Malaysian airlines has lost a 777

[tynopik]

The timing, I would assume. Assuming you assume that the plane assumed a relatively straight flight path at a typical cruising speed.

But that relies on...wait for it...assumption. If could have flown in circles for all anyone knows.

No, I'm pretty sure it has to do with which antennas received the signal on the satellite or what other satellites did/did not receive the signal

And although the Malaysian prime minister is being very delicate about his wording, he's basically saying 'It's in China you morons'

 

[Mark R]

anybody knows the rationale for the two red arcs (and a break in the middle) on the either side? what makes them so certain that it is not between the two red arcs? how is that portion ruled out?

Just a guess, but the red arcs are over sea, and the unshaded arcs are over land, and the so the plane would have been detected on RADAR. The lack of any RADAR detection rules out the possibility that it was in the unshaded area.

What I wonder why the position is localised to an arc. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[tynopik]

What I wonder why the position is localised to an arc. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

That arc describes points that are equidistant from the satellite. Basically they are measuring the ping time and using that to determine how far it was from the satellite.

 

[sontakke]

Timing? How? They don't have ping times, correct? Satellite is passive. Or do the sender has atomic clock synchronized with the satellite and puts his time stamp in the ping? Why would a satellite trust incoming ping to have the accurate time stamp? The communication is initiated by the plane, satellite can not even use the round trip time to calculate the distance. I understand that a satellite has a view of the subset of earth surface area at a time the ping was received. I still do not get how it knows the incident angle of the incoming signal but may be it does. Even knowing the angle, I still do not understand the sol called "broken arc" theory. The pings are spaced an hour apart. A plane could be anywhere in any direction after the last ping which in itself does not give a specific location but a range of possible locations.

I am strongly suspecting that one of the air force has shot the hijacked plane down and is playing dumb until some another nation rats them out. There is no way an unidentified 777 flew over bunch of nations without being detected. Nothing else is plausible.

If country A has blow in it up, I am betting it will NOT volunteer that information until forced by the country B, C or D.

 

[tynopik]

Timing? How? They don't have ping times, correct? Satellite is passive.

No, the satellite is not passive. It sends out a query, the plane responds. The time between the query and the response tells you how far away it is

Even knowing the angle, I still do not understand the sol called "broken arc" theory.

I think it has to do with the orientation of the antennas the signal was received on. In a crude example, one set of antennas might receive signals from north and south while another set of antennas receive signals from east and west.

 

[skyking]

:thumbsup:
Only likely explanation, well done.

 

[BUTCH1]

No, the satellite is not passive. It sends out a query, the plane responds. The time between the query and the response tells you how far away it is



I think it has to do with the orientation of the antennas the signal was received on. In a crude example, one set of antennas might receive signals from north and south while another set of antennas receive signals from east and west.

Yea, and since this system has to rely on more than one satellite one would think that triangulation would be possible to give them an idea where the plane was when the signals stopped being sent, this method is used to determine the area a cell phone transmits from. On the other hand if there was only one satellite receiving the signal at the time then triangulation would not be possible because it relays on the time difference it takes for the signal to be received by one satellite vs another..

 

[Mark R]

Yea, and since this system has to rely on more than one satellite one would think that triangulation would be possible to give them an idea where the plane was when the signals stopped being sent, this method is used to determine the area a cell phone transmits from. On the other hand if there was only one satellite receiving the signal at the time then triangulation would not be possible because it relays on the time difference it takes for the signal to be received by one satellite vs another..

The pinpointed satellite is geosync based on location/altitude. It would fit with an Inmarsat 3 sat which cover SE asia, and fits with the fact that Inmarsat is the carrier for most aircraft telemetry.

The nearest other inmarsat satellite is out over the mid pacific, and this area is right at the edge of its coverage. I'm not sure that triangulation is likely, and even if it was, the arc segments should be symmetrical about the equator.

I think the only plausible explanation is ping time and RADAR.

 

[BUTCH1]

The pinpointed satellite is geosync based on location/altitude. It would fit with an Inmarsat 3 sat which cover SE asia, and fits with the fact that Inmarsat is the carrier for most aircraft telemetry.

