Malaysian airlines has lost a 777

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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
"Without a trace" is not a valid requirement for similar cases. "Traces" of this flight were absolutely found, as expected. If you look at most ocean disappearances, there was always a period of time before traces were found. If I recall correctly, similar cases went "without a trace" for weeks/months/years before the expected "traces" (usually aircraft fragments and passenger property) were found.

It didn't make sense to have a bunch of hysteria in the days and weeks immediately following the disappearance. It only became unusual as more time passed and they hadn't found anything.

As with the other similar cases, they eventually found fragments.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,992
5,888
126
"Without a trace" is not a valid requirement for similar cases. "Traces" of this flight were absolutely found, as expected. If you look at most ocean disappearances, there was always a period of time before traces were found. If I recall correctly, similar cases went "without a trace" for weeks/months/years before the expected "traces" (usually aircraft fragments and passenger property) were found.

It didn't make sense to have a bunch of hysteria in the days and weeks immediately following the disappearance. It only became unusual as more time passed and they hadn't found anything.

As with the other similar cases, they eventually found fragments.
LOL.

You might as well just admit you were wrong because you are going to just keep digging and digging.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
Are you asserting that Malaysia Flight 370 disappeared "without a trace?"

Are you asserting that in the last 30 years other fully loaded airlines have disappeared this completely? You said that it's happened "Multiple times in the last 30 years". When asked to cite which other times you have failed utterly, completely and spectacularly. So quit that pathetic little bitch move of trying to parse words like "without a trace". You claimed that other similar disappearances have happened multiple times in the last 30 years.

NAME ONE.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,428
2,357
136
Are you asserting that in the last 30 years other fully loaded airlines have disappeared this completely? You said that it's happened "Multiple times in the last 30 years". When asked to cite which other times you have failed utterly, completely and spectacularly. So quit that pathetic little bitch move of trying to parse words like "without a trace". You claimed that other similar disappearances have happened multiple times in the last 30 years.

NAME ONE.
How about 5 passenger flights (final coordinates - unknown), from August 1986 - Jan 1995. Not counting Cargo/Delivery/Air Force flights that disappeared.

This is a list of aircraft, aviators or air passengers who have disappeared in flight for reasons that have never been definitely determined, particularly in cases where the air frame of the aircraft or body of the person has never been recovered.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missing_aircraft
 
Last edited:

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,363
5,322
146
Is a 777 that much bigger than the 727 on that list, when placed in the ocean?
What may seem like a huge plane is nothing in the jungles or oceans.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,067
9,858
136
Yeah, because those tiny ass planes are the same as a 777 carrying nearly 300 people or however many it had on board.
On that list since 1980 there's really only 2 that might qualify... the 727 with only 1 person missing(maybe 2 or 3 at most) & the one with 54 missing but a much smaller plane.
Even if you stretch it & add up all the missing on those flights that may also qualify as being in the same category as the 777 disappearance, it's less than 100 all told.
So yeah, it's not the same at all to me.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
How about 5 passenger flights (final coordinates - unknown), from August 1986 - Jan 1995. Not counting Cargo/Delivery/Air Force flights that disappeared.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missing_aircraft
Even that list is narrowing it too far. It should include things listed as "found."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft#1987

Lots of people incorrectly think nothing was ever found, but that's just not true.

It crashed. Time passed. Debris was found.

This is not significantly different from many other ocean crashes. Often, floating debris and washed-up debris is all you ever find for a mid-ocean crash, and that's exactly what was found. Maybe sometimes an oil slick is found that has migrated somewhere else from the actual site of the crash. The main difference here was the amount of time before debris was found, and that's understandable (considering the pilot was possibly suicidal and took steps to make it difficult). A suicidal pilot is also nothing new. The 24-hour cable news networks made a big deal about it (HUGE understatement) before any significant amount of time had passed. They knew they had the public in a frenzy and tried to keep them tuned-in all day, every day, for weeks. Yes, a passenger plane crash is immediately newsworthy -- even before days had passed with little-or-nothing found. All passengers and crew would be presumed dead with a mid-ocean crash. However, the 24-hour news networks fixated on it. "ALERT!!!" interruptions occurred repeatedly during actual news with no new update, or the same "update" they had been repeating all day long. Sometimes it was just that another country/organization was searching another area. Many times they just had absolutely nothing except another person to talk speculatively with. That was infuriating!

