Malaysian airlines has lost a 777

[Red Squirrel]

Do these pings actually send a burst of data that can be translated into GPS coords, or is it basically like a "beep" being sent by a radio transmitter? Since if it's just a beep or other basic burst of data, the search area is still going to be fairly huge. Basically 2 times the radius of the transmitter's range. If they got the signal, it means the black box could be anywhere with nn miles radius from where the ping was picked up, basically, so they have to search all around that point. Though I imagine with the multiple pings, based on signal strength they may be able to triangulate to some extent.

 

[Number1]

Do these pings actually send a burst of data that can be translated into GPS coords, or is it basically like a "beep" being sent by a radio transmitter? Since if it's just a beep or other basic burst of data, the search area is still going to be fairly huge. Basically 2 times the radius of the transmitter's range. If they got the signal, it means the black box could be anywhere with nn miles radius from where the ping was picked up, basically, so they have to search all around that point. Though I imagine with the multiple pings, based on signal strength they may be able to triangulate to some extent.

From google search:

Black boxes are equipped with an underwater locator beacon (ULB). If you look at the picture of a black box, you will almost always see a small, cylindrical object attached to one end of the device. While it doubles as a carrying handle, this cylinder is actually a beacon.
If a plane crashes into the water, the beacon sends out an ultrasonic pulse that cannot be heard by human ears but is readily detectable by sonar and acoustical locating equipment. There is a submergence sensor on the side of the beacon that looks like a bull's-eye. When water touches this sensor, the beacon is activated.
The beacon sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4,267 meters). Once the beacon begins pinging, it pings once per second for 30 days. This beacon is powered by a battery that has a shelf life of six years. In rare instances, the beacon may get snapped off during a high-impact collision.

 

[John Connor]

No GPS data is sent to answer you question...

 

[slayer202]

a fifth signal? I clearly don't understand how this works. How do they keep drifting in and out of range? When they hear a ping, shouldn't they be able to get closer? The range of the ping is a few miles right? Even if they have a rough estimate of where it is, if they can't consistently locate the pings, how are they ever going to find pieces at the bottom of the ocean. Or are they just moving around, picking up coordinates that they think might be at the outer ranges of the black box, so that they can triangulate eventually? bleh

 

[Fern]

a fifth signal? I clearly don't understand how this works. How do they keep drifting in and out of range? When they hear a ping, shouldn't they be able to get closer? The range of the ping is a few miles right? Even if they have a rough estimate of where it is, if they can't consistently locate the pings, how are they ever going to find pieces at the bottom of the ocean. Or are they just moving around, picking up coordinates that they think might be at the outer ranges of the black box, so that they can triangulate eventually? bleh

The topography of the ocean floor can affect the signal. large rocks/mountains, undersea cliffs etc can cause the signal to change direction when it bounces off them or is simply blocked.

Thermoclines can do the same thing. And if they are shifting, and I suspect they would, you can get a very confusing picture.

IIRC, there are two boxes with a pinger. If the plane broke apart the boxes could be different locations. That could cause confusion too I would think.

I heard one search expert offer a theory: It might be possible the plane itself, or the part with a box, is shifting position. It may have some floatation remaining and is being moved around by currents.

Fern

 

[John Connor]

What the pings sound like. It's not the best source. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...ssible-pings-detected-in-jet-search-1.2605073

 

[LTC8K6]

Do these pings actually send a burst of data that can be translated into GPS coords, or is it basically like a "beep" being sent by a radio transmitter? Since if it's just a beep or other basic burst of data, the search area is still going to be fairly huge. Basically 2 times the radius of the transmitter's range. If they got the signal, it means the black box could be anywhere with nn miles radius from where the ping was picked up, basically, so they have to search all around that point. Though I imagine with the multiple pings, based on signal strength they may be able to triangulate to some extent.

It's a piezo transducer. It's not a beep. It's more like someone tapping on something to attract attention.

 

[LTC8K6]

What the pings sound like. It's not the best source. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...ssible-pings-detected-in-jet-search-1.2605073

We can't hear the pings. So I'm not sure what that sound is supposed to be. Perhaps just processed to allow the operator to hear a sound that corresponds?

 

[BUTCH1]

The topography of the ocean floor can affect the signal. large rocks/mountains, undersea cliffs etc can cause the signal to change direction when it bounces off them or is simply blocked.

