Malaysian airlines has lost a 777

[skyking]

John, hull loss means the aircraft was destroyed beyond repair. It is not a type of accident or incident, but the end result.
A hull loss could be the result of a tornado to a parked aircraft, for example.
EDIT:
Here is an example. This DC-8 in flight fire resulted in a hull loss, even though it was landed successfully in one piece.
http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/DC87,_Philadelphia_USA,_2006_%28FIRE%29

 

[Triumph]

2 additional people on the manifest are being investigated for using stolen passports bringing the total to 4.
http://my.news.yahoo.com/two-more-e...ect-identities-onboard-missing-005206266.html
All four tickets were purchased on the codeshare China Eastern which only sold 7 tickets for the flight. This could be drug smuggling and unrelated or it could be a plot. The FBI is investigating the missing plane and China has stepped up its airport security.

I agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions, I'm betting smugglers/criminals of various types use stolen passports to travel all the time. Just so happens that this time they were on a plane that went down.

 

[BUTCH1]

You have valid points, except it been 24 hours or so and nothing has been found. Maybe a worm hole opened up and the plane went back in time.

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-twilight-zone/watch/the-odyssey-of-flight-33-12638/

Thanks, you forced me to watch the whole episode LOL. I'm sure it's been mentioned already in the thread but aren't the "black boxes" capable of transmitting some kind of signal for a certain amount of time?, I'm thinking catastrophic failure like a fuel tank explosion or bomb that exploded and crippled the planes power systems at the same time. RIP to those who lost their lives and I hope the FAA and whatever international agency can get a grip as to what happened to this craft and some closure for the families involved.

 

[88keys]

That and there doesn't seem to be much else here that would indicate terrorism. Islamic terrorists would either be targeting a western nation or Russia. That, and they usually claim responsibility for the attack shortly afterward.

 

[RaistlinZ]

Even if the plane lost power suddenly wouldn't it still register on satellite? For it to suddenly be gone from thin air makes me think explosion or alien abduction.

 

[88keys]

I don't think satellites are used to track planes. At least not in real time.

 

[dmcowen674]

Looking at Radar sweep they tried to turn back and went into death spiral.

The turn may have just been the beginning of death spiral though after loss of all power including communications.

Interesting that no debris found on surface of the water yet.

 

[BUTCH1]

Even if the plane lost power suddenly wouldn't it still register on satellite? For it to suddenly be gone from thin air makes me think explosion or alien abduction.

A plane that lost engine thrust at cruising altitude would still be able to use it's radio systems, automatic telemetry systems, and transponder because of built-in "redundancy", meaning there are APU's (auxiliary power units) that would kick in and keep power to critical systems going, redundancy also means there is a minimum of 3 separate hydraulic systems (used to move control surfaces). What's frustrating to officials is that even with all the technology and robust design of modern aircraft something like this can still happen. Planes are tracked by ground-based radar BTW, not satellite's. Also modern airlines have the capability to monitor a planes flight characteristics while in-flight, speed, location, pilot control inputs, engine operating conditions are constantly relayed back to an airlines maintenance division so if something is amiss the pilots didn't notice they can be contacted by the airline and made aware of a potential problem. I'm not thinking Alien abduction, a species with technology advanced enough to traverse trillions of miles to our planet would not need a 777, if you've got a Corvette or Mercedes S class would you be interested in abducting a tricycle??.

 

[BUTCH1]

Looking at Radar sweep they tried to turn back and went into death spiral.

The turn may have just been the beginning of death spiral though after loss of all power including communications.

Interesting that no debris found on surface of the water yet.

Yea, what's also interesting that even if electrical power generated by the engines was lost AND failure of the APU's a plane would STILL be able to use battery power alone to transmit a mayday. these pilots must have had their "hands full" as the plane was descending rapidly and didn't have time to call out a mayday or an explosion halfway through the turn just ripped it into pieces negating the ability to transmit anything..

 

[88keys]

A plane that lost engine thrust at cruising altitude would still be able to use it's radio systems, automatic telemetry systems, and transponder because of built-in "redundancy", meaning there are APU's (auxiliary power units) that would kick in and keep power to critical systems going, redundancy also means there is a minimum of 3 separate hydraulic systems (used to move control surfaces). What's frustrating to officials is that even with all the technology and robust design of modern aircraft something like this can still happen.

Yes, if they lose control and/or their gauges, the plane will most likely stall.

There was a problem with 737s some years ago that involved the rudder getting stuck into a position that would abruptly cause the plane to go into a nose dive. I know it took them awhile to figure that out.

I wonder if it could be something similar.

Also to my knowledge, the issue with TWA 800 was not fully resolved and can potentially occur with any jumbo jet. Though I doubt it's hot enough over there right now to cause that. Unless something else might have heated the fuel. I know nitrogen is now used to help prevent that, but I don't think it's 100% effective.


