Making a 100 grand and BSing about the "1%"

[fskimospy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/salary-to-live-in-new-york-city-2015-10

ehem.....

Here's what the analysts came up with for a family of four:
•Estimated cost of annual necessities: $84,972
•Suggested annual discretionary spending: $50,983
•Suggested annual savings: $33,989

Suggested annual take-home income: $169,944

So now you're backpedaling to a family of four, and any metric for NYC as a whole is stupidity, considering the insanely variable cost of rents by neighborhood.

Dude, you just don't know what you're talking about. Stop digging.

 

[Blackjack200]

Micro apartments in MANHATTAN are expensive, but NYC has four other boroughs. I would suggest you look at them on Zillow, Trulia, Craigslist, etc and then come back with a better understanding of rents in NYC.

Unbelievable. I literally live in a place that I own where I pay $2k a month in mortgage and maintenance in a good neighborhood and I have some idiot telling me how that's impossible because he knows a guy. The stupidity here sometimes...

You can't live in an Upper West Side penthouse, drive a Bentley, send your 12 kids to private schools and daycare, and fuck the au pare on the weekend for $100k. Checkmate.

 

[glenn1]

Anyways, this has drifted from "$100k in NYC is nothing" to '$100k in NYC is less far above average than people think'. I agree that it's expensive here, but you can live just fine on it.

Is that statement intended to include just single folks, or do you hold that to be true for families as well while maintaining even a passing relationship to typical American middle class or even working class expectations? E.g. you won't have a family of 5 sharing a 1 bed/1 bath apartment, self-reliant on feeding themselves and not needing to visit soup kitchens routinely, etc?

 

[Blackjack200]

Is that statement intended to include just single folks, or do you hold that to be true for families as well while maintaining even a passing relationship to typical American middle class or even working class expectations? E.g. you won't have a family of 5 sharing a 1 bed/1 bath apartment, self-reliant on feeding themselves and not needing to visit soup kitchens routinely, etc?

Are you serious? Here's a suggestion: look at Craigslist housing for NYC. Yes, a family of 4 can get by just fine on $100k without going to soup kitchens or living in a closet. They probably will not live in a SOHO loft or a have a sweeping view of Central Park. They might have to look at a black person every now and then.

 

[Jhhnn]

Again, the real problem IMO is not even the top 1%. It's the top .1% or even the top .01%. Sure the 1% to .2% have done very well for themselves, but the concentration just goes off the charts as you get to the richest of the rich.

Quite true. Families at the 50.01% make very little more than those at the 50.00%. OTOH, families at the 99.99% make many times as much as those at the 99.98%. The distribution curve turns upward & goes nearly vertical between 99.7% & 99.8%.

The average among the top 400 filers is nearly 3x that of the lowest in the group-

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/24/pf/taxes/top-400-tax-filers/

That average is ~400x that of median family income. The reasonable argument that hard work, intelligence & education create a linear income progression breaks down completely above the 99.7%. Above that, rentier ownership holds sway.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Nope, because....

First, household income INCLUDES single person households in addition to multiple person households (families).

Thanks for reiterating EXACTLY what I said, smart one

Making $100k for your job (Mind, you, that doesn't include a possible spouse that also has a job) is well into the Top 10% of average pay.

According to WSJ http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/ with $100k set as the household income you are in the 81st percentile. Once again, that is HOUSEHOLD income. I don't know a single couple anymore that has a non-working spouse, so that's pretty much in the minority.

Second, I'm using the U.S. Treasury's definitions of income distribution (2014 version, broken down by decile), which reads:

Percentiles begin at family size-adjusted cash income of:
$11,197 for 10 to 20
$16,311 for 20 to 30
$21,655 for 30 to 40
$28,448 for 40 to 50 $36,976 50 to 60
$47,339 60 to 70
$59,597 for 70 to 80
$77,997 for 80 to 90
$113,139 for 90 to 95
$160,522 for 95 to 99
$387,400 for 99 to 99.9
$1,526,021 for Top .1.
(This is found at the bottom of the link below.)


https://www.treasury.gov/resource-c...-Distribution-Tax-Burden-Current-Law-2015.pdf

Oh I see - so being in the top 10% isn't good enough for you at $100k pay? You want to hit the trees above you and hope some money falls out from them and into your pockets eh?

