Maine court rules in favor of transgender pupil

[nehalem256]

My my; someone has anger mgmt and control issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

From the article, "Gender identity is usually formed by age three'

You can look up more info for yourself; Google is your friend.

As far as real world examples I don't know enough two- or three-year olds to give examples but linked research in the Wiki article goes to psychologists and their research into gender identity.

Suffice it to say that regardless of our physical gender we all have masculine and feminine aspects of varying degrees.

Have a nice day.

What? That isn't what you said earlier

Doing something "girly"? Oh please educate us; exactly what qualifies as "girly"?

:whiste:

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Gender is not binary. Period. You might be a male or female as far as physical sexual organs is concerned, but that is different than the mental/psychological side of gender. Also the article is about a teenager who has identified as a girl since an early age. Not about a 2 year old saying "mommy/daddy I want a sex change."

Ok, here is a question. What gender is a hermaphrodite? They have both male and female sexual organs. So then if they identify as a male, they can't use the male facilities because they have boobs and a vagina. But if they identify as a female, they can't use the female facilities because they have a penis.

I fully support this schools decision for the record. Also, many people in here should read this to start.

 

[nehalem256]

My my; someone has anger mgmt and control issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

From the article, "Gender identity is usually formed by age three'

also:

Gender identity is usually formed by age three and is extremely difficult to change after that.[2][3][4][5] The formation also commonly concludes between the ages of four and six.[6] Gender identity is affected by influence of others, social interactions, and a child’s own personal interest. Understanding gender can be broken down into four parts: (1) understanding the concept of gender, (2) learning gender role standards and stereotypes, (3) identifying with parents, and (4) forming gender preference (Newman 243). A three year old can identify themselves as a boy or a girl, though they do not yet fully understand the implications of gender

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

What? That isn't what you said earlier



:whiste:

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

also:

In other words: Gender is a self-identity that is partially influenced by a society.

 

[nehalem256]

Gender is not binary. Period. You might be a male or female as far as physical sexual organs is concerned, but that is different than the mental/psychological side of gender. Also the article is about a teenager who has identified as a girl since an early age. Not about a 2 year old saying "mommy/daddy I want a sex change."
[/URL] to start.

But doesn't the whole idea of transgenderism essentially require gender to be binary?

Saying that a biological male that acts girly(whatever that means ) is really a girl seems to require rigid gender roles to make sense.

 

[nehalem256]

In other words: Gender is a self-identity that is partially influenced by a society.

I want to self-identify as the orange gender!

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

But doesn't the whole idea of transgenderism essentially require gender to be binary?

Saying that a biological male that acts girly(whatever that means ) is really a girl seems to require rigid gender roles to make sense.

No it does not require a binary. And a lot of transgendered individuals, and non-transgendered individuals, have aspects that are male and others that are female.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I want to self-identify as the orange gender!

Troll troll troll your boat. :whiste:

 

[Sonikku]

I may occasionally use sarcasm enough to the point that I might better mark the posts that aren't sarcastic to save time. So consider this a /s as a heads up...


Unless you have been in this position, you really don't know.


Transgenderism is a very complicated issue. It isn't "yes" or "no". It's a sliding scale. Some might consider themselves transgendered, but might in fact only be suffering from something else that may only be a temporary mental condition that can be remedied with counseling. Others may in fact have identified as a gender different from what their anatomy may suggest their entire lives and should transition. And others still could be classified as "inter-sexed", or having organs from both genders. Ideally, everyone would all fit neatly into the X or Y column with no variation. But it doesn't always work that way. The existence of inter-sexed patients alone proves that "god" can and does make mistakes and we as a society need to deal with the consequences.

The media hasn't been very helpful in this regard. Often shooting for the most polarizing and sensational angle possible, usually seeking out the extremes, passing them off as the rule and stringing things together in the most damning and insinuation filled faux accusations imaginable. The wide majority of those that are transgendered just want to live in a world where they can be accepted for who they are in the inside. Yet the takeaway from one of the stories linked is all "The nutzers trannies are pushing us around and if we don't push back, Big burly hairy men are going to get naked and rape your 6 year old daughter".

This kind of journalism isn't completely unlike what Putin has pulled in telling gays coming to the Olympics "You can be gay, but stay away from our kids", as if to use innuendo and insinuation to tie being gay to being a pedophile. That's too bad. And media that sticks to facts and allows a viewer to make their own determination has gone the way of entertainment and the advancing of agendas under the false guise of journalism. But we have to expect better if we consider ourselves to be mature adults that live in a society that can deal with these kinds of matters seriously, without caving in so readily to the outrageous.

In any event, the fairest option I can think of is to provide people who identify as being transgendered with a road to using their preferred bathroom, but make it a little difficult. Have the school require letters from a psychiatrist, general practice and endocrinologist certifying that this patient has shown strong signs of being transgendered and are taking it very seriously. That takes time and effort and serves as a deterrent to those men who think they can just come out and say "Ok I feel like a girl now, let me in their locker room" and hop right in. Consideration has to be afforded to both points of view to some extent or you risk undermining progress.

 

[Zaap]

My my; someone has anger mgmt and control issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

From the article, "Gender identity is usually formed by age three'

You can look up more info for yourself; Google is your friend.

People that advocate for the abuse of children (using quack pseudo-psychology or any other chickenshit excuse) piss me off, yes.

Gee, you sure prove your point, and answer my question of how EXACTLY a two-year old expresses a change of gender identity by linking to Wikipedia and Google! Not a cop out at all!

But don't worry, no one really expected you to do anything other than cop out when pressed for some actual facts to back up your bullshit.

 

[alzan]

People that advocate for the abuse of children (using quack pseudo-psychology or any other chickenshit excuse) piss me off, yes.

