man dies after NYPD cop puts him in chokehold

[Zorkorist]

To be clear, this is a discussion about race, just as much as it is a discussion about police.

There's nothing taboo about discussing race.

-John

 

[Abwx]

Police State Brutality is a plight shared by all Americans. Make it about race and harm the support you would otherwise receive.

Blacks are statisticaly more targeted but that s right that this an habit, i have a friend who went to the US and was blocked while driving in the countryside by a Tranger because he was driving at 30mph instead of the 20mph at this exact location in a wood, hands on the car top and the gun spoting him, you would never see something like this in Europe, not even in a lot of third world countries, that s a fine and game over while in the US any breach to the law is assumed as being almost a crime, the eventual breacher will lose any right, he can be gunned down and a trivial excuse used as justification like in the Brown case.

 

[trenchfoot]

Confusing and rapidly unfolding? Are you fucking serious? All the other cops were calm and talking to the guy. This one cop decides, by himself, that he's had enough talk and decides to take the guy down.

We have the video, we've all seen the video, you can't simply make up shit to fit your belief!

Not my personal opinion of what took place, but rather what I'm hypothesizing the officers may have told the GJ to justify their actions while the take down was actually happening, including the time frame when the other officers jumped in to assist in subduing the guy that was "resisting arrest".

This hypothetical scenario I played out was to try to reason why no indictment was handed down, and again, it's definitely not my own personal opinion of what happened.

 

[ivwshane]

Not my personal opinion of what took place, but rather what I'm hypothesizing the officers may have told the GJ to justify their actions while the take down was actually happening, including the time frame when the other officers jumped in to assist in subduing the guy that was "resisting arrest".

This hypothetical scenario I played out was to try to reason why no indictment was handed down, and again, it's definitely not my own personal opinion of what happened.

Gotcha. I think, based on how the ferguson prosecutor directed the GJ, I'm guessing that if we see the transcripts it will basically boil down to the instructions given to the GJ and how the prosecutor presented the law to them.

We assume the GJ saw the video but is that really a forgone conclusion?

 

[Zorkorist]

Everyone in America saw this cop kill this person.

-John

 

[trenchfoot]

Gotcha. I think, based on how the ferguson prosecutor directed the GJ, I'm guessing that if we see the transcripts it will basically boil down to the instructions given to the GJ and how the prosecutor presented the law to them.

We assume the GJ saw the video but is that really a forgone conclusion?

Agreed. I think I read an article in my local paper or heard on a local TV station that the prosecutor works closely with the PD and that relationship may have biased his handling of the case.

Even if the GJ saw the video, I get the feeling that with the prosecutor and the NYPD being "on the same side", there was enough "cooperation" between the two to convince the grand jury not to indict.

 

[The Merg]

What did he say before "don't touch me". Maybe something about these cops always harassing him??

Yeah, he did. He had been repeatedly stopped and charged previously for the same thing. If he hadn't performed an illegal act that day, the cops wouldn't have tried to arrest him. But hey, how many times does someone need to be arrested before the police just say, "eh, he's already been arrested for this 3 times, there's no reason to arrest him again."?

And a crime is a crime. Just because it is minimal doesn't mean that the police should just turn their back and walk away. Just because we don't like a law means that the police should just not enforce it,

- Merg

 

[ivwshane]

Yeah, he did. He had been repeatedly stopped and charged previously for the same thing. If he hadn't performed an illegal act that day, the cops wouldn't have tried to arrest him. But hey, how many times does someone need to be arrested before the police just say, "eh, he's already been arrested for this 3 times, there's no reason to arrest him again."?

And a crime is a crime. Just because it is minimal doesn't mean that the police should just turn their back and walk away. Just because we don't like a law means that the police should just not enforce it,

- Merg

I guess when you are a fucking moron, you only see black and white. Surely an idiot such as yourself can think of better ways to arrest a man who sold cigarettes individually, than by killing the guy? Nah of course not, the police are the judge, jury and executioner and in your book they can do no wrong!

Please keep displaying your cluelessness, it never gets tiring! /s

 

[Thebobo]

My bad. Watching it for the umpteenth time, I hear that he does say it twice when he is first down in the ground and the cop is rolling off his back. The cop then let's go at that point.

And technically, if you talk to anyone involved in MMA, it was not a chokehold. Yes, the cop did grab him around the neck, but it is not a chokehold.

- Merg

lol MMA probably watched by the testosterone laden macho death cops as well, just proves your point. Its a wonder these days folks enjoy watching one man beat up another, some would label them sociopaths. Were they / you screaming and frothing at the mouth like a peasant at the coliseum as he pleaded for his life.

Shame on "you."

 

[Ichinisan]

I assume even if there were clear video evidence for the Zimmerman Martin case, Zimmerman would still have walked. Obviously, having video evidence and police cams makes no difference. The problem isn't evidence, it is perception. The law always has the upper hand. That should be quite clear by now.

