Malaysian airlines has lost a 777

[ElFenix]

iirc there was a mid air collision over Brazil a few years back as well

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Are you referring to the DHL-Aeroflot (or some Russian carrier, it was a Tupolev) midair collision that happened over France IIRC? If so, that was due to a combination of errors, as most aviation accidents are as I am sure you know.

Anyway, the controller was alone and not paying enough attention, and was prosecuted for it. The two airlines TCAS systems gave the pilots adequate warning and proper instructions to avoid collision. But the ATC, finally noticing at the last minute the two were going to collide, gave the opposite instructions of the TCAS to the two pilot crews.

The pilots decided to listen to the ATC, and collided midair. Had they listened to the TCAS, they would have avoided the midair collision.

All lives were lost of course, and the Russian airliner was carrying something like 80% young students on their way to some cultural exchange.

Sad event, and now pilots are instructed to always listen to the TCAS over ATC instructions from what I understand.

No I was talking about the one that happened over brazeil with a Embraer executive jet and a passenger liner.

Ground control in brazil didn't give the pilots an order to go to a certain altitude, and it collided with the passenger liner. Of course the executive jet managed to land somehow, but the passenger plan broke apart in mid air.

The pilots of the Embraer jet had accidentally disabled their transponder which made it impossible for the two jets to know that each other existed.

It was a cascade of human failures.

 

[davmat787]

iirc there was a mid air collision over Brazil a few years back as well

Yep. An Embraer business jet clipped the wing of a GOL 737. The Embraer, with its winglet ripped off which caused heavy vibrations in the wing, landed safely. The 737 did not, went down in the Amazon jungle and all lives were lost IIRC.

There is a lot of traffic between Rio and Manaus. Traffic flying north flies on even number flight levels, and south flies odd flight levels (or visa versa). This ensures separation of 1000 feet at least. I believe the Embraer crew asked for an even number flight level, and ATC erroneously approved, which set the two on a collision course.

 

[davmat787]

No I was talking about the one that happened over brazeil with a Embraer executive jet and a passenger liner.

Ground control in brazil didn't give the pilots an order to go to a certain altitude, and it collided with the passenger liner. Of course the executive jet managed to land somehow, but the passenger plan broke apart in mid air.

The pilots of the Embraer jet had accidentally disabled their transponder which made it impossible for the two jets to know that each other existed.

It was a cascade of human failures.

Ah okay, see my post above.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Posted in the P&N thread:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Malacca-Strait-Malaysian-source-reveals.html

According to Malaysian military, they tracked the plane for 100 miles after it lost contact. And it was headed in the wrong direction.

if they were being tracked for 100 miles while going in the wrong direction, isn't that enough time for the pilots to radio in their status?

 

[Ns1]

if they were being tracked for 100 miles while going in the wrong direction, isn't that enough time for the pilots to radio in their status?

Total loss of electronics leading to a u-turn glide to the ocean?

 

[sactoking]

If this were terrorism, wouldn't someone have claimed responsibility by now? I mean, isn't that kind of the point, that people know what you did and fear you for it?

 

[tynopik]

If this were terrorism, wouldn't someone have claimed responsibility by now? I mean, isn't that kind of the point, that people know what you did and fear you for it?

no one (credibly) claimed responsibility for 9/11 or pan-am 103

 

[JTsyo]

We need those to search for the plane

You think it's cloaked?

 

[Vivendi]

You think it's cloaked?

lol fine.
We need the Mothership Core for it's huge LOS.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Total loss of electronics leading to a u-turn glide to the ocean?

100 mile glide?

 

[-slash-]

:whiste:

 

[z1ggy]

100 mile glide?

Wouldn't the pilots have made a distress call though if both engines blew??

It's possible they could probably glide 100miles given the right conditions, but you'd think one of the top things to do is alert ATC...

 

[Ns1]

100 mile glide?

someone in this thread said the 777 can glide that much. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Wouldn't the pilots have made a distress call though if both engines blew??

It's possible they could probably glide 100miles given the right conditions, but you'd think one of the top things to do is alert ATC...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-plane-scenarios/
Fact: The absence of a debris field suggests the possibility that pilots were forced to ditch the plane and it landed on water without breaking up, finally sinking to the ocean floor.

