Man calls 911, then shoots burglars while on the phone with 911

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.


Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

ok, ya, his sig has gotten creepy...

 

[KingTech]

I think he has rightly done so.But he should not have shoot to kill.He should shoot the burglars in the legs.He just crossed the limit.Any i think he has done the right.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I think that there are a couple of things that are missing from this thread as Rainsford has tried to fill in the blanks but to little avail.

1. No one believes that those that were shot should go unpunished
2. He and I are arguing that the punishment should fit the crime (See 8th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States)
3. This could become a convenient excuse for murder - someone following another person somewhere then shooting them claiming that they were in the process of doing something criminal

On a side note, I do notice some of the posters in favor are pretty adamantly against the Iraq war. Why do you believe that you cannot spread democracy at the barrel of a gun there but think that that same philosophy would spread peace and be the basis for a euphoric place to live in your own country?

As my handle attempts to indicate but is never really gotten because people can't think without it being politically charged anymore, right and wrong change with the times. Our views of right and wrong are ever changing and we shouldn't be in the business of "chlorinating the gene pool" when that same choride could be used against us in the future.

A war, especially the Iraq debacle, has NOTHING to do with right to personal safety/sanctity. You can't possibly have any connection whatsoever between the two.

Also, I would counter that it isn't actually 'right and wrong' that change with the times, it's social perceptions of right and wrong. This is partially due to individual changes in perceptions, but in my opinion more about social constructs in general.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I don't think the 911 operator did a very good job of talking this guy out of shooting them. I don't blame him in any way, hindsight is 20/20, but I think this is something to learn from. He should have told the guy, hell promised him, that the burglars would have been caught. Lie to him, tell him anything that would better the chances of persuading him that going outside with a gun and with the intent of shooting them is a bad idea.

Perhaps if the 911 operator had said something to the sort of, "look, this is actually the second house these guys have robbed, we had another call with the same description, officers are on the way, they know who those guys are. I promise you we'll get these guys, I promise you they will not get away. Thank you, you've done a great job calling in, and giving us a description, you've been very helpful, and going outside your house with a gun is the last thing we need right now, it would really help us a lot if you stay on the line and communicate with me. That's what we need your help with."

It is maybe a bunch of lies and a bit of psychology, but something like this would prevent future episodes like this one.

No, it wouldn't help, and it would open the city/state to incredible lawsuits. There have been numerous examples already where a 911 operator convinces the caller to put down their weapon, that person is then promptly killed by the criminals and the government is sued by the family for millions. The job of a dispatcher is to get as much info as possible, dispatch appropriate units, and act as a center of communication. They aren't there, they have no training or right to make judgement calls about what 'should' happen on scene. I've had a couple try to get to me to do something during emergencies and I quickly teach them who is in charge.

 

[KingTech]

I think he did that rightly to shoot the burglars and i also think that he should shoot in the legs not had to shoot to death.Because he had enough time to aim the legs of burglars.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Interesting. Most of us "bunker mentality type people" believe that every law abiding citizen should have the right to own and carry a firearm. If we were as fearful as you say, we'd be advocating that only the Police and other figures of authority should be allowed to own and carry firearms, because we'd be fearful of anyone else owning a gun....oh wait, thats your crowd.

Well that's obviously wrong.

I do find it interesting that everyone arming themselves to the teeth is a sign of comfort with one's fellows though. You must have strange friends... haha

There is a difference between being scared of "one's fellows" and living in reality. In the real world, bad things happen and the police aren't there waiting to protect you. People that arm themselves to the teeth for protection are almost non existent. Most people have one or two guns for self defense, if they have any others its for shooting, collecting, etc...

If you aren't fearful of your neighbors owning firearms, why are you against law abiding citizens being able to own and carry a firearm? I also noticed you and a few other gun grabbers are scared to live in Texas because people have the right to defend themselves and their property against wothless criminals.

Please explain how WE are fearful because we believe in the right to protect ourselves, our family, and our property. I'd also like to see you explain how you are not fearful of others owning and carrying firearms.

 

[Narmer]

That shooter did the right thing. Someone had to set an example. Besides, the law is on his side.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.

Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

ok, ya, his sig has gotten creepy...

There is nothing creepy about it. You guys already approved it.

You guys said it's perfectly OK that my wife and I got swindled by criminal people including a deputy Sheriff and that we lose our house and cars and out on the street with nothing.

In fact it will be that same deputy sheriff that comes to evict us out of the house.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.

Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

ok, ya, his sig has gotten creepy...

There is nothing creepy about it. You guys already approved it.

You guys said it's perfectly OK that my wife and I got swindled by criminal people including a deputy Sheriff and that we lose our house and cars and out on the street with nothing.

In fact it will be that same deputy sheriff that comes to evict us out of the house.

Dave, I'm really sorry you're in financial trouble, but no one held a gun to your head. We've all made mistakes in judgment, but getting your shit together entails taking responsibility for our screw ups.

