Man calls 911, then shoots burglars while on the phone with 911

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Number1
In Saudi Arabia they also sentenced a girl to jail and 90 lashes for being raped. Is that better?
link

Ah, another product of piss-poor education and lack of reading comprehension. A friendly advice: take some remedial classes (your local community college offers them for free) and stop making an @ss of yourself.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Interesting. Most of us "bunker mentality type people" believe that every law abiding citizen should have the right to own and carry a firearm. If we were as fearful as you say, we'd be advocating that only the Police and other figures of authority should be allowed to own and carry firearms, because we'd be fearful of anyone else owning a gun....oh wait, thats your crowd.

Well that's obviously wrong.

I do find it interesting that everyone arming themselves to the teeth is a sign of comfort with one's fellows though. You must have strange friends... haha

There is a difference between being scared of "one's fellows" and living in reality. In the real world, bad things happen and the police aren't there waiting to protect you. People that arm themselves to the teeth for protection are almost non existent. Most people have one or two guns for self defense, if they have any others its for shooting, collecting, etc...

If you aren't fearful of your neighbors owning firearms, why are you against law abiding citizens being able to own and carry a firearm? I also noticed you and a few other gun grabbers are scared to live in Texas because people have the right to defend themselves and their property against wothless criminals.

Please explain how WE are fearful because we believe in the right to protect ourselves, our family, and our property. I'd also like to see you explain how you are not fearful of others owning and carrying firearms.

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention to what I write. I'm not a "gun grabber". I think its unfortunate that our constitution has such strong protections for weapon ownership, but it does and so until that's changed it should be respected. How could I get all mad at Bush for shitting on the fourth amendment if I didn't respect the other ones?

All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones. They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them, suicide rates are higher, you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night, things like that. I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea. On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention to what I write. I'm not a "gun grabber". I think its unfortunate that our constitution has such strong protections for weapon ownership, but it does and so until that's changed it should be respected. How could I get all mad at Bush for shitting on the fourth amendment if I didn't respect the other ones?

All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones. They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them, suicide rates are higher, you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night, things like that. I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea. On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

The fact that my neighbors and I were well armed helped save not only our lives but the lives of our neighbors that chose to not have guns during the aftermath of Katrina. The amazing part is they helped preserve our life without us ever having to fire a shot. Ironically, one of my weapons is considered an "assault" rifle and besides putting holes in paper its only use has been the defense of my neighbors.

And saying that having a gun in your home increases your chances of getting shot by that gun is absurd without actual numbers behind it (how many guns in home versus how many accidental shootings). Its like saying that having electricity in your home increases your chance of being electrocuted.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention to what I write. I'm not a "gun grabber". I think its unfortunate that our constitution has such strong protections for weapon ownership, but it does and so until that's changed it should be respected. How could I get all mad at Bush for shitting on the fourth amendment if I didn't respect the other ones?

All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones. They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them, suicide rates are higher, you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night, things like that. I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea. On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

The fact that my neighbors and I were well armed helped save not only our lives but the lives of our neighbors that chose to not have guns during the aftermath of Katrina. The amazing part is they helped preserve our life without us ever having to fire a shot. Ironically, one of my weapons is considered an "assault" rifle and besides putting holes in paper its only use has been the defense of my neighbors.

And saying that having a gun in your home increases your chances of getting shot by that gun is absurd without actual numbers behind it (how many guns in home versus how many accidental shootings). Its like saying that having electricity in your home increases your chance of being electrocuted.

There have been several scientific studies done that show you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home then without one. Feel free to look them up. The correlation is not as strong as I would like, but it appears to be significant. While I am sure there are many cases (such as yours) where guns have saved lives, there are also many that have cost lives. The studies and the point I am making rely on larger statistical trends to which anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There have been several scientific studies done that show you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home then without one. Feel free to look them up. The correlation is not as strong as I would like, but it appears to be significant. While I am sure there are many cases (such as yours) where guns have saved lives, there are also many that have cost lives. The studies and the point I am making rely on larger statistical trends to which anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful.

Those stats are mainly confined to households with children and no safety lock on the guns.

That is irresponsible gun holders.

Those are people that should not have a gun.

That has no bearing on the fact every citizen that is responsible and capable with a gun should be armed.