So sad and pathetic, you liberals can't understand the concept of someone making more money than you. Live your own life instead of saying "The Jones' have a better car than me, I better one up them!" You must have one sad pathetic life if $100k isn't good enough for you

 

[bozack]

Are you serious? Here's a suggestion: look at Craigslist housing for NYC. Yes, a family of 4 can get by just fine on $100k without going to soup kitchens or living in a closet. They probably will not live in a SOHO loft or a have a sweeping view of Central Park. They might have to look at a black person every now and then.

define "live just fine" as again I live in a comparable yet slightly less expensive area in the Northeast, I have done the numbers here, and even living 20 minutes out from the city it is awfully difficult to have a "good" quality of life for 100K...which would be a decent place to live, some average furniture, transportation, insurance, cost for basic living expenses such as food, savings, and the occasional vacation.

 

[bozack]

So now you're backpedaling to a family of four, and any metric for NYC as a whole is stupidity, considering the insanely variable cost of rents by neighborhood.

Dude, you just don't know what you're talking about. Stop digging.

I was talking about household income, which includes not only single folks but also families....

As I said before, you can scrape by on 100K in a major city, but it isn't what I or I presume many others would consider a "comfortable" existence.

Your reluctance to share details on your situation is telling.

 

[bozack]

my wife and i make well over 100k (combined) and we feel far from "rich" and aren't even close to the "spend money on whatever you want" lifestyle. we're in the DC metro area, about 10 miles north of DC, and it's just not a cheap area to live in general. we would drastically have to change our lifestyle to live on less than 100k/yr where we live.

I lived in that area years ago and even then we had to live outside of DC to be able to afford a modest rental unit and get by with an older car and going out only occasionally.

Where we live now I am 20 minutes out from the city without traffic and if we moved any closer it would be a major impact to our savings efforts, can't even imagine having any type of quality of life living in the city.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I bought my place a year and a half ago, and I'm not telling you what part of the city I live in.

As for what the data suggests, go look it up yourself. It's all freely available on the Internet. Of course you won't know what neighborhoods are shitty and which ones aren't because you're clueless about the place that you're trying to talk about to someone who actually lives there.

You talk about Craigslist's that you have apparently seen, would you mind showing us a couple?

I'll be honest though, not sure why everyone here is arguing over if you can survive with a family on $100k in NY of all places. The last thing I would do is argue that I know more than someone that lives in NY.

Considering he is usually incredibly wrong, I guess I don't blame people for arguing with eskimospy :sneaky: but in this case I'll actually defend him and say that unless you have living experience in NYC, why do you feel you have a legitimate argument with no real basis? Doesn't really matter what your brother in law Bob said it costs, until you look for yourself you have no real idea. People are idiots and in general are horrible at shopping around. People go to the first auto dealership they see and buy new cars instead of looking around. People see houses and could careless what the price tag is and the only thing that matters is if they can get a loan approved or not.

 

[Blackjack200]

define "live just fine" as again I live in a comparable yet slightly less expensive area in the Northeast, I have done the numbers here, and even living 20 minutes out from the city it is awfully difficult to have a "good" quality of life for 100K...which would be a decent place to live, some average furniture, transportation, insurance, cost for basic living expenses such as food, savings, and the occasional vacation.

WTF is this argument? The information isn't exactly secret.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_ren...5,-73.673287,40.506229,-74.284401_rect/10_zm/

There. 500 apartments scattered throughout the 5 boroughs (including Manhattan) for $2,000 to $2,500/month. People willing to live with a modest commute (~30 minutes) can do much better.

 

[glenn1]

Are you serious? Here's a suggestion: look at Craigslist housing for NYC. Yes, a family of 4 can get by just fine on $100k without going to soup kitchens or living in a closet. They probably will not live in a SOHO loft or a have a sweeping view of Central Park. They might have to look at a black person every now and then.

