Man calls 911, then shoots burglars while on the phone with 911

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I don't think the 911 operator did a very good job of talking this guy out of shooting them. I don't blame him in any way, hindsight is 20/20, but I think this is something to learn from. He should have told the guy, hell promised him, that the burglars would have been caught. Lie to him, tell him anything that would better the chances of persuading him that going outside with a gun and with the intent of shooting them is a bad idea.

Perhaps if the 911 operator had said something to the sort of, "look, this is actually the second house these guys have robbed, we had another call with the same description, officers are on the way, they know who those guys are. I promise you we'll get these guys, I promise you they will not get away. Thank you, you've done a great job calling in, and giving us a description, you've been very helpful, and going outside your house with a gun is the last thing we need right now, it would really help us a lot if you stay on the line and communicate with me. That's what we need your help with."

It is maybe a bunch of lies and a bit of psychology, but something like this would prevent future episodes like this one.

While I think this was ultimately a good shoot, I agree that the dispatcher didn't seem too worried. You can hear him laugh a couple times when the old man starts talking about killing. And he speaks in such a soft voice too (the dispatcher.)

 

[fskimospy]

This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

How so? He walked onto the campus and WITHOUT PERMISSION violated the school's TOA and without authorization used their bandwidth in the process. He violated the trust of the school and improperly used their bandwidth for his own personal gain (he stole it).

His rabid response is implying that he believes that all thieves should be executed. I would like him to answer whether or not he is quantifying that theft has different degrees and that it then deserves different punishments and to also specify whether or not that punishment should be determined by our system of law or by vigilantism.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

How so? He walked onto the campus and WITHOUT PERMISSION violated the school's TOA and without authorization used their bandwidth in the process. He violated the trust of the school and improperly used their bandwidth for his own personal gain (he stole it).

His rabid response is implying that he believes that all thieves should be executed. I would like him to answer whether or not he is quantifying that theft has different degrees and that it then deserves different punishments and to also specify whether or not that punishment should be determined by our system of law or by vigilantism.

Try some research before spouting nonsense.

I was the admin in charge of the PC's.

I put all the software on all of the machines on five campuses including the jail they put me in because it had classrooms the school was in charge of as well.

The DC client was running on the machines for a year and a half before a new kid fresh out of Emory University (a medical college) decided to try and make a name for himself.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Did you not accept guilt by pleaing out? If you were so certain that what you did had zero illegality, you would not have accepted the plea Senator Craig...I mean Dave.

Edit: Just because you are the admin does not give you ultimate discretion over what is allowed on the network's computers or what is appropriate use of said computers are. I guess, by your logic that Ken Lay should have been allowed to bilk the Enron investors because he was CEO.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Bunker mentality? LOL, so what's the mentality of people who don't have the balls to defend themselves or their friends?

The reality is that it is a big bad world out there with a lot of bad people in it and unlike Charles Manson they don't have swastikas tattoed on their foreheads so you can tell who they are.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

How so? He walked onto the campus and WITHOUT PERMISSION violated the school's TOA and without authorization used their bandwidth in the process. He violated the trust of the school and improperly used their bandwidth for his own personal gain (he stole it).

His rabid response is implying that he believes that all thieves should be executed. I would like him to answer whether or not he is quantifying that theft has different degrees and that it then deserves different punishments and to also specify whether or not that punishment should be determined by our system of law or by vigilantism.

Much as I really hate to defend Dave, but you're way the hell off base.

 

[Finalnight]

in my state, you have to have fear of great bodily harm or death to shoot. also, you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to stop, otherwise it appears that you weren't really in fear of your life.
EDIT: Note, this is for stuff off your propery/abode. In your house/property you can shoot as long as you were preventing a felony. Commonly used reason here is that you were preventing the violater from gaining possession of your firearm which is a felony.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Finalnight
in my state, you have to have fear of great bodily harm or death to shoot. also, you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to stop, otherwise it appears that you weren't really in fear of your life.