Thermoclines can do the same thing. And if they are shifting, and I suspect they would, you can get a very confusing picture.

IIRC, there are two boxes with a pinger. If the plane broke apart the boxes could be different locations. That could cause confusion too I would think.

I heard one search expert offer a theory: It might be possible the plane itself, or the part with a box, is shifting position. It may have some floatation remaining and is being moved around by currents.

Fern

WW2 Submarine captains would seek out thermoclines if they were being pursued, they had the possibility of confusing a sonar operator (if they were lucky).

 

[LTC8K6]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk-leqdCMAAq9bo.jpg
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk_mq74CUAEId8u.jpg:large

Rumors flying...

 

[Sam25]

Just read this a little while back, apparently the Co-pilot had made a call when the aircraft was flying at low altitudes near Penang:

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/call-traced-to-co-pilot-s-phone-1.562612

Keeps getting more and more mysterious!

 

[brainhulk]

Sorry haven't been following for awhile. Has any verified debris been found? Or just black box pings? Is it possible for everything to sink after an air to water impact?

 

[Sam25]

Sorry haven't been following for awhile. Has any verified debris been found? Or just black box pings? Is it possible for everything to sink after an air to water impact?

Nope, no debris has been found yet. This is the latest report that I read:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/flight-370-search-narrows-abbott-says-20140412-36k5y.html

 

[Ruptga]

Have they tried combing the ocean yet?

 

[BarkingGhostar]

The lack of any debris of any kind speaks a lot to me.

 

[Ruptga]

Does it, or is that just the lizard people? Put on your hat and see if you still hear it.

 

[norseamd]

Does it, or is that just the lizard people? Put on your hat and see if you still hear it.

sahuagin raid?

 

[brainhulk]

Have they tried combing the ocean yet?

I combed it in post #397. Didn't really find anything useful

 

[Pardus]

CNN Breaking News: We don't know anything yet.

Disappeared Saturday, March 8, fast forward 36 days later Saturday, April 12th, only thing found was floating garbage.

 

[norseamd]

I combed it in post #397. Didn't really find anything useful

combing the desert or ocean

what would it be like for a comb on the obama head

 

[brainhulk]

This crash is so old, there is a documentary about it on the smithsonian channel

 

[BUTCH1]

CNN Breaking News: We don't know anything yet.

Disappeared Saturday, March 8, fast forward 36 days later Saturday, April 12th, only thing found was floating garbage.

LOL, every and I mean EVERY '70's disaster movie HAD to include George Kennedy, then Jack Lemmon, Jimmy Stewart still trying to rake a few $$'s that late in their carrier's, these were one time first-rate actors who commanded the big bucks, kinda sad to see them lowering themselves to be in that kind of crap movie.

 

[squarecut1]

Looking increasingly unlikely that they will find the black box, even if they find the wreckage, which is a big if in itself.

They may never ever know what happened.

What an event it has been, in this day and age of high end technology. A humbling feeling.

 

[Kaido]

They have a semi-update on the flight path:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

alaysia Airlines Flight 370 drastically changed course then soared to near its peak altitude, a senior Malaysian aviation source said -- adding yet another wrinkle to the enigma of the plane's last flight.

Before disappearing from radar screens on March 8, the commercial airliner deviated from its planned route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing by turning leftward over water while it was still inside Vietnamese airspace, the Malaysian aviation source told CNN's Nic Robertson.

The aircraft then climbed to 39,000 feet, just short of the Boeing 777-200ER's 41,000-foot safe operating limit, and maintained that altitude for about 20 minutes over the Malaysian Peninsula before beginning to descend, the source said.

So if this information is to be believed:

1. Turned left over the water, while in Vietnam's airspace
2. Climbed to 39,00 feet (41k max safe ceiling), for 20 minutes
3. Then it began to descend

Most obvious answer would be some sort of terrorist act, or one of the pilots taking some kind of action. But who knows...it turned off the flight path & flew really high for awhile. Also, the search cost is said to be insane:

A prolonged undersea search by private contractors could cost a "ballpark rough estimate" of $234 million, said Dolan.

 

[crashtech]

Shows how much we know that we can lose one of the largest machines we make right here on our own planet.