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John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
The ACA was pretty good, yes! Health care cost inflation has been low since it was passed, thirty million more poor and sick people got health insurance, and it cost less than anticipated. If that’s not policy success I would love to hear what is. It’s not perfect, but it was pretty good. I know for me personally it’s the most meaningful piece of federal legislation enacted in my lifetime.

As for the Republicans being able to undermine it, it’s unlikely that many pieces of legislation are crafted (or should be crafted) to withstand an all out assault by a nihilistic minority party.


No one can afford it! The very fact it's called the ACA is an out right oxymoron. The ACA was the biggest pile of crap ever passed! There should have been common sense reform, regulation and state to state competition. But Congress can't even get that done FFS.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,814
49,504
136
No one can afford it! The very fact it's called the ACA is an out right oxymoron. The ACA was the biggest pile of crap ever passed! There should have been common sense reform, regulation and state to state competition. But Congress can't even get that done FFS.

The ACA promoted interstate competition, you idiot. I love how you complain about the ACA by criticizing it for not doing things that it does.

It was a good piece of legislation. You are simply too invested in looking st politics like it’s a sports team to be able to rationally evaluate it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
The ACA was pretty good, yes! Health care cost inflation has been low since it was passed, thirty million more poor and sick people got health insurance, and it cost less than anticipated. If that’s not policy success I would love to hear what is. It’s not perfect, but it was pretty good. I know for me personally it’s the most meaningful piece of federal legislation enacted in my lifetime.

As for the Republicans being able to undermine it, it’s unlikely that many pieces of legislation are crafted (or should be crafted) to withstand an all out assault by a nihilistic minority party.
I have to disagree. To me, the ACA is like combating thievery by paying off thieves. Sure, crime is down and it didn't cost us as much as we thought it would, but its still a subsidy to an inherently flawed system with a single focus on the ends...and given the fragility of such a subsidy laden solution, very easy to dismantle or undermine.

The New Deal was architected to endure.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,814
49,504
136
I have to disagree. To me, the ACA is like combating thievery by paying off thieves. Sure, crime is down and it didn't cost us as much as we thought it would, but its still a subsidy to an inherently flawed system with a single focus on the ends...and given the fragility of such a subsidy laden solution, very easy to dismantle or undermine.

The New Deal was architected to endure.

Meh, the only question that matters to me is if it made the system better or worse. The answer to me isn’t even close, it made things much better.

As to whether or not it would have been better to pass some sort of new deal universal health care well sure, but that wasn’t going to pass.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
This is going to bite Republicans back, big time. It's going to blow another massive bubble with buybacks, not supported by underlying economy, which will get weaker with SALT elimination, disruption of individual mandate, and fed rate hikes in response to fiscal stimulus. When it all blows up, GOP is gone for a generation. Their cohort of useful Baby Boomer idiots is dying, so no one left to bring them back like after the last economic disaster they caused.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
So let's pass a flawed piece of legislature just to pass legislature? The ACA is barely on life support.

Compare and contrast the ACA to the bold social programs of the New Deal that survived and endured.
ACA is not on life support. Record number of enrollments this year.
The legislation would have been less flawed had they eschewed falsely promised republican support.
Flawed legislation is ok as long as there is a commitment to work on it. The GOPs tax cuts have no commitment to work on it. In fact, the basic plan is to let all the tax cuts expire shortly but to leave all the major tax cuts for the uber rich in place. Its pretty blatant what they are trying to do. How can you defend this?
 
Reactions: Aegeon

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Meh, the only question that matters to me is if it made the system better or worse. The answer to me isn’t even close, it made things much better.

As to whether or not it would have been better to pass some sort of new deal universal health care well sure, but that wasn’t going to pass.
Doesn't matter, as the ACA will not endure. The Democrats failed to stick the landing. Why repeal when you can undermine so it withers and dies.