With a mid-ocean crash, there's ALWAYS some time before fragments are found. It takes time to get out there. Currents move things and it's not easy to find the debris immediately. The pilot was probably suicidal (nothing new) so it's no stretch to think he'd take steps to make it difficult to find anything (no transmissions, turn off equipment, fly low, etc).

The 24-hour news networks were making a HUUUUUGE deal out of this immediately after it happened. That was my criticism. They were doing this immediately. The networks knew most of their increased viewership were only watching for updates on the hyped scenario. Rather than stealing ratings from each other, the networks pretty much all saw huge ratings increases. Their existing viewers watched much more than they normally did. Lots of people that didn't normally watch 24-hour cable news started watching.

I made my comment based on vague recollections of past incidents. I know that one of them took place in the Atlantic. I've been working and spending all of my free time remotely assisting my sister for the past few days. My time recently has been extremely limited. The only computer I have access to is at work. I looked up the earliest passenger jet oceanic crash I found in the 30 year period (link), but the wiki page had no information I could find about how much time it took to find debris. It did say this: "The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were not located." -- and that incident was close enough to civilization that witnesses on land actually heard the mid-air explosion.

My point was that it takes time to find debris. Various factors affect how long it takes. The 24-hour cable news networks immediately fixated and sensationalized to a degree I had never seen before (nor since) -- without any hesitation. As expected, debris was found.

If you want to believe this is the most unprecedented airliner crash, be my guest. Yes, there's an important news story here (as with any passenger airline crash) -- but it doesn't warrant the kind of nonsense sensationalism we got. Most of you people think it's more special than it really is, specifically because you got caught-up in the hysteria bandwagon.
 
Last edited:

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
My point was that it takes time to find debris. Various factors affect how long it takes. The 24-hour cable news networks immediately fixated and sensationalized to a degree I had never seen before (nor since) -- without any hesitation. As expected, debris was found.

If you want to believe this is the most unprecedented airliner crash, be my guest. Yes, there's an important news story here (as with any passenger airline crash) -- but it doesn't warrant the kind of nonsense sensationalism we got. Most of you people think it's more special than it really is, specifically because you got caught-up in the hysteria bandwagon.

No one said "this is the most unprecedented airliner crash" however a 777 disappearing with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board is going to get major coverage across the board. Airline crashes in general always receive this kind of coverage and it typically dies off pretty quickly once it becomes obvious what the likely cause was. The coverage of this incident initially was no more over the top than the coverage of Air France 447 however unlike Air France after 2 weeks there was still no debris found anywhere, the publicly released information regarding the uncertainty of the flight path further increased the interest since people overwhelmingly believe that in 2014 given the amount of satellite tracking and technology available it would have been impossible to not know exactly where along a flight path a modern commercial airliner dropped off the radar. The first debris found confirmed to be from this aircraft did not happen for 1 year and 3 months after the initial disappearance. The perception that the coverage was over sensationalized probably comes from the fact that CNN was in 3rd place and losing ratings among the 3 cable news networks and found that by going balls to the wall with this story had an immediate effect on their ratings. They were the only news network that almost solely focused on this story to the point that they became the butt of jokes however as noted in the Huffington Post they ended up being rewarded for this despite going so far as to have on on air personality speculate that alien abduction might have been responsible for the missing aircraft.
 

yuchai

Senior member
Aug 24, 2004
980
2
76
Even that list is narrowing it too far. It should include things listed as "found."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft#1987

Lots of people incorrectly think nothing was ever found, but that's just not true.

It crashed. Time passed. Debris was found.