An unarmed citizenry is not citizens at all.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: eskimospy


There have been several scientific studies done that show you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home then without one. Feel free to look them up. The correlation is not as strong as I would like, but it appears to be significant. While I am sure there are many cases (such as yours) where guns have saved lives, there are also many that have cost lives. The studies and the point I am making rely on larger statistical trends to which anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful.

I know that their are accidental shootings so obviously having a gun in your home does increase your chances of being shot. My question, is the increase in odds statistically relevant? I personally don't believe that it is. I'll use the same argument that you did, you don't carry a weapon because statistically it is unlikely that you will ever need it. When done properly, it is extremely unlikely that having a gun in my home will ever shoot anyone, much less a family member.

To be clear, I believe in the real reason the 2nd amendment was included in the Bill of Rights.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Perknose
Just as I thought, you can't answer the question.

You're not making much sense here Perknose...

Sigh.

JD40 still can't answer the question.

You can't even seem to find or understand the question.

On 11/17/07 @ 12:44am, WHAMPOM said:

The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

So, an armed citizen is THE PRIME DETERRENT against crime? Well, Iraq has amongst the most fiercely and thoroughly armed citizenry in the world.

In Iraq, by law, every household is allowed to own at least one AK-47, and most do.

Even the United States Army respects this Iraqi law.

Yet, apart from political strife, crime, violent personal crime, is out of hand in Iraq.

So, here you two go, again. Understand the question. Ponder the question (prime deterrent? Check!)

Answer the question:

How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: eskimospy


There have been several scientific studies done that show you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home then without one. Feel free to look them up. The correlation is not as strong as I would like, but it appears to be significant. While I am sure there are many cases (such as yours) where guns have saved lives, there are also many that have cost lives. The studies and the point I am making rely on larger statistical trends to which anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful.

I know that their are accidental shootings so obviously having a gun in your home does increase your chances of being shot. My question, is the increase in odds statistically relevant? I personally don't believe that it is. I'll use the same argument that you did, you don't carry a weapon because statistically it is unlikely that you will ever need it. When done properly, it is extremely unlikely that having a gun in my home will ever shoot anyone, much less a family member.

To be clear, I believe in the real reason the 2nd amendment was included in the Bill of Rights.

Dmcowen, those studies used random sampling which includes everyone. It doesn't matter if the gun holders are irresponsible or not, when you are talking about things that impact everyone you have to take everyone into account, irresponsible people included. It is also very strange to me that the degree of weapondry that people have would be a qualifying factor in citizenship... that makes no sense.

Darwin, the results are statistically significant in a scientific study, so they are meaningful. Again I am not speaking about any one specific person, because that's not very useful in a discussion about this. I'm sure you are a responsible gun owner and so maybe your odds of being involved in something like this is lower then average. I would also say that most people who own guns consider themselves responsible gun owners.

I believe my points still stand on the relative merits of gun ownership for the average citizen, and I still believe that most of the people in here applauding this man's actions are doing so predicated upon fear.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been really illuminating for me. I never knew how many bunker mentality type people there are in this world. I'm getting a sense from a lot of people posting in this thread of this huge amount of fear and anger towards your fellow man. It must be a scary world you live in.

Interesting. Most of us "bunker mentality type people" believe that every law abiding citizen should have the right to own and carry a firearm. If we were as fearful as you say, we'd be advocating that only the Police and other figures of authority should be allowed to own and carry firearms, because we'd be fearful of anyone else owning a gun....oh wait, thats your crowd.

Well that's obviously wrong.

I do find it interesting that everyone arming themselves to the teeth is a sign of comfort with one's fellows though. You must have strange friends... haha

There is a difference between being scared of "one's fellows" and living in reality. In the real world, bad things happen and the police aren't there waiting to protect you. People that arm themselves to the teeth for protection are almost non existent. Most people have one or two guns for self defense, if they have any others its for shooting, collecting, etc...

If you aren't fearful of your neighbors owning firearms, why are you against law abiding citizens being able to own and carry a firearm? I also noticed you and a few other gun grabbers are scared to live in Texas because people have the right to defend themselves and their property against wothless criminals.

Please explain how WE are fearful because we believe in the right to protect ourselves, our family, and our property. I'd also like to see you explain how you are not fearful of others owning and carrying firearms.

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention to what I write. I'm not a "gun grabber". I think its unfortunate that our constitution has such strong protections for weapon ownership, but it does and so until that's changed it should be respected. How could I get all mad at Bush for shitting on the fourth amendment if I didn't respect the other ones?