Gee, you sure prove your point, and answer my question of how EXACTLY a two-year old expresses a change of gender identity by linking to Wikipedia and Google! Not a cop out at all!

But don't worry, no one really expected you to do anything other than cop out when pressed for some actual facts to back up your bullshit.

I see; by linking research (that was done, you know, on children) that shows the different factors contributing to gender identity I'm advocating for child abuse.

Like I said earlier psychology is a vast discipline and while it wasn't my field of expertise I do maintain an interest in it. Since you're unconvinced by linked research data perhaps you should talk to a psychologist about it yourself; after your much needed anger mgmt. sessions.

I'm guessing you didn't read, or even peruse, the data. Color me shocked. Can't help it if you're too lazy (or too inept) to do your own reading and discovery.

"Quack, pseudo-psychology", the frequently uttered words of someone who's lost the argument.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

People that advocate for the abuse of children (using quack pseudo-psychology or any other chickenshit excuse) piss me off, yes.

Gee, you sure prove your point, and answer my question of how EXACTLY a two-year old expresses a change of gender identity by linking to Wikipedia and Google! Not a cop out at all!

But don't worry, no one really expected you to do anything other than cop out when pressed for some actual facts to back up your bullshit.

Wikipedia cites the sources. A quick 5 minute Google search could find numerous studies done on gender identity research. You would rather stick your head in the sand and go "nah nah nah can't hear you, I win."

Either educate yourself or remove yourself from the conversation. It's akin to arguing the world is flat because it looks flat to you.

 

[pcgeek11]

This is the most fucked up shit I have ever read. The courts are leading our whole country right down the shitter. I cannot understand how so many of you ae OK with this crap.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

This is the most fucked up shit I have ever read. The courts are leading our whole country right down the shitter. I cannot understand how so many of you ae OK with this crap.

I can't understand how you're not ok with it.

Actually wait, I can understand how you're not okay with it. It's basically people saying that same sex marriage will take the country down the shitter as you say. Just as people saying interracial marriages and desegregating schools and other public areas would lead the country down the shitter.

 

[waggy]

I can't understand how you're not ok with it.

Actually wait, I can understand how you're not okay with it. It's basically people saying that same sex marriage will take the country down the shitter as you say. Just as people saying interracial marriages and desegregating schools and other public areas would lead the country down the shitter.

that is a false comparison. Same sex marriage has nothing to do with anyone else besides the two people entering into the marriage.

Allowing someone claim they are female and enter the girls locker room to change, shower, lounge effects every girl in the room. Why should they be forced to share the locker room with a male? YOU may be ok with doign that but not everyone is.

 

[classy]

and stories like this will come more frequently over the years. all it takes is for a perv to say he is transgender and go in and get off watching girls change.

from the way that story sounds the guy is just getting off exposing himself and watching girls.

It will be worse, no doubt these people will start raping. If they have a full surgery, then okay, but no male regardless of how they feel inside, regardless of their age, if they have a penis, they do not belong in the bathroom with females.

 

[nehalem256]

I can't understand how you're not ok with it.

Actually wait, I can understand how you're not okay with it. It's basically people saying that same sex marriage will take the country down the shitter as you say. Just as people saying interracial marriages and desegregating schools and other public areas would lead the country down the shitter.

Your comparison zero sense unless you are a racist who believes there is a fundamental difference between black people and white people.

 

[waggy]

It will be worse, no doubt these people will start raping. If they have a full surgery, then okay, but no male regardless of how they feel inside, regardless of their age, if they have a penis, they do not belong in the bathroom with females.

agreed.

I just wait for the stories to come out of some perv claiming to be a transgender sitting in a girls locker room getting off.

or some high school kid using that as a excuse and going into the girls locker room.

there are pervs out and they will use it to get off.

i just wonder why the girls rights to not have a male in the locker room does not matter. That the rights of someone else trumps ALL of those.

 

[pcgeek11]

I can't understand how you're not ok with it.

Actually wait, I can understand how you're not okay with it. It's basically people saying that same sex marriage will take the country down the shitter as you say. Just as people saying interracial marriages and desegregating schools and other public areas would lead the country down the shitter.

Well you are special aren't you?

The comparison you are trying to make is clearly stupid.

 

[Victorian Gray]

agreed.

I just wait for the stories to come out of some perv claiming to be a transgender sitting in a girls locker room getting off.

or some high school kid using that as a excuse and going into the girls locker room.

there are pervs out and they will use it to get off.

i just wonder why the girls rights to not have a male in the locker room does not matter. That the rights of someone else trumps ALL of those.

You really think that it's that easy? Seriously?

 

[waggy]

You really think that it's that easy? Seriously?

and you don't think it's going to happen?
yeah i do think its going to happen. its not a mater of IF its a matter of WHEN

 

[Zaap]

Wikipedia cites the sources. A quick 5 minute Google search could find numerous studies done on gender identity research. You would rather stick your head in the sand and go "nah nah nah can't hear you, I win."

Either educate yourself or remove yourself from the conversation. It's akin to arguing the world is flat because it looks flat to you.

Another dumbass who can't answer a simple question.

I'll ask you the same thing, dumbass: how does a 2 year old identify as the opposite gender? Give actual REAL WORLD examples. I know you'll cop out like the other idiot, but have at it.

 

[alzan]

Another dumbass who can't answer a simple question.

I'll ask you the same thing, dumbass: how does a 2 year old identify as the opposite gender? Give actual REAL WORLD examples. I know you'll cop out like the other idiot, but have at it.

Look out everyone, it's the internet bully. He bullies because he can't comprehend the English language and is absolutely flummoxed as to how Google and hyperlinks work.

 

[Zaap]

^ Oh look, the idiot who STILL can't answer a simple question, trying to cover for the fact that he was blowing smoke out of his ass.