It wasn't an accusatory question. Eskimospy in an earlier post was specifying costs involved with a 1BR apartment which would not be considered acceptable for the average family. Maybe he considers a single professional to be the average person in New York (or especially Manhattan) but we should all be working on the same assumptions when talking about incomes and cost of living. And "get by just fine" is an extremely subjective term, which is why I tried to objectively quantify it. For example, would our "acceptable" baseline be the HUD standard for overcrowding (165 sq ft / per person), the American family home average (median ~675 sq ft), or something in between? Is food security mean just that you're meeting your caloric intake requirements, but with little to no variety in diet and using a lot of processed foods? Etc.

 

[Blackjack200]

You were asking, with sincere curiosity, if people that earn $100k in NYC need to go to soup kitchens to eat?

As an aside, I imagine the demographics of Manhattan skew toward single people and childless couples anyway. There are also people that enjoy living with roommates. http://www.vox.com/2015/11/17/9731796/married-roommates

 

[fskimospy]

I was talking about household income, which includes not only single folks but also families....

As I said before, you can scrape by on 100K in a major city, but it isn't what I or I presume many others would consider a "comfortable" existence.

Your reluctance to share details on your situation is telling.

What do you think it tells, exactly? As I said before, if you bothered to look at any one of a number of real estate sites you could find lots and lots of places, including 2+ bedroom places, for substantially less than $3k a month and in some areas less than $2k a month. Don't take my word for it, look yourself.

Again, I find it funny that you're trying to tell someone that he doesn't know about the city he lives in because you know a guy who told you something and you live in the suburbs of a different city. It's stupid and you should stop.

 

[bozack]

What do you think it tells, exactly? As I said before, if you bothered to look at any one of a number of real estate sites you could find lots and lots of places, including 2+ bedroom places, for substantially less than $3k a month and in some areas less than $2k a month. Don't take my word for it, look yourself.

Again, I find it funny that you're trying to tell someone that he doesn't know about the city he lives in because you know a guy who told you something and you live in the suburbs of a different city. It's stupid and you should stop.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/how...han-100000-in-expensive-cities-like-new-york/

Here you go buddy, what were you saying about being stupid and stopping, would suggest you consider taking your own advice.

 

[bozack]

You were asking, with sincere curiosity, if people that earn $100k in NYC need to go to soup kitchens to eat?

As an aside, I imagine the demographics of Manhattan skew toward single people and childless couples anyway. There are also people that enjoy living with roommates. http://www.vox.com/2015/11/17/9731796/married-roommates

oh this is just ridiculous now, talk about stretching to make your point by trying to suggest that because a few enjoy living with a roommate that it is an acceptable measure of "comfort"

 

[bozack]

Considering he is usually incredibly wrong, I guess I don't blame people for arguing with eskimospy :sneaky: but in this case I'll actually defend him and say that unless you have living experience in NYC, why do you feel you have a legitimate argument with no real basis? Doesn't really matter what your brother in law Bob said it costs, until you look for yourself you have no real idea. People are idiots and in general are horrible at shopping around. People go to the first auto dealership they see and buy new cars instead of looking around. People see houses and could careless what the price tag is and the only thing that matters is if they can get a loan approved or not.

Again, I live in the New England region close to a city which has costs slightly less than NYC, I have done the math for this area and as such know that with 100K/year gross you'd be hard pressed to live comfortably, I cant see how New York is much better in this regard.

 

[fskimospy]

http://www.financialsamurai.com/how...han-100000-in-expensive-cities-like-new-york/

Here you go buddy, what were you saying about being stupid and stopping, would suggest you consider taking your own advice.

You just don't know when to quit when you're less far behind.

From your link:

Rent For One Bedroom On 71st and 2nd Avenue: $3,300

You linked an example of someone living on the upper east side of manhattan with a rent of $3,300 a month. You can get a one bedroom for about half that or less in plenty of parts of the city. You've already been linked to lists of apartments that cost half that. So yes, add an extra $1,000 to $1,650 in disposable income each month to that and then see how much you can live it up while fully funding your 401(k).