EDIT: Note, this is for stuff off your propery/abode. In your house/property you can shoot as long as you were preventing a felony. Commonly used reason here is that you were preventing the violater from gaining possession of your firearm which is a felony.

That's the way it is in most states which is not enough of a deterent which is also what I suspect the two thugs in Texas thought too otherwise they wouldn't been so brazen in their pillaging like they were.

No more pillaging by them.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I don't think the 911 operator did a very good job of talking this guy out of shooting them. I don't blame him in any way, hindsight is 20/20, but I think this is something to learn from. He should have told the guy, hell promised him, that the burglars would have been caught. Lie to him, tell him anything that would better the chances of persuading him that going outside with a gun and with the intent of shooting them is a bad idea.

Perhaps if the 911 operator had said something to the sort of, "look, this is actually the second house these guys have robbed, we had another call with the same description, officers are on the way, they know who those guys are. I promise you we'll get these guys, I promise you they will not get away. Thank you, you've done a great job calling in, and giving us a description, you've been very helpful, and going outside your house with a gun is the last thing we need right now, it would really help us a lot if you stay on the line and communicate with me. That's what we need your help with."

It is maybe a bunch of lies and a bit of psychology, but something like this would prevent future episodes like this one.

He probably thought he was dealing with a person that had some common sense

Him- I have a shotgun, do you want me to stop them?

911- Nope, dont do that, there aint no property worht shooting somebody over okay?

He later tells him repeately not to go outside the house. The wacko keeps telling him he has the right to protect himself. Wacko was never in danger.

Police were on the scene within approx. 60 secs of this wacko killing 2 people.

If there is any justice a jury will send this wacko to prison for 2nd degree murder, I would vote 1st degree because I think he had ample time and was counseled against his crime.

I predict he will be charged.

 

[Jaskalas]

Bctbct, if that?s how it went down then I would certainly agree.

 

[bctbct]

Horn fatally shot the two men Wednesday afternoon with a 12-gauge shotgun after he saw them breaking into a neighbor's house. He confronted DeJesus and Ortiz as they were leaving the home through a gate leading to the front yard.

Horn called 911 first, and told a police dispatcher that he planned to kill the two men -- just moments before he opened fire. "I'm not going to let them go. I'm not going to let them get away with this," Joe Horn tells the dispatcher.

Moments later, Horn tells the operator: "I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don't go out there," the dispatcher tells Horn in a calm, measured voice. "I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting someone over this."

The neighbors, who Horn told the dispatcher he did not know well, were not at home.

During the 911 call, which runs about six minutes, the dispatcher repeatedly tells Horn not to go outside or use his shotgun.
"Mr. Horn, I want you to listen to me carefully, OK? I've got officers coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house and I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when the officers are poking around out there."
But Horn, who tells the operator that he is upset by a robbery happening in daylight, seems to brush those instructions aside, telling the dispatcher:

"I have a right to protect myself. And a shotgun is a legal weapon. It's not an illegal weapon."

Under state law, Texans are allowed to defend themselves with deadly force to protect their own property. The person using deadly force must believe there is no other way to protect their belongings.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The news showed the two widowers

Widow's, female spouse of dead person, not widowers, male spouse of dead person.

It was before I had any coffee. OK fixed it.

They're still dead as they should be.

Really? Maybe this guy deserved the same "justice" when accussed of hacking!

Sure, go ahead and execute anyone using P2P, the RIAA and MPAA would love it.

All forms of population control will cut down on those looking for entitlements so the majority of the country is all for it.

So you are allowed your day in court as accorded to you by the Constitution but these two "alleged" thieves aren't. Why?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The news showed the two widowers

Widow's, female spouse of dead person, not widowers, male spouse of dead person.

It was before I had any coffee. OK fixed it.

They're still dead as they should be.

Really? Maybe this guy deserved the same "justice" when accussed of hacking!

Sure, go ahead and execute anyone using P2P, the RIAA and MPAA would love it.

All forms of population control will cut down on those looking for entitlements so the majority of the country is all for it.

So you are allowed your day in court as accorded to you by the Constitution but these two "alleged" thieves aren't. Why?