I hope it dies. I've experienced European socialized medicine. I prefer the simplicity and elegance of a single payer system.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
No one can afford it! The very fact it's called the ACA is an out right oxymoron. The ACA was the biggest pile of crap ever passed! There should have been common sense reform, regulation and state to state competition. But Congress can't even get that done FFS.

No, whatever passed between your mothers legs when you were birthed was.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,041
4,802
136
If the Democrats are too lazy to go to the polls and vote next cycle I will refuse to hear a word they say when they lose again.
 
Reactions: Starbuck1975

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Doesn't matter, as the ACA will not endure. The Democrats failed to stick the landing. Why repeal when you can undermine so it withers and dies.

I hope it dies. I've experienced European socialized medicine. I prefer the simplicity and elegance of a single payer system.
You realize the ACA was written with a public option to allow anyone to buy into medicare and republicans killed that option?

It also had an amendment to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices and again republicans who promised their votes killed that option, only to not vote for it on the final day anyway?

And how can people be mad about the ACA when they aren't paying for it anyway? Almost no one here is making 250K per year.
 
Reactions: Aegeon

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,814
49,504
136
Doesn't matter, as the ACA will not endure. The Democrats failed to stick the landing. Why repeal when you can undermine so it withers and dies.

I hope it dies. I've experienced European socialized medicine. I prefer the simplicity and elegance of a single payer system.

It’s easy to say it doesn’t matter when you’re not one of the people it has helped. Trust me, it matters so, so much.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,874
34,820
136
Doesn't matter, as the ACA will not endure. The Democrats failed to stick the landing. Why repeal when you can undermine so it withers and dies.

I hope it dies. I've experienced European socialized medicine. I prefer the simplicity and elegance of a single payer system.

America will never be able to get past the "s" word.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,814
49,504
136
If the Democrats are too lazy to go to the polls and vote next cycle I will refuse to hear a word they say when they lose again.

The real risk is if Democrats win the house vote by six or seven points but because the system is so rigged they still don’t get the house. That’s when we get to a dark and scary place.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
ACA is not on life support. Record number of enrollments this year.
The legislation would have been less flawed had they eschewed falsely promised republican support.
Flawed legislation is ok as long as there is a commitment to work on it. The GOPs tax cuts have no commitment to work on it. In fact, the basic plan is to let all the tax cuts expire shortly but to leave all the major tax cuts for the uber rich in place. Its pretty blatant what they are trying to do. How can you defend this?
I am not defending the GOP tax plan. I agree our tax code is in desperate need of reform, I do not agree with how they are going about it.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
You realize how embarrassing it is to say things like that, right? ‘I know it’s good because it makes people I dislike mad’ is the sort of thinking a small child uses.

It is the same stream of logic that my 5 year old follows to troll his older sister.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
I am not defending the GOP tax plan. I agree our tax code is in desperate need of reform, I do not agree with how they are going about it.
You should be furious with how they are going about it. Rather than fixing real loopholes and having real amendments to specific issues, they just created a massive reverse robin hood program for their big money donors.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
ACA is not on life support. Record number of enrollments this year.
The legislation would have been less flawed had they eschewed falsely promised republican support.
Flawed legislation is ok as long as there is a commitment to work on it. The GOPs tax cuts have no commitment to work on it. In fact, the basic plan is to let all the tax cuts expire shortly but to leave all the major tax cuts for the uber rich in place. Its pretty blatant what they are trying to do. How can you defend this?
If insurance companies lose their subsidies for low income enrollees and the healthy are able to pool outside of the exchanges, its dead, doesn't matter how many people want it.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
You should be furious with how they are going about it. Rather than fixing real loopholes and having real amendments to specific issues, they just created a massive reverse robin hood program for their big money donors.
I am furious. Its why I don't support this administration, no longer vote Republican and for the first time in my life pulled a lever for a Democrat.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,874
34,820
136
Doesn't explain the sustained popularity of Sanders. If only it had been his turn.

He thrived on his own brand of populism. Delivering policy is a lot harder, as witnessed by Trump delivering the opposite of what he promised.
 
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