Analysis: But if that were the case, then why no emergency signal? These planes are able to perform a "miracle on the Hudson" maneuver. They have the ability to glide more than 100 miles and belly land on the water with both engines out, says former 777 pilot Keith Wolzinger, now a civil aviation consultant with The Spectrum Group. During the time it would take for a plane to glide 100 miles, it seems likely that pilots would be able able to send an SOS.

 

[88keys]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-plane-scenarios/
Fact: The absence of a debris field suggests the possibility that pilots were forced to ditch the plane and it landed on water without breaking up, finally sinking to the ocean floor.

Analysis: But if that were the case, then why no emergency signal? These planes are able to perform a "miracle on the Hudson" maneuver. They have the ability to glide more than 100 miles and belly land on the water with both engines out, says former 777 pilot Keith Wolzinger, now a civil aviation consultant with The Spectrum Group. During the time it would take for a plane to glide 100 miles, it seems likely that pilots would be able able to send an SOS.

Water landings with commercial jets are nearly impossible for even the most experienced flight crew. The 'miracle' on the Hudson was most definitely a miracle.

 

[88keys]

You seriously have to wonder? Would you say cell service 30k feet above a city like New York or Los Angels would be normal?

I wonder because I'm not sure. So I ask questions.

I don't pull shit out of my ass and state it as fact.

If you think you already know everything, don't expect to learn any more than what you already 'know'.

 

[Triumph]

Water landings with commercial jets are nearly impossible for even the most experienced flight crew. The 'miracle' on the Hudson was most definitely a miracle.

Why not at least try if you have nothing left to lose? You fuck it up, and you start tumbling on impact, then you'd have lots of debris spread about. Which we would have found by now.

 

[Johnnie]

New Information Could Change Everything
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...tery-new-information-could-change-everything/

 

[John Connor]

someone in this thread said the 777 can glide that much. correct me if i'm wrong.

"91 nautical miles (169 km) from its flight level of 37,000 feet"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9#Incident

 

[88keys]

Why not at least try if you have nothing left to lose? You fuck it up, and you start tumbling on impact, then you'd have lots of debris spread about. Which we would have found by now.

I didn't suggest that they wouldn't or shouldn't have tried. If it's a pilot's only option, they should take it.

But the person I responded to made it sound as though it were something that could be done everyday, and I assure you that I cannot.

The amount of debris would depend on how successful (or not) the water landing was. The best realistic scenario a pilot could hope for is to lose the tail and wing sections of the plane and have a 50% survival rate on impact. In which case you're talking about several large pieces that would sink quickly only leaving a handful of smaller pieces floating around... And god only knows where they would end up.

Although considering they have found no trace of the plane after all this time make me think that the plane is nowhere near where they have been looking. Especially if the reports that the plane went off course are confirmed.

If that's the case, the pilots might have tried to steer the plane back to it's point of origin in the wake of whatever failures they had experienced. Or the plane was hijacked. It could be years before they find this jet.

 

[benzylic]

What's the procedure if an aircraft loses communications and is flying in the blind. The pilot may have decided to return to Kuala Lumpur and tried to choose a route he felt limited the risk of encountering other air traffic, then follow the coast back to the airport.

This whole story just gets stranger by the day.

"91 nautical miles (169 km) from its flight level of 37,000 feet"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9#Incident

I've always loved that captains announcement to the passengers.

 

[88keys]

I recall one instance when the captain announced "This is the worst thing you'll ever experience in your life"

I know it's completely unreasonable to be afraid of flying and I should avoid watching "Air Crash Investigations" while I'm planning to take a jet to The Bahamas later this year, but all this shit makes me want to buy a whole bottle of sleeping pills so I can swallow them all if the plane starts to crash and hope that I'll be unconscious before impact.

 

[davmat787]

100 mile glide?

You might be surprised that commercial airliners typically have a glide ratio around 3:1. That is, for every 3 feet forward glided, they will lose 1 foot of altitude. This of course will vary depending on what speed they started the glide, head winds, and other factors, but if an airliner is cruising at 36,000 feet, it could make 100 miles.

 

[iamwiz82]

The Gimli Glider had a glideslope of 10-12:1. Impressive stuff.