This is not significantly different from many other ocean crashes. Often, floating debris and washed-up debris is all you ever find for a mid-ocean crash, and that's exactly what was found. Maybe sometimes an oil slick is found that has migrated somewhere else from the actual site of the crash. The main difference here was the amount of time before debris was found, and that's understandable (considering the pilot was possibly suicidal and took steps to make it difficult). A suicidal pilot is also nothing new. The 24-hour cable news networks made a big deal about it (HUGE understatement) before any significant amount of time had passed. They knew they had the public in a frenzy and tried to keep them tuned-in all day, every day, for weeks. Yes, a passenger plane crash is immediately newsworthy -- even before days had passed with little-or-nothing found. All passengers and crew would be presumed dead with a mid-ocean crash. However, the 24-hour news networks fixated on it. "ALERT!!!" interruptions occurred repeatedly during actual news with no new update, or the same "update" they had been repeating all day long. Sometimes it was just that another country/organization was searching another area. Many times they just had absolutely nothing except another person to talk speculatively with. That was infuriating!

With a mid-ocean crash, there's ALWAYS some time before fragments are found. It takes time to get out there. Currents move things and it's not easy to find the debris immediately. The pilot was probably suicidal (nothing new) so it's no stretch to think he'd take steps to make it difficult to find anything (no transmissions, turn off equipment, fly low, etc).

The 24-hour news networks were making a HUUUUUGE deal out of this immediately after it happened. That was my criticism. They were doing this immediately. The networks knew most of their increased viewership were only watching for updates on the hyped scenario. Rather than stealing ratings from each other, the networks pretty much all saw huge ratings increases. Their existing viewers watched much more than they normally did. Lots of people that didn't normally watch 24-hour cable news started watching.

I made my comment based on vague recollections of past incidents. I know that one of them took place in the Atlantic. I've been working and spending all of my free time remotely assisting my sister for the past few days. My time recently has been extremely limited. The only computer I have access to is at work. I looked up the earliest passenger jet oceanic crash I found in the 30 year period (link), but the wiki page had no information I could find about how much time it took to find debris. It did say this: "The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were not located." -- and that incident was close enough to civilization that witnesses on land actually heard the mid-air explosion.

My point was that it takes time to find debris. Various factors affect how long it takes. The 24-hour cable news networks immediately fixated and sensationalized to a degree I had never seen before (nor since) -- without any hesitation. As expected, debris was found.

If you want to believe this is the most unprecedented airliner crash, be my guest. Yes, there's an important news story here (as with any passenger airline crash) -- but it doesn't warrant the kind of nonsense sensationalism we got. Most of you people think it's more special than it really is, specifically because you got caught-up in the hysteria bandwagon.

Hindsight is 20/20. On the original flight path (KL to Beijing) it was not supposed to go over vast expanses of ocean. As a result, the fact that nothing was found quickly was very unexpected and made the story more attractive over time. It wasn't until quite some time (weeks) until there was evidence that it went towards the vast Indian Ocean. At which point we sort of knew that it's unlikely to be found and people lost interest. In the early days though, there was a lot of speculation because nothing much was actually known. I can totally see why it was an attractive story for many people (myself included) that kept the public's interest.

I'm also not sure about your criticism of the new networks. They saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. That's how capitalism works. What's the big deal? If you don't like it, just don't watch it.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Didn't it also take years (decades) to discover the whereabouts of the Titanic?

I believe a another ship responded to the Titanic's distress calls a few hours after it sunk and rescued some passengers.

So, would seem they know where it went down, but finding it on the bottom of the ocean is another matter. Likely was decades before we had the tech to get down that deep to find the wreckage.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
They are calling off the search after 3 years. I still think the captain did it. His wife asked him for a divorce two days before. Friends said he was distraught and thought he shouldn't be flying.

Forever a Mystery? MH370 Search Ends After Nearly 3 Years

Interesting. If true about the divorce etc I'd say you're likely correct.

Seems to me I heard a short while ago that investigators discovered the pilot had entered the (suspected) route on his home flight simulator. I.e., he practiced it. Struck me as odd this news came out so late.

Fern
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Interesting. If true about the divorce etc I'd say you're likely correct.

Seems to me I heard a short while ago that investigators discovered the pilot had entered the (suspected) route on his home flight simulator. I.e., he practiced it. Struck me as odd this news came out so late.

