Making a 100 grand and BSing about the "1%"

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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
$100k a year in NYC is an extremely good living and is approximately 200% of the median household income for the city. Even when adjusted for cost of living it would be about 150% of the country's median household income or more, depending on what borough you live in.

It's always hilarious to me when people try to go on about how $100k (or $250k or whatever) is a pittance to live on in New York. Completely clueless. Sure New York is expensive, but $100k being pretty much nothing? What a joke.
in terms of quality-of-life, though, 100k in NYC feels about middle-class whereas anywhere else in the country outside of the bay area, you'd be living like a king.

you certainly couldn't purchase property on that, unless you're talking like a fixer-upper 1.5-2 hours outside of Manhattan (unless you're willing to live in neighborhoods with serious crime issues like Greenville in Jersey City)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
in terms of quality-of-life, though, 100k in NYC feels about middle-class whereas anywhere else in the country outside of the bay area, you'd be living like a king.

Not really. NYC is more expensive than most, but not as much as people think. (outside of Manhattan that is). Here's a cost of living index from 2010. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I could easily find and I imagine the broad trends are the same:

http://www.infoplease.com/business/economy/cost-living-index-us-cities.html


you certainly couldn't purchase property on that, unless you're talking like a fixer-upper 1.5-2 hours outside of Manhattan (unless you're willing to live in neighborhoods with serious crime issues like Greenville in Jersey City)

Simply not true. You absolutely can, and lots of people do own property while making substantially less than $100k. There are plenty of areas in Queens and in Brooklyn south of Prospect Park where you can buy a one bedroom where there is both low crime and access to Manhattan in anywhere from about 25-40 minutes, depending on what area you're talking about, and they have affordable mortgage payments for people making about $65-70k or more. Sunnyside, Kensington, Ditmas Park, PLG, etc. (remember, no car payment needed for most people in NYC)

While I make more than that, I bought property in NYC about a year and a half ago and spent a lot of time looking at different areas so I think I have a decent idea of what is out there for regular people.

As to the topic though, people who make $100k a year are affluent by any reasonable standard, but as mizzou mentioned, are not really the problem. They are in the top 25% of household incomes, where the major cause of the increase in inequality has been in incomes for the top few percent (and really the top few tenths of a percent).
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
There are very few 22-year-olds I would trust to advise me on how to live my life, and she is not one. With all due respect, I see a very pretty face (the God-given advantage she received and does not, apparently, credit) spouting a lot of glib platitudes. Not really what I would consider insightful commentary.


My thoughts exactly.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
$100k a year in NYC is an extremely good living and is approximately 200% of the median household income for the city. Even when adjusted for cost of living it would be about 150% of the country's median household income or more, depending on what borough you live in.

It's always hilarious to me when people try to go on about how $100k (or $250k or whatever) is a pittance to live on in New York. Completely clueless. Sure New York is expensive, but $100k being pretty much nothing? What a joke.

The average Manhattan apartment is $3,973 a month. So after taxes and rent you are making maybe $1000 a month or $10-$15k a year. Subtract $5k a year for food and $5k a year healthcare deductible. That leaves you with a pittance.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,438
211
106
A better looking Anne Coulter from first glance
Just another dumb ideologue
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
"My ideology believes XYZ and anyone who believes otherwise is wrong, evil, stupid, and un-American. Nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind."

So sick of being fed the same garbage on every facet of media (TV, radio, print, and internet). Is no one capable of rational thought, self inflection, and courteous discourse?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
The average Manhattan apartment is $3,973 a month. So after taxes and rent you are making maybe $1000 a month or $10-$15k a year. Subtract $5k a year for food and $5k a year healthcare deductible. That leaves you with a pittance.

You are so clueless it's painful.

1. That's average rent for all apartments, not median rent. For an idea of what Manhattan apartments actually go for, just go to craigslist:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/mnh/aap

2. Most apartments are not single occupancy.
3. Manhattan represents a small portion of NYC and it is by far the most expensive. Average rents are WAY lower in the other boroughs.

So yes, living by yourself in Manhattan would be difficult, although you could definitely do it as there are many, many apartments for far less than $4,000 a month (this is why average is a dumb metric). Living most other places in NYC? Not a problem.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
That's a very snappy comeback. You have really put in my place.

On a serious note I'm glad you haven't lost your mind yet to the point of shooting up a clinic. There is still time for you to step off the path you are on.


Dude, why would you think I would EVER do such a thing?! That line of thinking, well frankly is straight up 'retarded.' Okay?

Just because I identify as a Conservative...staunch Conservative that is, I'm not a murdering maniac like a planned parenthood abortionist.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
There are very few 22-year-olds I would trust to advise me on how to live my life, and she is not one. With all due respect, I see a very pretty face (the God-given advantage she received and does not, apparently, credit) spouting a lot of glib platitudes. Not really what I would consider insightful commentary.