I suppose only when white republican children start dying by the hand of law enforcement will anything be done.
Can you imagine if the tides were turned, the outrage from white republican parents?
Yeah, like that tide would ever happen in America.

Charlie Manson always wanted a race war.
Looks like his wishful thinking was a bit ahead of its time.

Of course Z would have walked. Video would have completely changed the perception of what happened because people would immediately see the media lied to them about the "sweet angel" Martin. A video would have been a HUGE relief for Z and there would be absolutely no public outrage about his case.

 

[The Merg]

I guess when you are a fucking moron, you only see black and white. Surely an idiot such as yourself can think of better ways to arrest a man who sold cigarettes individually, than by killing the guy? Nah of course not, the police are the judge, jury and executioner and in your book they can do no wrong!



Please keep displaying your cluelessness, it never gets tiring! /s

Because, of course, the police only had the intent of killing this gentleman. They had no intention, whatsoever, of actually taking him into custody.[/s]

Do you actually think the cop intended to kill him?

Remember, the police don't make the laws. Don't blame the cops for the stupid laws on the books. The cops didn't create those laws.

- Merg

 

[Dari]

Protestors are completely justified with this ruling. This is ridiculous. If there was video evidence in Ferguson, maybe things would be different. As it stands now, I have to agree with the Ferguson GJ. However, with the NY cops, I can't see how the cop(s) got away with it.

Because the victim was black and the cop is white. This is Staten Island, after all. No one cares about black people.

I assume even if there were clear video evidence for the Zimmerman Martin case, Zimmerman would still have walked. Obviously, having video evidence and police cams makes no difference. The problem isn't evidence, it is perception. The law always has the upper hand. That should be quite clear by now.

I suppose only when white republican children start dying by the hand of law enforcement will anything be done.
Can you imagine if the tides were turned, the outrage from white republican parents?
Yeah, like that tide would ever happen in America.

Charlie Manson always wanted a race war.
Looks like his wishful thinking was a bit ahead of its time.

That is exactly what happened in the 1980s during the crack/cocaine epidemic. Only when white people started using and dying was it taken seriously. Before then, not a fuck was given.

 

[HomerJS]

Yeah, he did. He had been repeatedly stopped and charged previously for the same thing. If he hadn't performed an illegal act that day, the cops wouldn't have tried to arrest him. But hey, how many times does someone need to be arrested before the police just say, "eh, he's already been arrested for this 3 times, there's no reason to arrest him again."?

And a crime is a crime. Just because it is minimal doesn't mean that the police should just turn their back and walk away. Just because we don't like a law means that the police should just not enforce it,

- Merg

Repeated speeders are not automatically arrested they are issued a ticket/summons

 

[The Merg]

Repeated speeders are not automatically arrested they are issued a ticket/summoms

Speeding is a traffic infraction. Most places do not allow the police to arrest you for a traffic infraction except in specific circumstances (in VA if you refuse to sign the summons, for example). What Garner was doing was apparently a Class A misdemeanor in NY.

- Merg

 

[HomerJS]

Speeding is a traffic infraction. Most places do not allow the police to arrest you for a traffic infraction except in specific circumstances (in VA if you refuse to sign the summons, for example). What Garner was doing was apparently a Class A misdemeanor in NY.

- Merg

There is almost always discretion as to when to enforce. Cops were not forced to arrest they chose to arrest.

Also failure to treat by EMS when he was clearly in distress is another reason to indict.

 

[The Merg]

There is almost always discretion as to when to enforce. Cops were not forced to arrest they chose to arrest.



Also failure to treat by EMS when he was clearly in distress is another reason to indict.

You're right. They do have discretion, however, they opted to arrest him. Maybe it had to do with the fact that they had repeated issues of him committing the same crime or because he was being uncooperative. The fact is that once he was told he's under arrest, he needed to go along with the program.

As for EMS not treating him right away, that is an issue. As I said before, I don't see an issue with the arrest or takedown. My issue is that the cops don't start rendering aid while awaiting EMS to show up. Now, in the videos I've watched, it is very difficult to see when exactly he stops breathing. The cops can't start doing rescue breathing until he stops breathing. However, if there were minutes that he wasn't breathing before EMS arrived, that's a huge issue.

- Merg

 

[sportage]

Just occurred to me, both cases of late involved cigarettes. One stealing and the other selling. Damn tobacco companies. Why is legalizing pot such a big issue while tobacco kills millions more than pot ever would or could and tobacco goes unchallenged.
Make tobacco possession the crime and legalize the healthy stuff.
I never heard of medical tobacco.
The system is screwed up any way you look at it.
(Sorry. Now back to the original topic)

 

[waggy]

Ferguson GJ got it right
NY GJ got it wrong.

/this

I was shocked at the GJ announcement. not surprised just shocked.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Since you asked...

