[non-sarcasam]
I already said the most fair way to do it is to make it more complicated than simply "coming out", as the few with the will to abuse the system will undermine it for those with more legitimate need;
agreed.
I just wait for the stories to come out of some perv claiming to be a transgender sitting in a girls locker room getting off.
or some high school kid using that as a excuse and going into the girls locker room.
there are pervs out and they will use it to get off.
i just wonder why the girls rights to not have a male in the locker room does not matter. That the rights of someone else trumps ALL of those.
In any event, the fairest option I can think of is to provide people who identify as being transgendered with a road to using their preferred bathroom, but make it a little difficult. Have the school require letters from a psychiatrist, general practice and endocrinologist certifying that this patient has shown strong signs of being transgendered and are taking it very seriously. That takes time and effort and serves as a deterrent to those men who think they can just come out and say "Ok I feel like a girl now, let me in their locker room" and hop right in. Consideration has to be afforded to both points of view to some extent or you risk undermining progress.
and you don't think it's going to happen?
yeah i do think its going to happen. its not a mater of IF its a matter of WHEN
I'm glad that I don't live in the same world as you seem to. It must be terrible living in such fear and ignorance.
seems many posters here are getting hung up on 2 separate issues:
biologic gender (male or female as there are only 2 genders)
gender identity (what you feel you are)
society has defined the specifics of acceptable gender roles. Those who identify with something other than what they were born as are seen as abnormal or agitators trying to "push" an agenda of forced change against societal norms.
I feel treating everybody with respect is probably the best thing to do.
this stuff about 2 year olds is just nonsense.
But you do. You are just in denial about it. It isn't fear or ignorance it is the facts. Read a paper. This shit goes on daily.
society has defined the specifics of acceptable gender roles. Those who identify with something other than what they were born as are seen as abnormal or agitators trying to "push" an agenda of forced change against societal norms.
Yes but society didn't just pull these gender roles out of its ass.
They are a reflection of biology and an extension of it. Over time they have gotten much more elaborate than the basics biology provides, but so has our music, weaponry, language, etc.
The ultimate question is, is it beneficial or healthy for a society to let modes of sexuality which are, when you get right down to it, biological glitches, attain a prominence and equal footing with the norm?
Another dumbass who can't answer a simple question.
I'll ask you the same thing, dumbass: how does a 2 year old identify as the opposite gender? Give actual REAL WORLD examples. I know you'll cop out like the other idiot, but have at it.
seems many posters here are getting hung up on 2 separate issues:
biologic gender (male or female as there are only 2 genders)
gender identity (what you feel you are)
society has defined the specifics of acceptable gender roles. Those who identify with something other than what they were born as are seen as abnormal or agitators trying to "push" an agenda of forced change against societal norms.
I feel treating everybody with respect is probably the best thing to do.
this stuff about 2 year olds is just nonsense.
Identifying as a gender is usually done by age 3 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity, and since you don't want to read that the original sources:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/228219/gender-identity
http://books.google.com/books?id=up...nepage&q=Biology of femininity gender&f=false
And some other sources:
http://www.kidsdr.com/parenting/kids-and-gender-identity
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90229789
http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx
http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/age-gender-identity-disorder-begins).
Ask psychologists who has studied gender identities in children. This is well established in the scientific realm of child psychology and gender identities.
Nonsense.
If sex cannot strictly define someone, then gender alone can't either. Why should one trump the other in such an arbitrary fashion?
Why do you have such a sweeping dismissal of child psychology? What evidence do you have to support your dismissal of the existing theories and evidence?
Please, answer my question first.
Biological sex and gender are not the same thing. I don't think we're trumping one for the other in some arbitrary fashion. And I don't think we're choosing signs for which restroom to enter based on what sex we are, we're choosing them based on how we self-identify in terms of gender (which usually happens to be one-in-the-same with biological sex).
But I'm not an expert in this area, but I would trust the people that have intimate knowledge of this area of childhood development (aka the people doing research in this area) more than someone on the internet that is completely dismissive simply based on how they feel.