All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones. They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them, suicide rates are higher, you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night, things like that. I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea. On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

I live a perfectly normal life, every day. With the right holsters, it's simply no inconvenience at all to have a handgun concealed on my person at all times, and an assault rifle in the trunk of my Acura. WHy not be prepared if there's no costs involved?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nebor

I live a perfectly normal life, every day. With the right holsters, it's simply no inconvenience at all to have a handgun concealed on my person at all times, and an assault rifle in the trunk of my Acura. WHy not be prepared if there's no costs involved?

There are always costs, and you know it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Perknose
Just as I thought, you can't answer the question.

You're not making much sense here Perknose...

Sigh.

JD40 still can't answer the question.

You can't even seem to find or understand the question.

On 11/17/07 @ 12:44am, WHAMPOM said:

The prime deterrent of crime is the armed citizen.

So, an armed citizen is THE PRIME DETERRENT against crime? Well, Iraq has amongst the most fiercely and thoroughly armed citizenry in the world.

In Iraq, by law, every household is allowed to own at least one AK-47, and most do.

Even the United States Army respects this Iraqi law.

Yet, apart from political strife, crime, violent personal crime, is out of hand in Iraq.

So, here you two go, again. Understand the question. Ponder the question (prime deterrent? Check!)

Answer the question:

How does Iraq's fully armed citizenry help lower their crime rate?

There are no Iraq citizens since the U.S. invaded so how is this question valid?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
There are no Iraq citizens since the U.S. invaded so how is this question valid?

Still can't answer the question, can you?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
There are no Iraq citizens since the U.S. invaded so how is this question valid?

Still can't answer the question, can you?

It's not an answerable question.

However if the U.S. was invaded like Iraq was I bet you would be wishing for as many armed citizens as possible against the invaders.

 

[normalicy]

I have to admit, the justice system is leaning too much to the criminal these days. I've had numerous things stolen from me in the last 15 years & when reported to the police, they pretty much say that they'll keep an eye out. Well, this has happened to many of my friends as well & none of us has ever seen our property back. Sure, we could claim it to the insurance.... & get a hike in our rates, not to mention paying the deductable. Sure the people may eventually be caught, but the longer they aren't caught, the longer that people feel insecure in their once peaceful lives. I now have a camera mounted in front & in back of my home. Who would have thought that normal 20 years ago.

I'm not going to say what the guy did is right, but I also appreciate it because it'll make all of the other burglars out there reconsider doing something to my house, because there may be another crazy guy with a shotgun waiting to take them out. If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to cap them in the knees so they couldn't get away. Taking their lives, I'd leave to the judge & jury.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: normalicy
I have to admit, the justice system is leaning too much to the criminal these days. I've had numerous things stolen from me in the last 15 years & when reported to the police, they pretty much say that they'll keep an eye out. Well, this has happened to many of my friends as well & none of us has ever seen our property back. Sure, we could claim it to the insurance.... & get a hike in our rates, not to mention paying the deductable. Sure the people may eventually be caught, but the longer they aren't caught, the longer that people feel insecure in their once peaceful lives. I now have a camera mounted in front & in back of my home. Who would have thought that normal 20 years ago.

I'm not going to say what the guy did is right, but I also appreciate it because it'll make all of the other burglars out there reconsider doing something to my house, because there may be another crazy guy with a shotgun waiting to take them out. If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to cap them in the knees so they couldn't get away. Taking their lives, I'd leave to the judge & jury.

Well first of all, you don't shoot to wound. Not only is it dangerous to you, it's dangerous to the other person as well. Hitting someone in the knee in a stressful situation isn't like target shooting, so you might miss completely in which case you're in way more danger, or you might miss their knee and hit them somewhere else and end up killing them when you didn't mean to. I think the best rule is keep it simple, don't point a gun at someone unless you are prepared to kill them.

As for the rest of what you said, the problem is that there is no such thing as leaning towards "the criminal". You can't have special rules to deal with criminals, because it's hard to easily tell the difference between the accused and the guilty. But your particular problem has nothing to do with criminals having too many rights, it has to do with the cops being lazy.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention to what I write. I'm not a "gun grabber". I think its unfortunate that our constitution has such strong protections for weapon ownership, but it does and so until that's changed it should be respected. How could I get all mad at Bush for shitting on the fourth amendment if I didn't respect the other ones?