The nearest other inmarsat satellite is out over the mid pacific, and this area is right at the edge of its coverage. I'm not sure that triangulation is likely, and even if it was, the arc segments should be symmetrical about the equator.

I think the only plausible explanation is ping time and RADAR.

Yea, ping time would reveal the distance to the receiving satellite but not from it's exact location. Since India has naval assets at the 4 airfields in that island chain and they have already reported that it didn't land in any of those, (assuming it even could given the size of a 777 and the likelihood that those are small runways) it's looking more and more that it hit the water intact somewhere in the Indian ocean and quickly sank. I know the black boxes are supposed to beep for 30 days but IDK how close one would have to be to hear it, a small positive about the boxes, the ones from AirFrance 447 survived for 2 years at the bottom of the Atlantic@ 12,000 ft and all the data was able to be recovered from them. it's looking like it may take years using side-scanning sonar to eventually find this plane as the Indian ocean is also quite deep in many places..

 

[brainhulk]

Im having a hard time thinking it went into the Indian ocean. Whoever hijacked was skilled and seemed liked this was planned out carefully. if he was just going to crash it, I don't think I would have picked the indian ocean.

 

[TangoJuliet]

dumb

http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html

 

[KeithP]

Why would you keep all those people alive if you just wanted the plane?

I would assume the terrorists want the plane and the passengers intact.

Steal a plane full of people, aka hostages. Arrange for landing and refueling. Get it back in the air headed towards a target at some point (which might not happen right away).

Either someone's military will have to shoot the plane down or the plane reaches its target and crashes into the objective.

Such a scenario would be quite difficult to pull off which is why I think it is what is happening. The payoff for success, from the terrorists standpoint, would be huge and even if they don't achieve their ultimate goal it will probably still end with a crashed plan and total loss of all onboard.

-KeithP

 

[Jeff7]

Why would the makers of an inter-stellar craft want a 777? That would be akin to the owner of a Corvette stealing a $5 hot-wheels toy. Unless they are fascinated by human DNA, in that scenario abducting a large plane like the triple 7 would make sense, lot's of sample's and no one ever see's anything..

Collector's item.


"Aerial primate transport tubes! Collect them all!

Now available: Carbon-composite tubes!!!"

 

[yuchai]

Could it be that the broken arc is there because at that particular distance from the satellite the plane is at an altitude that is impossible, i.e. too low? Just a thought.

 

[norseamd]

 

[MaxFusion16]

http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/news/article/greek-ship-looking-for-lost-plane-debris

hmm....the plane was probably on dry land when it last sent satellite signals.

tom clancy, you taking notes??

 

[z1ggy]

Not sure how accurate but I just read an article from r/worldnews saying the last signal was sent 1,000 west of Perth Australia. I checked a map and it's all the way on the south western tip 0_o

 

[MomentsofSanity]

http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/news/article/greek-ship-looking-for-lost-plane-debris

hmm....the plane was probably on dry land when it last sent satellite signals.

tom clancy, you taking notes??

The areas it would have to pass through were It over land include heavily controlled military airspace. Radar would have picked it up for sure.

 

[brainhulk]

Pilot's wife and kids moved out day before plane went missing

 

[AdamantC]

I'm calling Langoliers at this point.

 

[Dari]

Pilot's wife and kids moved out day before plane went missing

Interesting. First solid lead in a while.

 

[Pardus]

You unlock this door with the key of imagination.

Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas.

Malaysia Flight #370 with it's 12 crew members and 227 passengers. Their flight was schedule for Beijing,China.

But little do they know they cross over into..."The Twilight Zone".

 

[rudeguy]

Interesting. First solid lead in a while.

How is that a "solid lead"?

 

[Dari]

How is that a "solid lead"?

It is when almost everything else has been nebulous. It says a lot about his state of mind. Now, investigators can ask other coworkers his thoughts and demeanor on the days leading up to the fateful flight, including the day itself.

 

[alkemyst]

How is that a "solid lead"?

If true, that is a solid lead to the mind-set of the wife.

Based on the rest of the evidence, this is looking like a hi-jack.