But you are a bleeding heart progressive, right?
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,430
3,535
126
Not really. NYC is more expensive than most, but not as much as people think. (outside of Manhattan that is). Here's a cost of living index from 2010. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I could easily find and I imagine the broad trends are the same:

http://www.infoplease.com/business/economy/cost-living-index-us-cities.html

The cost of living in NYC has been rapidly outpacing wage growth for the last 5 years so I am not sure the 'broad trends' statement is correct. For example rent prices 2011-2014 have risen faster than inflation and ~3x wage increases. Now 2.5 million people are spending more than 50% of their income on rent. Utilities are also increasing faster than wage growth albeit at a slower rate

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/new-york-rents-outpaced-inflation-over-3-years-census-data-say.html

One of the big questions I have about CPI-U is the effect of energy prices on the metric. The rate for this year has been largely affected by a drop in gas prices:
For the year ended October 2015, the energy index fell 19.9 percent, largely due to a 31.9-percent drop in gasoline prices.

Unless I am missing something this appears to be reflected in the overall census bureau's inflation figures for the NYC\New Jersey\Long Island area with no additional weighting despite the lowest car ownership rates in the US which would appear to make the value misleading
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/why-do-the-smartest-cities-have-the-smallest-share-of-cars/283234/

Also - taking the cities and figures in your post from 2010 means that $100,000 in Brooklyn equals $60,000 in Akron OH (the closest to 100 composite index I could find in this other site). Thats not much more than the household median income. I can see why a 40% reduction would make NYC seem fairly expensive

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
 
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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
You are so clueless it's painful.

1. That's average rent for all apartments, not median rent. For an idea of what Manhattan apartments actually go for, just go to craigslist:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/mnh/aap

2. Most apartments are not single occupancy.
3. Manhattan represents a small portion of NYC and it is by far the most expensive. Average rents are WAY lower in the other boroughs.

So yes, living by yourself in Manhattan would be difficult, although you could definitely do it as there are many, many apartments for far less than $4,000 a month (this is why average is a dumb metric). Living most other places in NYC? Not a problem.

Is Manhattan not part of New York City? Is the statement I made not a fact? Is not the average rent $4000 a month? You can play games with numbers all you want, but the averages tell the story. On average, a person living in New York City making $100K a year does not have a nice house, nor a boat, nor a snowmobile, nor jet ski, nor motorcycle, nor anything resembling the kind of wealth that a person living in Kentucky on that kind of income. You are comparing a frickin lakefront house + boat +probably 3 cars to a frickin apartment (potentially with roomates!) Jesus you got some nerve.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
Is Manhattan not part of New York City? Is the statement I made not a fact? Is not the average rent $4000 a month? You can play games with numbers all you want, but the averages tell the story. On average, a person living in New York City making $100K a year does not have a nice house, nor a boat, nor a snowmobile, nor jet ski, nor motorcycle, nor anything resembling the kind of wealth that a person living in Kentucky on that kind of income. You are comparing a frickin lakefront house + boat +probably 3 cars to a frickin apartment (potentially with roomates!) Jesus you got some nerve.
A row boat and three cars on blocks doesn't count.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Is Manhattan not part of New York City? Is the statement I made not a fact? Is not the average rent $4000 a month? You can play games with numbers all you want, but the averages tell the story. On average, a person living in New York City making $100K a year does not have a nice house, nor a boat, nor a snowmobile, nor jet ski, nor motorcycle, nor anything resembling the kind of wealth that a person living in Kentucky on that kind of income. You are comparing a frickin lakefront house + boat +probably 3 cars to a frickin apartment (potentially with roomates!) Jesus you got some nerve.

Yes, it's the most expensive part. Who the hell said you can live like someone in Kentucky? Holy shit you are clueless.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Is Manhattan not part of New York City? Is the statement I made not a fact? Is not the average rent $4000 a month? You can play games with numbers all you want, but the averages tell the story.

You're the one playing games with numbers. Manhattan represents about 19% of NYC's population. In addition, average rent, especially for a place like Manhattan is pushed to be disproportionately high by a small number of extraordinarily expensive apartments. That's why averages don't tell the story, and why when reporting on incomes, etc, intelligent people use the median.

So no. Manhattan is not representative of NYC as a whole, and average rents are not representative of the rental market as a whole. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Using your identical logic you could say that the US is an unaffordably expensive place to live because average rents in Manhattan are $4k a month. That would be stupid for the same reasons, just magnified.

On average, a person living in New York City making $100K a year does not have a nice house, nor a boat, nor a snowmobile, nor jet ski, nor motorcycle, nor anything resembling the kind of wealth that a person living in Kentucky on that kind of income. You are comparing a frickin lakefront house + boat +probably 3 cars to a frickin apartment (potentially with roomates!) Jesus you got some nerve.

