Originally posted by: Jmman
Private property gives them all the right they need, especially when they have a sign on the door asking you to not wear anything that could provoke a disturbance. This is not a free speech issue.......just like yelling fire in a crowded building is not a free speech issue.....
Originally posted by: Piano Man
Originally posted by: Jmman
Private property gives them all the right they need, especially when they have a sign on the door asking you to not wear anything that could provoke a disturbance. This is not a free speech issue.......just like yelling fire in a crowded building is not a free speech issue.....
Yea, you know wearing something that promotes peace is really f*cking disturbing.
Originally posted by: Jmman
Originally posted by: Piano Man
Originally posted by: Jmman
Private property gives them all the right they need, especially when they have a sign on the door asking you to not wear anything that could provoke a disturbance. This is not a free speech issue.......just like yelling fire in a crowded building is not a free speech issue.....
Yea, you know wearing something that promotes peace is really f*cking disturbing.
How many posts have we had in the last 3 months concerning this issue? 50,000? More? This issue is definitely devisive to say the least.......
The mall is only trying to keep the peace........
Originally posted by: jlind23
What I don't understand is the basis for the argument that the shirts could potentially cause a disturbance. How many sporting events have people attended wearing the visiting teams jersey, then after a few beers have the local fans become beligerent. Or even in the mall scenerio, I live in Denver and the Saturday before the Raiders game if I see a Raiders Jersey on a customer can I tell security that I don't agree with that shirt here. Or even further how many people with (Pro Life/Peta/Heck even Hooters/Pick your favorite political issue) shirts are walking around the mall.
Originally posted by: Jmman
Originally posted by: Piano Man
Originally posted by: Jmman
Private property gives them all the right they need, especially when they have a sign on the door asking you to not wear anything that could provoke a disturbance. This is not a free speech issue.......just like yelling fire in a crowded building is not a free speech issue.....
Yea, you know wearing something that promotes peace is really f*cking disturbing.
How many posts have we had in the last 3 months concerning this issue? 50,000? More? This issue is definitely devisive to say the least.......
The mall is only trying to keep the peace........
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
true, but they weren't protesting. they were sitting down and wearing peace shirts.
Damn violators!
Look, refer to my post above. Would all you guys who think this is justified think the same thing if there a bunch of middle easterners talking about how brilliant OBL was for masterminding the 9/11 attacks?
What about someone who comes knocks on my front door mistaking it for a friends house. I have the legal justifcation to PUNCH HIS LIGHTS out because he is trespassing on private property, but is it morally or socially justifiable?
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
true, but they weren't protesting. they were sitting down and wearing peace shirts.
Damn violators!
Look, refer to my post above. Would all you guys who think this is justified think the same thing if there a bunch of middle easterners talking about how brilliant OBL was for masterminding the 9/11 attacks?
What about someone who comes knocks on my front door mistaking it for a friends house. I have the legal justifcation to PUNCH HIS LIGHTS out because he is trespassing on private property, but is it morally or socially justifiable?
Well, a group was causing a disturbance, and I would assume these two were mistaken to be involved, or thought to be continuing the disturbance. Another report I saw stated they were asked to cover the logos or change shirts and accomidating offers were made, however, they refused.
Actually, to use violent force to defend property, you have to issue a warning first, unless an agressive move is made towards you. So, you could only punch the guy if you told him to leave and he didn't.
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
true, but they weren't protesting. they were sitting down and wearing peace shirts.
Damn violators!
Look, refer to my post above. Would all you guys who think this is justified think the same thing if there a bunch of middle easterners talking about how brilliant OBL was for masterminding the 9/11 attacks?
What about someone who comes knocks on my front door mistaking it for a friends house. I have the legal justifcation to PUNCH HIS LIGHTS out because he is trespassing on private property, but is it morally or socially justifiable?
Well, a group was causing a disturbance, and I would assume these two were mistaken to be involved, or thought to be continuing the disturbance. Another report I saw stated they were asked to cover the logos or change shirts and accomidating offers were made, however, they refused.
Actually, to use violent force to defend property, you have to issue a warning first, unless an agressive move is made towards you. So, you could only punch the guy if you told him to leave and he didn't.
i thought the group came after the incident? also they should not have been singled out for that. As I have posted earlier, I've seen much more offensive shirts than that, like shirts that say "fvck" on them, confederate flags, etc. etc. their shirts were peace shirts, my god what was wrong with that?
"Ethical" and "Legal" are not necessarily the same thing. Sure, they don't have any ethical justification to throw them out. But they sure as hell have a LEGAL justification to ask anyone to leave for any reason, and to have them arrested for trespassing if they refuse to leave under their own will.Just becase we own property does not give us ethical justification to throw anyone out.
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
First of all he wasn't protesting. Second there are legal distinctins between stores/malls and private residence. There I contested the point, now come over to my front lawn.
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
First of all he wasn't protesting. Second there are legal distinctins between stores/malls and private residence. There I contested the point, now come over to my front lawn.
yeah, but its mostly that deadly force is authorized to protect private residences. I assure you, if you gathered a group of people and went to go protest something in any indoor mall or store or inside an office building, the owners have EVERY RIGHT to remove you and anyone they consider contributing to the disturbance.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Dark54555
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Jmman
The mall is the one that is making the determination about what could potentially could cause a disturbance, not you or I. I could give a rat's ass what someone wears on a tshirt, but when you are in their establishment, they have the right to make that call.........
So like jlind23 said....you should be able to kick people out of shopping malls for wearing the wrong team's jersey?
It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. The owners can kick out whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Or do property rights not matter to you? Property rights were of paramount importance to the founders, just like the right of contracts.
Shut up already about private property. It's a public mall where people are are encouraged to come and shop. You may like to believe that it's the same as a private residence but it's not.
Actually, it is. Public property is owned by the government. This includes streets, parks, sidewalks, government buildings. Private property is ovned by an individual or group of individuals. Protesting in a mall is no different than protesting in a grocery store, a best buy, an office building, or someone's front lawn. They have no right to do that, and therefore can be removed. If you'd like to contest this point, I'll make sure to organize a protest for your front lawn and place of business, just to see how you like it.
First of all he wasn't protesting. Second there are legal distinctins between stores/malls and private residence. There I contested the point, now come over to my front lawn.
yeah, but its mostly that deadly force is authorized to protect private residences. I assure you, if you gathered a group of people and went to go protest something in any indoor mall or store or inside an office building, the owners have EVERY RIGHT to remove you and anyone they consider contributing to the disturbance.
Did you miss the part again where he wasn't protesting?