You've been shown the data but you ignore it because it's inconvenient. Then you keep linking articles about how it's hard to live on $100k in Manhattan as if the other four boroughs where 80% of the people in NYC live don't exist.

Just admit you were wrong and move on.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't know why you are continuing to argue that someone who makes $100k in NYC can't live comfortably, own property, or save money when the person you are arguing with is literally doing exactly that.

 

[bozack]

I don't know why you are continuing to argue that someone who makes $100k in NYC can't live comfortably, own property, or save money when the person you are arguing with is literally doing exactly that.

Umm didn't you say

While I make more than that

So which is it? you make 100K or you make more than that and can't relate.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Again, I live in the New England region close to a city which has costs slightly less than NYC, I have done the math for this area and as such know that with 100K/year gross you'd be hard pressed to live comfortably, I cant see how New York is much better in this regard.

This is a silly argument IMO. My dad and sister have lived in Manhattan since the mid-80s. My sister lives very comfortably (in a rent-controlled apartment in Stuyvesant Town) and has never made anything approaching $100K annually. My dad has always made more than that amount in today's dollars, so has enjoyed a very nice lifestyle in NYC - certainly nicer than my sister's. In any case I don't think there is any question that a) $100K/year is far from wealthy in New York terms, or that b) one can live with reasonable comfort in NYC for $100K/year.

One thing you may be neglecting to consider is the cost of owning a car (as I presume you do - I myself own two). Unlike elsewhere in New England, car ownership is the exception, rather than the rule in New York, and thus New Yorkers can apply that pro rata portion of their income to other things. My sister has lived in NY since she was 17, and has never even obtained a drivers license. In addition, many New Yorkers enjoy rent controlled living, so their expenses are considerably less than they would be if they were renting at market rate. My sister has a large, nice two-bedroom apartment in a private community with its own amenities and security, for which she pays $1,100/mo, including utilities. That is actually less than she would pay here in Minneapolis for a comparable place.

 

[fskimospy]

Umm didn't you say

So which is it? you make 100K or you make more than that and can't relate.

No, I said this:

There are plenty of areas in Queens and in Brooklyn south of Prospect Park where you can buy a one bedroom where there is both low crime and access to Manhattan in anywhere from about 25-40 minutes, depending on what area you're talking about, and they have affordable mortgage payments for people making about $65-70k or more. Sunnyside, Kensington, Ditmas Park, PLG, etc. (remember, no car payment needed for most people in NYC)

While I make more than that, I bought property in NYC about a year and a half ago and spent a lot of time looking at different areas so I think I have a decent idea of what is out there for regular people.

That means I make more than $65-$70k. You need to work on your reading comprehension. In fact I make very close to $100k if you have to know. So again, do you want to tell me more about how impossible it is to do exactly what I do every day in a city that you don't live in based on what your friends told you and an article you read about living in Manhattan?

 

[fskimospy]

In any case I don't think there is any question that a) $100K/year is far from wealthy in New York terms, or that b) one can live with reasonable comfort in NYC for $100K/year.

Haha, apparently there is for some people.

I would 100% agree with you. $100k is by no means rich here, but it is far, far from just scraping by.

 

[mect]

Just went to Zillow for 30 seconds, did a search for single family properties up to $400k (mortgage payment of 1800/month on a 30 year loan, which after taxes and everything should put you at a little over $2k per month), and you get over 1,000 results. I'd say eski has this one.

 

[mect]

Back on topic though, this girl probably should have spent more time listening to her professors and less time arguing with them. Yes, its a good thing to think critically, but unfortunately she doesn't seem to know what that means. Most people like this just argue because they disagree with the politics, not because they actually understand the issues.

I've never heard anyone at any end of the political spectrum complain about individuals making $100k. Most professors making $100k also would support somewhat higher taxes on their salaries, especially if it would lead to social services like single payer health care. Most professors making that much money would make significantly more in private industry. Chem Prof I knew that made that switch increased his salary by about 6x. Professors aren't in it for the money.