You mean evidence that would outweigh the autopsy results?
"Eric Garner, 43, died after being placed in a chokehold that caused him to suffer neck and chest compressions during his arrest two weeks ago in the Tompkinsville section of Staten Island, according to findings released by the New York City medical examiners office. Garners weight, chronic asthma and cardiovascular disease were listed as contributing factors."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-garner-homicide-20140801-story.html
...a chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.
Anyone know what the NYPD's Patrol Guide says about chokeholds?
Here's what it says:
At a minimum, under the current wording of the applicable Patrol Guide provision and the common sense understanding of the word "MAY", it is clear that the chokehold prohibition extends to all contact, other than incidental touching, with the complex and fragile pathways of nerves, blood vessels and airway that constitutes the anatomy of the neck.
Source: 2014 New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB) report entitled A Mutated Rule: Lack of Enforcement in the Face of Persistent Chokehold Incidents in New York City
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/downloads/pdf/Chokehold%20Study_20141007.pdf
Seems despite the NYPD banning chokeholds in the 1990s, a New York officer was accused of putting someone in a chokehold, on average, every other day from 2009 through the first half of 2014. (P. 55 of above linked report.)
So, you don't have to asphyxiate anyone to chokehold them. Only put an arm around their neck that MAY impede breathing.
Poor guy. Now this is a case people should be upset about.
Thank you! That should put to rest this " it wasn't a real chokehold" bullshit spouted by our resident apologists.
Thank you! That should put to rest this " it wasn't a real chokehold" bullshit spouted by our resident apologists.
I'd put a large wager down against that logic. A LARGE wager.
I don't see how it put anything top rest as far as what constitutes a choke hold.
If you'll read the definition it is so open ended as to be meaningless. I draw attention specifically to the "but is not limited to" part.
Fern
That was not what the coroner stated......how many in the grand Jury were doctors or coroners???It could be that due to the fact he died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, the grand jury felt his health had more to with his death than the "choke hold" and this is why they chose not to indict.
That was not what the coroner stated......how many in the grand Jury were doctors or coroners???
No, haven't seen Hanity. Not sure why he'd be relevant. I suspect people in his line of work do not employ choke holds etc.
The choke hold is specifically designed to cut off the blood to the brain. Accordingly, pressure is applied to the side of the neck, not the front. In a proper choke hold breathing is largely unaffected. I guess that makes the name "choke hold' inaccurate, but what's new?
Anyone who is a frequent viewer of MMA should be acquainted with the choke hold as they are often employed as a submission technique. No one has ever died in MMA as the result of a choke hold, even when held until the opponent is unconscious.
Fern
-snip-
So, you don't have to asphyxiate anyone to chokehold them. Only put an arm around their neck that MAY impede breathing.
So the MMA is to give a ruling on this so we can clear this up lol? Seriously who cares the man is dead and if the cop did not suffocate him he would be alive.
Surely I would of never pegged you as a MMA watcher you seemed intelligent and well spoken, oh well.
It could be that due to the fact he died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, the grand jury felt his health had more to with his death than the "choke hold" and this is why they chose not to indict.
See post #598.
The linked NYPost article says M.E. says he dies of cardiac arrest in ambulance.
Mr. Garner did not die on that ambulance; I don't care what the official NYPD and ME report states.
Based on the above video, the NYPD are pretending to hold a conversation with a clearly dead man.
Thank you! That should put to rest this " it wasn't a real chokehold" bullshit spouted by our resident apologists.
If you chocked him like that and he died, you'd be arrested and charged with murder, and his health wouldn't make any difference.
So, going by that, the maneuver the officer did may have impeded breathing, but did not actually impede breathing. Thus, what he did, while being against policy, was not illegal.
Just because he has his arm around his neck does not mean he was actually impeding the breathing of the guy. Oh yeah, he kept saying he couldn't breathe, so we need to believe that with 100% certainty. </s>
It could be very well that him being in the prone position with the officer on his back is what actually led to his breathing issues. While video is a terrific tool, it does not show EVERYTHING. I could stand behind someone and put them in the position as if I was putting them in a chokehold, but not actually put the pressure that is needed. For someone filming me from the front, it could look exactly like a chokehold.
The officer jumped up and grabbed him by the neck to pull him to the ground. Once on the ground, the officer rolled off of him and then held him there while other officers handcuffed him. As he is rolling off of him, there is a moment there where his arm is completely across the front of the Garner's throat, but then he let's go of him.
- Merg
However you want to phrase it actions by the police caused Garner to go into physical distress. After, trained medical professionals failed to administer adequate assistance at the scene.
Sounds like negligent homicide.
Once the person that chooses to render his/her opinion understands this overarching direction, they also need to be aware of these guidelines while making their determination of the reasonableness of the officers force response:
1.) Judged through the perspective of a reasonable officerIn order for an officers use of force to be deemed objectively reasonable, his/her force response (what and how) must be reasonably balanced with the governmental interests at stake (why). The officers force response level (quantum) can be measured by evaluating:
a. Officer with same or similar training and experience
b. Facing similar circumstances
c. Act the same way or use similar judgment
2.) Based on the totality of the facts known to the officer at the time the force was applied
a. No matter how compelling the evidence is to be found later
b. No hindsight evaluation
3.) Based on the facts known to the officer without regard to the underlying intent or motivation
4.) Based on the knowledge the officer acted properly under established law at the time
1.) what force option was used, andAnother way of viewing this would be to ask the question, What was the reasonable expectation of injury?
2.) how it was used.
In Graham, the SCOTUS gave law enforcement several factors to examine when evaluating the why of an officers force option including, but not limited to:
1.) the severity of crime at issue,Objectively reasonable is the true and most accurate legal standard when both teaching use of force, and/or evaluating an officers past use of force. Using any other standard is avoidably dangerous because it is a false legal standard and can be easily misinterpreted or misrepresented either knowingly or not.
2.) the threat of the suspect, and
3.) the level of resistance offered by the suspect.
11 Minorities and no liberal leaning members in the remaining 13? In NYC?
So, going by that, the maneuver the officer did may have impeded breathing, but did not actually impede breathing. Thus, what he did, while being against policy, was not illegal.
Just because he has his arm around his neck does not mean he was actually impeding the breathing of the guy. Oh yeah, he kept saying he couldn't breathe, so we need to believe that with 100% certainty. </s>
It could be very well that him being in the prone position with the officer on his back is what actually led to his breathing issues. While video is a terrific tool, it does not show EVERYTHING. I could stand behind someone and put them in the position as if I was putting them in a chokehold, but not actually put the pressure that is needed. For someone filming me from the front, it could look exactly like a chokehold.
The officer jumped up and grabbed him by the neck to pull him to the ground. Once on the ground, the officer rolled off of him and then held him there while other officers handcuffed him. As he is rolling off of him, there is a moment there where his arm is completely across the front of the Garner's throat, but then he let's go of him.
- Merg