX natively.

So?

My PC doesn't just randomly break. If something were to fail, as I said I have warranties to cover hardware.

Accidents happen. No matter what you're like.

Yes, iTunes is additional software. Just because it "comes with it" doesn't mean anything. Basically you aren't given the choice to install a shitty piece of software, you just have to live with it being on there?

It's as additional as iCal in OSX or Outlook Express in Windows. It's not an addon, it's a part of the OS. You're complaining about OSX coming with a shit piece of software?! LOL. Also, iTunes is awesome in OSX, it's not great in Windows.

I have no need for any of those.

So you don't go on the internet on your PC or do you reformat regularly?

 

[Ns1]

Odd since I use windows.

I know there are plenty of stupid users out there - for both sides.

if you think you represent a majority of windows users you are seriously mistaken.

Ref: bleepingcomputer.com

 

[Numenorean]

The operating system is the software I was talking about.

I don't have to fiddle with the operating system.

It's not, but it's like you don't have to install the drivers because if it works on a Mac, they are there.

That doesn't even make sense. I guess you don't have to worry about that though since Mac's are so limited as far as the hardware you can put in them.

So you don't go on the internet on your PC or do you reformat regularly?

I go on the internet all the time. Why would I need to reformat regularly? That makes no sense.

 

[HAL9000]

I don't have to fiddle with the operating system.



That doesn't even make sense. I guess you don't have to worry about that though since Mac's are so limited as far as the hardware you can put in them.



I go on the internet all the time. Why would I need to reformat regularly? That makes no sense.

All of the above can be explained by the fact that you don't think your Windows computer needs antivirus antispyware, antiaddware or a regcleaner.

 

[Ns1]

I go on the internet all the time. Why would I need to reformat regularly? That makes no sense.

Well let me ask you this: why does my uncle's laptop have a fucking windows recovery virus when he's running MSE, Norton, McAffee, SuperAntiSpyware, AND MBAM AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME!?!?

Which leads me to my next question: WHY DOES HE HAVE TO RUN ALL THAT SHIT IN THE FIRST PLACE?




Oh well, $50/hr in my pocket.

 

[Numenorean]

All of the above can be explained by the fact that you don't think your Windows computer needs antivirus antispyware, antiaddware or a regcleaner.

It doesn't explain anything. I don't "think" my system doesn't need that stuff. I know it doesn't. I don't get viruses or spyware or other stuff on my system. And I don't install 5,000 stupid programs which leave junk scattered all over. I install what I need, no more.