I'm wasn't dismissing the professional field as much as I was dismissing the fact that he seems to be implying that if a doctor says its so, its so...we cannot question it.
Secondly, and more importantly, when kids want to be buzz-lightyear, or has a fascination with Bibles, or dresses like an Eagle because he wants to fly, no one is rushing their kids to a psychologist in fear their kids actually want to be a fictional character, or want to be a Catholic, or want to actually become a bird -- we normally write these off as being a child.
Yet, I used to play with my sister's toys (really, because I only had sisters at one point), but I wasn't put in a dress and taken to the family doctor and I am a functional man with no desire to be a woman.
My point is, how do we know parents aren't looking for something that isn't there, that is only a phase, or simply "being a kid"?
I'm not saying we shouldn't be skeptical, but the main arguments in this thread are blatant dismissal of the science behind how gender identity is formed or claiming that the parents are abusing their child. I would hope that the parents went to more than one doctor to get an expert opinion on this issue. If all the doctors are saying the same thing, the reasonable thing to do is to trust their expert opinions.
Those are not the same thing.
Congratulations. Your gender and biological sex happen to be one-in-the-same.
We don't. That's an issue between the parents, the child, and their doctor(s). We can only take what they say in public about the issue with what research has told us about how these issues develop.
first off, I was just making a statement based on what everyone sees on a daily basis.How can you "feel" like something that is defined by society?
Do you "feel" like a Democrat?
Also, don't the same people who typically support transgendered people also oppose rigid gender roles?
If failing to conform to say traditional female gender roles makes you a man then wouldn't that mean that women that are more interested in wearing pants suits and having a high powered career than having a family are actually male gendered?
I'm wasn't dismissing the professional field as much as I was dismissing the fact that he seems to be implying that if a doctor says its so, its so...we cannot question it.
Secondly, and more importantly, when kids want to be buzz-lightyear, or has a fascination with Bibles, or dresses like an Eagle because he wants to fly, no one is rushing their kids to a psychologist in fear their kids actually want to be a fictional character, or want to be a Catholic, or want to actually become a bird -- we normally write these off as being a child.
Yet, I used to play with my sister's toys (really, because I only had sisters at one point), but I wasn't put in a dress and taken to the family doctor and I am a functional man with no desire to be a woman.
My point is, how do we know parents aren't looking for something that isn't there, that is only a phase, or simply "being a kid"?
I would hope parents give their children a few years past 3 to make sure of something instead of thinking they need a rushed diagnosis.
Really, how do you know? We know those aren't the same thing because we don't take our kids to get diagnosed. We let time go by, watch the phase pass, and get along with life.
That's because my mother didn't take me to a doctor, and my father gave my boy toys to help me keep my identity.
We don't know her medical history (nor should we), so we can't say for certain when she transitioned. However, this would not have been decided at 3 years old. Period. If you think otherwise then you have no idea how the entire diagnosis and transition process occurs and frankly have no right to claim some kind of authority on the subject. Because you don't know and don't have any.
And this would have been a persistent thing for doctors, psychologists, and the (presumably) parents to let happen. What parent wants to have a transgendered kid? Do you honestly think that parents go "oh yeah they played with a dress once, now they are a girl" or "I wish we had a girl... so let's make this son of ours a girl"? The parents will know how difficult it will be for their kid being a transgender individual. This case is exactly the type of thing that their child will encounter for the rest of their life. I challenge you to find me one instance of a parent who forced a kid to change genders.
No, it's because your psychological gender identity matches your biological physical identity.
first off, I was just making a statement based on what everyone sees on a daily basis.
Democrat is not a gender.
Everyone is born either male or female. That cannot be changed no matter how much surgery one gets.
If for some reason you don't identify with your natural gender (sex: m or f) then your gender identity is what you feel it should be.
Gender roles are a societal invention. Personally I don't care what someone's role is. Changing gender roles doesn't change one's gender. A man doesn't become female because he watches the kids at home while his wife works.
And this is what I am saying is BS. If gender is a societal invention. How can anyone, much less a 2 year old, feel like a member of a certain gender?