All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones. They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them, suicide rates are higher, you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night, things like that. I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea. On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

The fact that my neighbors and I were well armed helped save not only our lives but the lives of our neighbors that chose to not have guns during the aftermath of Katrina. The amazing part is they helped preserve our life without us ever having to fire a shot. Ironically, one of my weapons is considered an "assault" rifle and besides putting holes in paper its only use has been the defense of my neighbors.

And saying that having a gun in your home increases your chances of getting shot by that gun is absurd without actual numbers behind it (how many guns in home versus how many accidental shootings). Its like saying that having electricity in your home increases your chance of being electrocuted.

There have been several scientific studies done that show you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home then without one. Feel free to look them up. The correlation is not as strong as I would like, but it appears to be significant. While I am sure there are many cases (such as yours) where guns have saved lives, there are also many that have cost lives. The studies and the point I am making rely on larger statistical trends to which anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful.

Pretty much every study like that has been totally debunked, starting with Kellermen and moving forward. There is absolutely no statistical support for gun control, as found by the most recent federal investigation (begun under Clinton).

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
All of my positions against gun ownership are practical ones.

Alright, lets go over them with the studies I have seen. All of the sources are listed in the article.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
They make you more likely to be killed in the event of a home invasion, they make your family vulnerable to kids playing with them

More children die everyday from parental neglect than from gun accidents. Firearms account for 2% of the accidental deaths of children in 2001. Every child that dies, intentionally or not, is horrible but if you are trying to advocate policy that saves the lives of children guns are the last place you should start.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
suicide rates are higher,

Worldwide, the per capita suicide rate is fairly static (the suicide rate of the U.S. is lower than many
industrial countries, including many where private gun ownership is banned). A certain fraction
of the population will commit suicide regardless of the available tools. There is an interesting chart on page 24

Originally posted by: eskimospy
you could shoot your own kid when he's coming in at night,

In 2001, there were only 72 accidental firearm deaths for children under age 15, compared with over 2,100 children that drowned (29 times as many drowning deaths as firearm deaths)

Fatal gun accidents for children ages 0-14 declined by almost 83% from 1981 to 2002148 ? all while the number of handguns per capita increased over 41%149. This states the opposite of the point that you are trying to make. Gun accidents involving children have gone DOWN while guns per capita has gone UP.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'm not fearful of my neighbors having guns at all, I just think the evidence shows that it's generally a bad idea.

I would like to see that data because I have a ton of data that says thats just not true.

Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the
predator.100 This means you are much more likely to prevent a crime without bloodshed than
hurt a family member.

Firearms in private hands are used 2.5 million times each year to prevent crime, or 6,849
times every day151, including rapes, aggravated assaults, and kidnapping.

When using guns in self-defense287:
? 83% of robbery victims were not injured
? 88% of assault victims were not hurt
? 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot

Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals
an estimated 2,500,000 times ? more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.285 Of
these instances, 15.6% of the people using a firearm defensively stated that they "almost
certainly" saved their lives by doing so.

You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In
episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:292
Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%

Originally posted by: eskimospy
On the other hand I see most people in this thread so far who are for what this guy did talking about how the streets are filled with criminals, how you need to have a gun to protect yourself from home invaders, how criminals all need to be executed, etc. That's fear plain and simple. It's anger and hatred stemming from being terrified of the world around you.

Thats preparation, plain and simple. I don't live in fear, anger and hatred because there is a possibility I might have a kitchen fire and prepare myself for the unlikely event with a fire extinguisher.

Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the
predator.100 This means you are much more likely to prevent a crime without bloodshed than
hurt a family member.


Source

 

[fskimospy]

Darwin you're trying to argue against a point that I'm not making. I appreciate your zeal but its misplaced. I'm not advocating gun control laws, as I've mentioned in previous postings I wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist but since it does we should respect it.

I'll go over your things one by one to illustrate to you what I mean.

2% of accidental deaths from firearms? I don't care if it's .02%, the fact remains that if you don't have a gun near your kids they aren't going to die from it. It's just a practical point that non gun owners such as myself never need to worry about it.

In studies that have compared the suicide rates inside the US they have found a higher rate among households with guns in them. This is far more useful then trying to compare suicide rates across nations.

Your point about children coming in at night does nothing even close to disproving my point, and it certainly doesn't state the exact opposite of what I tried to say. First of all those aged 0-14 are not exactly the most likely people to be sneaking in at 2AM which is what I was referring to. Secondly a decrease in accidental killings is wonderful, but it does nothing to prove the exact opposite of what I was saying. The only way you could do that is if somehow owning a gun made your child less likely to be shot by you by accident. This appears unlikely to happen.