Fern

Forgot to leave the link were I got my info from about the wife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-moving-no-state-mind-flying-says-friend.html

It was his last joyride': MH370 pilot was upset over wife moving out and in 'no state of mind to be flying', reveals his long-time friend
  • MH370 pilot devastated by his marriage breakdown
  • A close friend said Captain Zaharie was in 'no state of mind to be flying'
  • He warns Zaharie could have taken MH370 on a 'last joyride' and that the crew wouldn't have known something was wrong 'until it was too late’
  • It follows reports the doomed flight climbed to 43,000ft moments before disappearing from radar
  • It stayed at that altitude for 23 minutes, but oxygen would have run out after just 12 minutes, rendering passengers and crew unconscious
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Looks promising. Very good article

Breakthrough in hunt for MH370 wreckage could reopen investigation


A Boeing 777 flaperon, from flight MH370, Tasmania, Australia.

"A group of Australian researchers has narrowed down the area in which ill-fated MH370 flight could have crashed with unprecedented detail, which may lead the investigation to be re-opened and bring closure to the unsolved aviation mystery.
“As a result of oceanographic studies done by CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation) and presented to the meeting, a new search area near 35 degrees south was recommended,” Dr. David Griffin, team leader of the oceanographic study, said in a blog post.

The MH370 flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing disappeared under mysterious circumstances on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board. A multinational search and rescue operation was launched covering a 120,000 square kilometer area (46,000 square miles), but yielded no definitive results.

The search was officially called off after almost three years on January 17, 2017.

The area CSIRO identified as a result of its latest research had been flagged as a “highly likely” resting place for the ill-fated flight in December of 2016 by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

In 2016, the bureau commissioned CSIRO to conduct surface current modeling to examine where floating debris from the crash may have gone.

A flaperon from the aircraft was discovered on Reunion Island off the southeast coast of Africa in July of 2015.

The nearly complete absence of any debris along the West Australian coastline helped narrow down the research parameters.

The Indian Ocean has unusual currents in several specific areas, which further exacerbated the problem of finding debris and hampered the search for years."



 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,655
5,419
136
Breakthrough in hunt for MH370 wreckage could reopen investigation

Wow! This comes less than a week after Malasia Airlines announced that they would be the first airline in the world to track their planes via satellite:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/19/15354328/malaysia-airlines-satellite-based-tracking

The company’s planes will be tracked minute-by-minute using the new system, which boasts complete worldwide coverage, even over “ocean, polar, and remote regions.”

You would think this would already have existed, but apparently it's been a difficult goal to achieve. They're using a lot of tech to do it:

...the satellite-tracking system is operated by a trio of companies: Aireon, SITAONAIR, and FlightAware. It uses a constellation of 72 communication satellites operated by US firm Iridium (whose main business is selling satellite phones connected to its network). The flights will be tracked using an industry-wide standard known as “automatic dependent surveillance – broadcast” or ADS-B, which usually shares data on flight location via ground-based receivers. Using satellites will offer more comprehensive coverage in remote regions, says the airline.

“Real-time global aircraft tracking has long been a goal of the aviation community,” said Malaysia Airlines chief operating officer Captain Izham Ismail in a press statement. “We are proud to be the first airline to adopt this solution using space-based ADS-B data.”
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Wow! This comes less than a week after Malasia Airlines announced that they would be the first airline in the world to track their planes via satellite:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/19/15354328/malaysia-airlines-satellite-based-tracking



You would think this would already have existed, but apparently it's been a difficult goal to achieve. They're using a lot of tech to do it:

I would have thought that it would be rather easy to make a tracking system. Hell I bet that I could make something out of a sat phone, GPS receiver, and a Rasberry Pi. The data storage requirements wouldn't be as huge as they claim because the data could be overwritten every few days or so. They could keep a much smaller sample of the data, like a location every 15 minutes, to analyze the data for whatever reason if they wanted. Heck if you could connect it to the instrument data you could make it to where it only transmitted every 15-20 minutes normally and then started transmitting every minute or 30 seconds once certain parameters like altitude, rate of descent, angle of attack, etc..
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
One would think that the hull of the plane remained mostly intact and should be detectable by some sort of magnetic disturbance technology. Hmm, shoot, I forgot that planes are mostly aluminum and that won't work. If they can find the wreck the FDR may be able to answer a lot of questions, it did in the Air-france 447 crash and that was found at 13,000ft deep.
 
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