The officer broke policy by using that maneuver. And while the officer does appear to be giving a chokehold, can you actually tell from the video how tight he is holding him? You can even see that the guy is so big that the officer can't lock the chokehold down. There were also no injury to his throat or windpipe and only a small bruise on the back of his neck.

And just because a person that is resisting arrest says they can't breathe or something hurts, the police are supposed to just stop trying to arrest them? The cop makes the arrest and then they assist him. Oh, and by the way, if you can say "you can't breathe", that means that you are breathing.

Now, did the cops treat him correctly after he was in cuffs? I don't know. If there was negligence, I could definitely see that being where it was.

As for it being negligent, apparently the GJ didn't think so.

- Merg

Ah yes, it's good kill, the GJ didn't indict. Nothing to see here, it's all good according to you.

Is there anything a cop does you don't defend? Even when it's clearly wrong, you insert enough weaseling to really not make it look that bad.

Those cops killed him with an unauthorized chokehold. And you are OK with it. GJ said it was good, so nothing to see here.

Anyone shocked that Merg is defending the cops again, as usual?

 

[HomerJS]

Ah yes, it's good kill, the GJ didn't indict. Nothing to see here, it's all good according to you.

Is there anything a cop does you don't defend? Even when it's clearly wrong, you insert enough weaseling to really not make it look that bad.

Those cops killed him with an unauthorized chokehold. And you are OK with it. GJ said it was good, so nothing to see here.

Anyone shocked that Merg is defending the cops again, as usual?

Merg also says "did the cops treat him correctly after he was in cuffs?" Tape clearly shows the cops did not treat him at all. I see no ambiguity here.

 

[sportage]

Of course Z would have walked. Video would have completely changed the perception of what happened because people would immediately see the media lied to them about the "sweet angel" Martin. A video would have been a HUGE relief for Z and there would be absolutely no public outrage about his case.

What?
The kid was simply walking in an area he was justified to be walking in, unarmed, with candy and a drink.
Naturally, when most people are unjustly challenged for doing nothing, they are going to be quite irritated.
Most white folks have never been asked why they were simply walking on the sidewalk, browsing in a store, or driving down the street.
Most white people have no idea what it is to be challenged for just minding their own business.
Maybe if that were to happen, say once, the white guy would just brush it off.
Twice? Then it gets a bit irritating.
As a general rule? Queue the attitude and justly so.
If a white guy wears a gold watch, he gets complimented.
If a black guy wears the same watch, most assume it was stolen.
At least when it comes to law enforcement.

 

[HomerJS]

What?
The kid was simply walking in an area he was justified to be walking in, unarmed, with candy and a drink.
Naturally, when most people are unjustly challenged for doing nothing, they are going to be quite irritated.
Most white folks have never been asked why they were simply walking on the sidewalk, browsing in a store, or driving down the street.
Most white people have no idea what it is to be challenged for just minding their own business.
Maybe if that were to happen, say once, the white guy would just brush it off.
Twice? Then it gets a bit irritating.
As a general rule? Queue the attitude and justly so.
If a white guy wears a gold watch, he gets complimented.
If a black guy wears the same watch, most assume it was stolen.
At least when it comes to law enforcement.

black guy can't even purchase a watch in a store without being questioned/detained. Even if he is well dressed, well spoken and a person of means. You know not "thug looking"

Also fair warning, if you are black and want to go to a store to purchase a bb gun take a white friend.

 

[Oyeve]

Because the victim was black and the cop is white. This is Staten Island, after all. No one cares about black people.



That is exactly what happened in the 1980s during the crack/cocaine epidemic. Only when white people started using and dying was it taken seriously. Before then, not a fuck was given.

Very true. In fact, not until an officer was shot in the head on 6th street and avenue D by a crackhead was a fuck given. I recall avenue B being a war zone with crackhead zombies black and white and latin and the cops just didnt care. The avenue was basically shut down for years and the cops let it be. Then that cop got deaded and the whole outlook changed.

 

[The Merg]

Merg also says "did the cops treat him correctly after he was in cuffs?" Tape clearly shows the cops did not treat him at all. I see no ambiguity here.

I never said that they treated him correctly. Trying reading my posts again. I said that once he stopped breathing that they had the absolute requirement to render him aid.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

Ah yes, it's good kill, the GJ didn't indict. Nothing to see here, it's all good according to you.

Is there anything a cop does you don't defend? Even when it's clearly wrong, you insert enough weaseling to really not make it look that bad.

Those cops killed him with an unauthorized chokehold. And you are OK with it. GJ said it was good, so nothing to see here.

Anyone shocked that Merg is defending the cops again, as usual?

Take a look at my posts in other threads. I have not and will not just defend all cops because they are cops. You keep saying I do, but the facts show that I don't. I didn't agree with the use of force in the Denver case as well as when the officer used the Taser on that lady in Florida. Just because every thread that comes up about a cop using force or killing someone means that it was excessive in your eyes, does not make it so.

- Merg