Lastly the crime prevention data is EXTREMELY suspect, self serving, and the result of voluntary sampling. (a gigantic statistical no-no) Simply put they are relying on the word of the gun owner and their own relation as to what happened in those incidents. That is just a terrible way to make an argument when the gun owners obviously have an interest in justifying their actions.

Anyways, own as many guns as you want. Wear them in your belt and shoot them in the air like Yosemite Sam for all I care, it's your right as an American. I was only commenting on the culture of fear that I saw in this thread, and that I personally would not own a gun because of reasons I've already given.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist

ironically, the second amendment is one of the reasons you're free to say such a thing.

Thankfully the founding fathers didn't share your viewpoint.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist

[/quote]

Holy crap.

What are you doing here?

Go to China where you would fit right in already.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Holy crap.

What are you doing here?

Go to China where you would fit right in already.

Shut up you moron. There are plenty of things about the constitution I don't like. The only difference between me and you idiots is that I don't put aside my respect for it when it says things I disagree with, and I don't try to weasel its words into saying something it doesn't.

And Daveymark, I sincerely doubt it.

Edit, fixed quotes.

 

[Darwin333]

No point debating with you Eskimospy as your mind is obviously made up despite the facts.

It is safer to have a gun in the house than a pool in the backyard yet you wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist. I am not going to go digging for more studies but I couldn't imagine that a person bent on suicide would decide not to because they did not have a gun.

As far as crime prevention, play with the numbers anyway you want to. The fact of the matter is there are very very few accidental gun injuries per capita, people who legally carry guns statistically almost never commit a gun crime or violent crime, and regardless of how you play with the numbers they DO prevent a large number of violent crimes.

It seems obvious that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens have an overall positive affect. The 2nd amendment may also help the citizens protect their other rights one day. I just can't imagine anybody who has seriously looked at the numbers to say something like they wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
No point debating with you Eskimospy as your mind is obviously made up despite the facts.

It is safer to have a gun in the house than a pool in the backyard yet you wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist. I am not going to go digging for more studies but I couldn't imagine that a person bent on suicide would decide not to because they did not have a gun.

As far as crime prevention, play with the numbers anyway you want to. The fact of the matter is there are very very few accidental gun injuries per capita, people who legally carry guns statistically almost never commit a gun crime or violent crime, and regardless of how you play with the numbers they DO prevent a large number of violent crimes.

It seems obvious that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens have an overall positive affect. The 2nd amendment may also help the citizens protect their other rights one day. I just can't imagine anybody who has seriously looked at the numbers to say something like they wish the 2nd amendment didn't exist.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of reasons why the second amendment could be considered a bad thing, first and foremost because it has helped perpetuate a gun culture here that has allowed lots of people who don't obey the laws to get guns. There are zillions of other reasons outside of a short sighted gun control debate. That's besides the point though... because that's not the debate we were having. Actually that's not the debate I was having, but you have been responding as if it was.

You're trying to argue as if I were supporting some gun control legislation that I'm not. If you want to continue debating me based on what you wish I had said as opposed to what I actually said then feel free. The numbers you gave to me just had absolutely nothing to do with my argument, all they made me think was that you weren't reading my posts. They were made to fight gun control legislation fights... fights that I'm not interested in having and haven't been arguing for.

You also have a limited understanding of suicide, and yes the immediate availability of effective means to kill yourself by a single action is most certainly a contributor to suicide. I had a good friend of mine take his own life with a handy dandy pistol this last July. I would suggest you learn more about suicide before you say that.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Damn. I agree with the right to bear arms but this guy went totally overboard. Almost sounds like he was close to point blank to the robbers when he fired off his gauge on them just by the sound of his voice. He wasn't yelling at the robbers, he was speaking to them. If this guy gets off he'll be one lucky son of a bitch.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

I've never owned a weapon in my whole life, and I never will. I don't live in a particularly nice place, but I walk around at night without the slightest worry. Why? Not because there isn't crime in my area, but because I know how unlikely it is that any one person will be the target of it. I can either bunker down every day of my life, or live like a normal human being unafraid of his neighbors and maybe get robbed someday. I'll take #2 every time.

It only takes one incident to change that fact. I hope it doesn't happen and if it does that you survive it unscathed. I personally don't like leaving things like that up to plain dumb luck or "divine providence".