Something like >50% of foreclosures happen without any communication from the customers, have you tried to work something out?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

Yes! Yes! Like Iraq, or the Pakistani tribal areas! :thumbsup:

Dumbest post so far in this thread, congrats.

No, you and Whampom could be tied for that honor.

Whampom said the prime detereent of crime is the armed citizen.

In Iraq, each household is allowed and most have a minimum of one fully automatic AK-47.

How's that working out for them, champ?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.

Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

ok, ya, his sig has gotten creepy...

There is nothing creepy about it. You guys already approved it.

You guys said it's perfectly OK that my wife and I got swindled by criminal people including a deputy Sheriff and that we lose our house and cars and out on the street with nothing.

In fact it will be that same deputy sheriff that comes to evict us out of the house.

Dave, I'm really sorry you're in financial trouble, but no one held a gun to your head. We've all made mistakes in judgment, but getting your shit together entails taking responsibility for our screw ups.

Something like >50% of foreclosures happen without any communication from the customers, have you tried to work something out?

Yes, they said they didn't care.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
This is not Texas law, its California law. But not enough date in the link to decide. In general, one can use deadly force to protect your life but not property.

But against the advise of a 911 dispatcher, the man attempted to make what amounts to a citizens arrest. If the burglars then made a legitimate effort to assault the man with a shotgun or had a weapon they brandished, in most cases the homeowner would be legally justified in using deadly force. But if the burglars instead ignored the man with a shot gun and ran away while making no legitimate threat to the man with a shotgun, it can be prosecuted as murder.

And there is something very wrong if they can't come with a policeman on scene in seven minutes. This is a populated area that is supposed to be policed. Not some rural area where the population is spread thinly and thinly spread police make distance a factor. Now did the 911 dispatcher do their job properly in immediately getting the police dispatched?

(11/15/07 - KTRK/PASADENA, TX)

Under TEXAS law this man should not be charged with a crime.

Whether what he did is ethical or not is another matter that is up for speculation, and depends on your philosophy and the actual circumstances when the man pulled the trigger (Did the robbers reach for weapons? Did they bolt?).

 

[Engineer]

Hell, let's just throw the dealth penalty out there for ALL crimes. The Muslum countries won't have anything on us then.

Crime and crooks suck, but whether law or not, the asshole that shot them should be locked up. That's my opinion and I'm not changing it so don't bother responding to this post.

 

[konakona]

Aside the hypothetical (though valid IMO) comparison of a police officer using deadly force on ciriminals that do not pose immediate threat, we should remember there is a very real threat of someone totally irrelevant getting caught in the middle of a gunfight.

Police force receives training for a reason. Don't be a hero, don't act a professional if you are not one. No gunfire is better than any at all, I would rather see property being stolen than someone suffer from collateral damage.

I am with rainsford on this one. The criminals were leaving, and it would be totally out of line and idiotic to escalate danger any more when it was just about to subside.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: palehorse74
two down, too many more to go...

Yep, it will only get worse.

Many thanks to the guys of reason on my case. :thumbsup:

Whats up with your sig?

ok, ya, his sig has gotten creepy...

There is nothing creepy about it. You guys already approved it.

You guys said it's perfectly OK that my wife and I got swindled by criminal people including a deputy Sheriff and that we lose our house and cars and out on the street with nothing.

In fact it will be that same deputy sheriff that comes to evict us out of the house.

Dave, I'm really sorry you're in financial trouble, but no one held a gun to your head. We've all made mistakes in judgment, but getting your shit together entails taking responsibility for our screw ups.

Something like >50% of foreclosures happen without any communication from the customers, have you tried to work something out?

Yes, they said they didn't care.

I sincerely hope you figure and work everything out Dave. Politics do not define a person, so, despite our differences, I hope you believe me when I say I hope you get through everything OK. Don't let online disputes fool you... you'd probably be surprised who might actually care to help you out and make sure you're alright... including yours truly.

I still don't understand how your financial troubles have you essentially saying goodbye to everyone in your sig...?? Are you going to jail, heaven... crazy? Are you OK?

seriously...?

 

[JEDIYoda]

lets do the proper ATOT thing and support Dave as he looks for a way to make ends meet!!

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

Yes! Yes! Like Iraq, or the Pakistani tribal areas! :thumbsup:

Dumbest post so far in this thread, congrats.

No, you and Whampom could be tied for that honor.

Whampom said the prime detereent of crime is the armed citizen.

In Iraq, each household is allowed and most have a minimum of one fully automatic AK-47.

How's that working out for them, champ?

Looks like you one upped yourself there champ. Do you think that there may be something else that is effecting the crime rate in Iraq? I'll give you a similar example of how to make idiotic comparisons.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that you are another government loving liberal that thinks that everyone in the US would be much better off with universal health care.

In North Korea, they have universal health care.

How's that working out for them, champ?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

Yes! Yes! Like Iraq, or the Pakistani tribal areas! :thumbsup:

Dumbest post so far in this thread, congrats.

No, you and Whampom could be tied for that honor.

Whampom said the prime detereent of crime is the armed citizen.