I never said they couldn't have their "day in court".

Too bad they never got there with their "choice" of work that got them killed.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

How so? He walked onto the campus and WITHOUT PERMISSION violated the school's TOA and without authorization used their bandwidth in the process. He violated the trust of the school and improperly used their bandwidth for his own personal gain (he stole it).

His rabid response is implying that he believes that all thieves should be executed. I would like him to answer whether or not he is quantifying that theft has different degrees and that it then deserves different punishments and to also specify whether or not that punishment should be determined by our system of law or by vigilantism.

Try some research before spouting nonsense.

I was the admin in charge of the PC's.

I put all the software on all of the machines on five campuses including the jail they put me in because it had classrooms the school was in charge of as well.

The DC client was running on the machines for a year and a half before a new kid fresh out of Emory University (a medical college) decided to try and make a name for himself.

Jeepers... you get to explain your side of the case. That is 100% more than the two dead "alleged" thieves can do.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every citizen capable of shooting a gun should be armed and ready like this guy was.

How many thieves like these two fresh dead ones do you think there would be?

Just want you to actually answer the question posed to you...

Do you deserve to be shot and killed by the school's security, faculty or any student on campus for your theft of their bandwidth?

If not, why are you advocating that it is okay to shoot to kill any thief that isn't named Dave McOwen?

As some guy once said, let he without sin pull the trigger first.

You're comparing apples & oranges...

How so? He walked onto the campus and WITHOUT PERMISSION violated the school's TOA and without authorization used their bandwidth in the process. He violated the trust of the school and improperly used their bandwidth for his own personal gain (he stole it).

His rabid response is implying that he believes that all thieves should be executed. I would like him to answer whether or not he is quantifying that theft has different degrees and that it then deserves different punishments and to also specify whether or not that punishment should be determined by our system of law or by vigilantism.

Try some research before spouting nonsense.

I was the admin in charge of the PC's.

I put all the software on all of the machines on five campuses including the jail they put me in because it had classrooms the school was in charge of as well.

The DC client was running on the machines for a year and a half before a new kid fresh out of Emory University (a medical college) decided to try and make a name for himself.

Jeepers... you get to explain your side of the case. That is 100% more than the two dead "alleged" thieves can do.

Good hopefully they will be a deterent.

We're going to need it as the economy plunges deeper into shit everyday.

 

[JD50]

Wow, for once I'm going to defend Dave. Anyone comparing what he did to someone burglarizing a residential home is a fvking idiot. When I'm not home, I worry about my wife and my children, and its not because I'm worried about someone going onto the local college campus and installing some software....:roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bctbct
He probably thought he was dealing with a person that had some common sense

Him- I have a shotgun, do you want me to stop them?

911- Nope, dont do that, there aint no property worht shooting somebody over okay?

He later tells him repeately not to go outside the house. The wacko keeps telling him he has the right to protect himself. Wacko was never in danger.

Police were on the scene within approx. 60 secs of this wacko killing 2 people.

If there is any justice a jury will send this wacko to prison for 2nd degree murder, I would vote 1st degree because I think he had ample time and was counseled against his crime.

I predict he will be charged.

I agree and he will most likely be found guilty or accept a plea.

 

[palehorse]

two down, too many more to go...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Interesting. Most of us "bunker mentality type people" believe that every law abiding citizen should have the right to own and carry a firearm. If we were as fearful as you say, we'd be advocating that only the Police and other figures of authority should be allowed to own and carry firearms, because we'd be fearful of anyone else owning a gun....oh wait, thats your crowd.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.


Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.


Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Interesting. Most of us "bunker mentality type people" believe that every law abiding citizen should have the right to own and carry a firearm. If we were as fearful as you say, we'd be advocating that only the Police and other figures of authority should be allowed to own and carry firearms, because we'd be fearful of anyone else owning a gun....oh wait, thats your crowd.

Well that's obviously wrong.

I do find it interesting that everyone arming themselves to the teeth is a sign of comfort with one's fellows though. You must have strange friends... haha