Could also have been a fire that started in the cabin and spread. That's another thing, fires on airplanes spread very fast and there is very little people can do to locate and extinguish them before it's too late.

 

[Ns1]

Jessica Yu@UjessU
Searchers report spotting plane debris not far from #MH370 's intended flight path http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702304732804579427991198487418.html

hmmm

 

[pillage2001]

Hey man, sorry for these troubles. How are you?

Same old same old....flying to the States in a month's time though. Kinda feeling abit anxious about it...ahah...how have you been??

They still haven't found the plane.....sadly.....Have a high school senior in there.....and another friend who has colleagues in there. sigh.....

 

[dmcowen674]

hmmm

Looks like the debris is not concentrated in one area so it must have gone into pieces up at 35K and rained down debris all over the place.

 

[Dari]

That and there doesn't seem to be much else here that would indicate terrorism. Islamic terrorists would either be targeting a western nation or Russia. That, and they usually claim responsibility for the attack shortly afterward.

No they do not claim responsibility "shortly afterward." I've already given an example of this before. Also, China is a new target considering how badly they treat their Muslims and those Muslims have been fighting back.

 

[88keys]

No they do not claim responsibility "shortly afterward." I've already given an example of this before. Also, China is a new target considering how badly they treat their Muslims and those Muslims have been fighting back.

Go back and re-read my post.

That and there doesn't seem to be much else here that would indicate terrorism. Islamic terrorists would either be targeting a western nation or Russia. That, and they usually claim responsibility for the attack shortly afterward.

Notice that you spoke in absolute terms and I didn't. Furthermore you only cited one example of when responsibility was not declared shortly after which only makes it an exception, not the rule.

As for China being a target; Perhaps, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support that idea.


Get some reading comprehension skills and do some research so you will know what you're talking about next time you post.

 

[Anubis]

one thing about it being blown up that does not fit is there would be debris everywhere, not easy to incinerate everything on the plane, anything the floats would be all over the place

 

[LegendKiller]

Looks like the debris is not concentrated in one area so it must have gone into pieces up at 35K and rained down debris all over the place.

We should all feel better now. Dave is on the case.


Howd that minneapolis bridge collapse, dave? Ohhh yeah, it was an earthquake according to you.

 

[LTC8K6]

Loss of both engines would not result in an immediate stall unless there was pilot error. A 777 can glide a long way without engines from 35,000 feet.

This is a famous 767 glider:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

The 777 has a RAT to provide some electrical and hydraulic power in the event that all other sources have failed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine

777 on a test flight with RAT door open and RAT visible, just behind the wing root on the fuselage.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/4/1/1160144.jpg

 

[LTC8K6]

http://i.imgur.com/Ga163zV.jpg

American 777 with RAT being tested.

 

[88keys]

Loss of both engines would not result in an immediate stall unless there was pilot error. A 777 can glide a long way without engines from 35,000 feet.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/4/1/1160144.jpg

And as long as the hydraulics don't fail along with the engines.

 

[LTC8K6]

The 777's RAT will provide hydraulic power and 7.5Kw of electrical power to keep basic functions operating, assuming the plane is still in one piece.

You would need a lot of failures to get down to relying on the RAT.

There are 3 120Kw generators on a 777. One per engine, and one with the APU. There is a backup 20Kw generator in each engine for the flight control systems.

 

[LTC8K6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfB2EP71hqY

 

[88keys]

The 777's RAT will provide hydraulic power and 7.5Kw of electrical power to keep basic functions operating, assuming the plane is still in one piece.

You would need a lot of failures to get down to relying on the RAT.

There are 3 120Kw generators on a 777. One per engine, and one with the APU. There is a backup 20Kw generator in each engine for the flight control systems.

That's true, but not impossible. I know plane crashes have occurred under similar circumstances.

Though it is rarely a single malfunction or error, the odds of the specific chain of events occurring that would cause a Jumbo Jet crash is infinitesimally low, but they do happen.

I feel that an explosion is highly unlikely though. Jet fuel ignites instantaneously and debris would be scattered everywhere (as pointed out earlier). I doubt that an explosion would have left an oil slick behind.

Based on what little evidence there is, I feel that something caused the plane stall abruptly.

 

[Michael]

I worked for AlliedSignal (now Honeywell) for years. I remember being in a factory in Torrence and seeing a short propeller on a shaft. I asked what that was and they explained to me that it is to turn a generator when all other power sources fail.

Planes have so much redundancy on the things that engineers can imagine that it really is hard for one failure to bring one down.

My pilot friends have told me that a 777 can glide for a really long time if both engines fail.

Michael

 

[videogames101]

why speculate, just wait until we have more information...