In Iraq, each household is allowed and most have a minimum of one fully automatic AK-47.

How's that working out for them, champ?

Looks like you one upped yourself there champ. Do you think that there may be something else that is effecting the crime rate in Iraq? I'll give you a similar example of how to make idiotic comparisons.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that you are another government loving liberal that thinks that everyone in the US would be much better off with universal health care.

In North Korea, they have universal health care.

How's that working out for them, champ?

First of all, take your straw man assumptions and sophmorific misdirection and stick them up your ass, ass.

Then, ANSWER THE QUESTION! How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate, slick?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

Yes! Yes! Like Iraq, or the Pakistani tribal areas! :thumbsup:

Dumbest post so far in this thread, congrats.

No, you and Whampom could be tied for that honor.

Whampom said the prime detereent of crime is the armed citizen.

In Iraq, each household is allowed and most have a minimum of one fully automatic AK-47.

How's that working out for them, champ?

Looks like you one upped yourself there champ. Do you think that there may be something else that is effecting the crime rate in Iraq? I'll give you a similar example of how to make idiotic comparisons.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that you are another government loving liberal that thinks that everyone in the US would be much better off with universal health care.

In North Korea, they have universal health care.

How's that working out for them, champ?

First of all, take your straw man assumptions and sophmorific misdirection and stick them up your ass, ass.

Then, ANSWER THE QUESTION! How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate, slick?

Sorry, not all of us enjoy sticking things up our ass. But hey, whatever floats your boat...

Anyways, speaking of assumptions and stawmen...can you please show me where someone said that Iraq's fully armed citizenry helps lower their crime rate? Only a moron would try and compare the gun laws in Texas and the gun laws in Iraq.

Oh, and by the way, sophmorific is not even a word.

Just curious though, are you a proponent of tight gun control and universal healthcare?

Edit - one other question, do you think that the crime rate would go down in Iraq if we went door to door and took everyones AK-47?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose
Then, ANSWER THE QUESTION! How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate, slick?

Sorry, not all of us enjoy sticking things up our ass. But hey, whatever floats your boat...

Anyways, speaking of assumptions and stawmen...can you please show me where someone said that Iraq's fully armed citizenry helps lower their crime rate? Only a moron would try and compare the gun laws in Texas and the gun laws in Iraq.

Oh, and by the way, sophmorific is not even a word.

Just curious though, are you a proponent of tight gun control and universal healthcare?

Edit - one other question, do you think that the crime rate would go down in Iraq if we went door to door and took everyones AK-47?

Just as I thought, you can't answer the question.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose
Then, ANSWER THE QUESTION! How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate, slick?

Sorry, not all of us enjoy sticking things up our ass. But hey, whatever floats your boat...

Anyways, speaking of assumptions and stawmen...can you please show me where someone said that Iraq's fully armed citizenry helps lower their crime rate? Only a moron would try and compare the gun laws in Texas and the gun laws in Iraq.

Oh, and by the way, sophmorific is not even a word.

Just curious though, are you a proponent of tight gun control and universal healthcare?

Edit - one other question, do you think that the crime rate would go down in Iraq if we went door to door and took everyones AK-47?

Just as I thought, you can't answer the question.

Its a stupid question. I have no idea how it effects their crime rate, I haven't studied the crime statistics of Iraq, have you? Now answer my questions. I still can't believe that you are actually trying to compare gun laws in Iraq and gun laws in the US.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Hell, let's just throw the dealth penalty out there for ALL crimes. The Muslum countries won't have anything on us then.

Crime and crooks suck, but whether law or not, the asshole that shot them should be locked up. That's my opinion and I'm not changing it so don't bother responding to this post.

I listened to the recording and that guy was an asshole. I think the 911 dispatchers was a bit of an asshole too, he should have let him know how close the police were to being there and he was laughing at one point. Of course the burglars were obviously assholes too.

Moral of story, when a bunch of assholes get together it's best to be the asshole with the gun.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Perknose
Then, ANSWER THE QUESTION! How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate, slick?

Sorry, not all of us enjoy sticking things up our ass. But hey, whatever floats your boat...

Anyways, speaking of assumptions and stawmen...can you please show me where someone said that Iraq's fully armed citizenry helps lower their crime rate? Only a moron would try and compare the gun laws in Texas and the gun laws in Iraq.

Oh, and by the way, sophmorific is not even a word.

Just curious though, are you a proponent of tight gun control and universal healthcare?

Edit - one other question, do you think that the crime rate would go down in Iraq if we went door to door and took everyones AK-47?

Just as I thought, you can't answer the question.

You're not making much sense here Perknose...

 

[Specop 007]

Without reading all the posts...

1) Good shooting

2) 2 less shitbags off the streets

3) That guy is gonna be the luckiest man alive if he doesnt end up in jail, for a very long time

 

[Darwin333]

Edit: I obviously wasn't aware of the law in other states.

I never would have thought you could say to a 911 operator that "I'm gonna kill them" before your life is in danger and then kill them without showing prior intent.