And the average person living in Kentucky doesn't have access to world class museums, world class universities, world class cultural events, some of the best restaurants in the world, great nightlife, etc, etc, etc. Funny how you don't factor any of those things in. Is there a reason?

Did you not realize that people are voluntarily trading that snowmobile for cultural and social capital that many people, myself included, find far more valuable?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
The cost of living in NYC has been rapidly outpacing wage growth for the last 5 years so I am not sure the 'broad trends' statement is correct. For example rent prices 2011-2014 have risen faster than inflation and ~3x wage increases. Now 2.5 million people are spending more than 50% of their income on rent. Utilities are also increasing faster than wage growth albeit at a slower rate

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/new-york-rents-outpaced-inflation-over-3-years-census-data-say.html

Fair enough. I agree my measure wasn't the best, it was just the one I could find most easily and quickly.

I do stand by the idea that $100k in NYC allows you to live quite a decent life though, as, well... I know plenty of people who do it. Outside of Manhattan and perhaps the few ultra expensive parts of Brooklyn it still puts you well above the median household income for the US.

One of the big questions I have about CPI-U is the effect of energy prices on the metric. The rate for this year has been largely affected by a drop in gas prices:

Unless I am missing something this appears to be reflected in the overall census bureau's inflation figures for the NYC\New Jersey\Long Island area with no additional weighting despite the lowest car ownership rates in the US which would appear to make the value misleading
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/why-do-the-smartest-cities-have-the-smallest-share-of-cars/283234/

I don't know the answer as to if those values are adjusted for areas with particularly small car ownership. That's an interesting question!

Also - taking the cities and figures in your post from 2010 means that $100,000 in Brooklyn equals $60,000 in Akron OH (the closest to 100 composite index I could find in this other site). Thats not much more than the household median income. I can see why a 40% reduction would make NYC seem fairly expensive

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

Well, median household income for the US is about $50k, so we're talking about 20% higher, and Brooklyn is the second most expensive borough, in large part due to a few ultra expensive sections. Assuming that cost of living is in large part driven by rents there are many parts of Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and the Bronx that are substantially cheaper than that.

Anyways, this has drifted from "$100k in NYC is nothing" to '$100k in NYC is less far above average than people think'. I agree that it's expensive here, but you can live just fine on it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Hell, $100K almost doesn't give you access to being in the upper 20% of earners. The average income of earners in the 80%-90% bracket is $166,149. She's got a bit to go.

So 100K is rich now? I thought it was repubs that thought 250k was the poor house. She literally did not make a single decent point/argument in that entire video. Made if she would've listened in college, instead of looking for every shred of liberalism, she could've formulated a coherent thesis statement and defense.

Are all of you high, or just incredibly stupid?

Making $100k for your job (Mind, you, that doesn't include a possible spouse that also has a job) is well into the Top 10% of average pay.

In fact, according to http://www.whatsmypercent.com/ with $100k you are in the 96th percentile. I'm going to assume this is based on average income by person.

According to WSJ http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/ with $100k set as the household income you are in the 81st percentile. Once again, that is HOUSEHOLD income. I don't know a single couple anymore that has a non-working spouse, so that's pretty much in the minority.

I'm sorry, are you busy feeling stupid now? You damn well should be if you think $100k is chump change, which is what you're coming off like
 
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TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
The average Manhattan apartment is $3,973 a month. So after taxes and rent you are making maybe $1000 a month or $10-$15k a year. Subtract $5k a year for food and $5k a year healthcare deductible. That leaves you with a pittance.
And that is why you take the train in. People need to stop watching Friends and Seinfeld and thinking that is a plausible living situation.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
There was a numskull on these forums a while back who claimed that 100K/yr put you in the category of people who could meet with the POTUS by attending 10K/plate fund-raising dinners. So yeah, I would imagine there are some people dumb enough to think that's rich.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,485
2,362
136
100k/year is a big jump from the 60-80 percentile....won't be long now before the left starts suggesting that it is the cut for upper America, we all know this is the demographic that will foot most of the social justice tab anyway

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

This link is all sorts of depressing and I think it's a shame it was lost among the bickering about whether or not some arbitrary number (100K in this case) makes you rich or not. The top 20% effectively own 90% of the country, and top 1% owns 35%. That is beyond alarming, and nobody seems to give a shit.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
This link is all sorts of depressing and I think it's a shame it was lost among the bickering about whether or not some arbitrary number (100K in this case) makes you rich or not. The top 20% effectively own 90% of the country, and top 1% owns 35%. That is beyond alarming, and nobody seems to give a shit.

Everybody (mostly) gives a shit. No-one can do anything about it because

The top 20% effectively own 90% of the country, and top 1% owns 35%.
 
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