man dies after NYPD cop puts him in chokehold

[The Merg]

Let me accidentally cut your main artery and allow you to bleed to death, I'm sure your family will be fine with no charge. After all it was an accident and the cut didn't kill you, it was the bleeding that followed, that's on you!

Yeah, your argument is that fucking stupid!

Your example is not even similar to what I was pointing out. You keep seeming to forget the Supreme Court ruled that the police can use the force reasonable to make the arrest. The fact that Garner ended up dying does not come into play due to the result of the force used. Any negligence that would be there would be from the cops not rendering aid to him afterwards. Have you read the Graham v. Connor decision and what it says about police use of force?

Here's a summary again of what it says... http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36963369&postcount=622

- Merg

 

[senseamp]

I am sure cops won't mind if Americans serving on juries acquit cop-killers. As long as the killer says he didn't mean it, it's all good.

 

[HomerJS]

The witness who shot cell phone video of Eric Garner being placed in a chokehold during his arrest says that the grand jurors who investigated his death "already had their minds made up" when he testified about what he saw, the New York Daily News reported Thursday.

"I feel like it wasn't fair at all," the witness, Ramsey Orta, told the Daily News in an exclusive interview. "It wasn't fair from the start."
Orta, 22, told the newspaper that when he testified on Sept. 1 before the grand jury investigating Garner's death, he was prepared to spend hours being questioned. Instead, he said he found the grand jury distracted and disinterested in his testimony, which ended up taking only 10 minutes.

"When I went to the grand jury to speak on my behalf, nobody in the grand jury was even paying attention to what I had to say," Orta said. "People were on their phones, people were talking. I feel like they didn't give (Garner) a fair grand jury."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...ness-who-shot-garner-video-says-grand-n261621

 

[shady28]

I'm glad police brutality is getting on national center stage. How many threads have been on this forum on this topic.

It's too bad that it's being made out to be a race thing by the press - it isn't. It's an accountability thing for the police. Look at pictures of the protesters, more than half are not black. Police brutality doesn't just happen to black people.

The Garner thing reminds me of the homeless (white) guy (Kelly Thomas) that 3 police officers killed in CA. He choked to death on his own blood.

The Ferguson thing was a joke. The Garner one is weak by comparison to many cases, but real enough to get some credibility. The recent shooting of the 12 year old was real enough as well.

It seems like black Americans are the only ones willing to stand up and fight for their rights. I say more power to em.

Here's the cops murdering a homeless guy in NM, earlier this year :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DngOL6LokN4

This is the unarmed homeless guy CA cops murdered:

I think the pattern is that they pick on anyone they view as powerless.

 

[PlanetJosh]

Well minorities and the powerless may get killed by the authorities but middle class whites face a fate worse than death if they lose their jobs in corporate downsizing or other reason. Having to move back in with their parents.

 

[bradley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DngOL6LokN4

This is the unarmed homeless guy CA cops murdered:


I think the pattern is that they pick on anyone they view as powerless.

It's human nature to pick on the weakest who become separated from the herd, or for even daring to associate with the weakest. These sociopathic sadists were obviously sensing blood. Monsters.

 

[trenchfoot]

Anyone know what the NYPD's Patrol Guide says about chokeholds?

Here's what it says:



At a minimum, under the current wording of the applicable Patrol Guide provision and the common sense understanding of the word "MAY", it is clear that the chokehold prohibition extends to all contact, other than incidental touching, with the complex and fragile pathways of nerves, blood vessels and airway that constitutes the anatomy of the neck.


Source: 2014 New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB) report entitled A Mutated Rule: Lack of Enforcement in the Face of Persistent Chokehold Incidents in New York City

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/downloads/pdf/Chokehold%20Study_20141007.pdf


Seems despite the NYPD banning chokeholds in the 1990s, a New York officer was accused of putting someone in a chokehold, on average, every other day from 2009 through the first half of 2014. (P. 55 of above linked report.)


So, you don't have to asphyxiate anyone to chokehold them. Only put an arm around their neck that MAY impede breathing.

In the numerous contract negotiations that I have been involved with, the word "MAY" is a term that's used when all parties involved agree that it's to everyone's advantage that broad discretion or a broad interpretation of a section of language is specified. This allows all parties to "barter" in give-and-take style within the construct of the language the term is applied to.

The term is also used in contract language to allow for a side-step in language to get around a sticking point that can be dealt with at a later time, where after an agreement is made as to the specifics of the language, the term "MAY" is replaced with the term "SHALL".

So the way I see the language you have referred to, is that it's to the advantage of the authors of the language and a disadvantage to those who wish to use that term against the authors, as the authors have the power to dictate what the INTENT of the language is, and can dismiss what any other party interprets it as.

We can interpret what "MAY" means within the context of the language it resides in any way we want, but in my experience, it's the folks who can claim what the intent of the language is that will persevere in an argument. Such being the case, along with the term being so capricious and vague in the way it was used, it seems to me the NYPD (the authors) can interpret that language any way they want without having to defend against any other interpretation they don't like.

Just my opinion anyway.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm glad police brutality is getting on national center stage. How many threads have been on this forum on this topic.

It's too bad that it's being made out to be a race thing by the press - it isn't. It's an accountability thing for the police. Look at pictures of the protesters, more than half are not black. Police brutality doesn't just happen to black people.

The Garner thing reminds me of the homeless (white) guy (Kelly Thomas) that 3 police officers killed in CA. He choked to death on his own blood.

The Ferguson thing was a joke. The Garner one is weak by comparison to many cases, but real enough to get some credibility. The recent shooting of the 12 year old was real enough as well.

It seems like black Americans are the only ones willing to stand up and fight for their rights. I say more power to em.

Here's the cops murdering a homeless guy in NM, earlier this year :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DngOL6LokN4

This is the unarmed homeless guy CA cops murdered:

I think the pattern is that they pick on anyone they view as powerless.

Actually its both a race and police brutality thing. For every one of these you get 20 happening to blacks. There is an inherent suspicion of especially black males leading to cases like Garner.

The makeup of the crowds is mostly younger people across racial lines not because police abuse occurs equally across races but the brutality against people of color is a nationwide issue not just a minority issue.

Automatic suspicion of blacks is not just a police problem if you recall Trayvon Martin and Jordon Davis.

 

[Blanky]

I'm glad police brutality is getting on national center stage. How many threads have been on this forum on this topic.

It's too bad that it's being made out to be a race thing by the press - it isn't. It's an accountability thing for the police. Look at pictures of the protesters, more than half are not black. Police brutality doesn't just happen to black people.

The Garner thing reminds me of the homeless (white) guy (Kelly Thomas) that 3 police officers killed in CA. He choked to death on his own blood.

The Ferguson thing was a joke. The Garner one is weak by comparison to many cases, but real enough to get some credibility. The recent shooting of the 12 year old was real enough as well.

It seems like black Americans are the only ones willing to stand up and fight for their rights. I say more power to em.

Here's the cops murdering a homeless guy in NM, earlier this year :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DngOL6LokN4

What the fuck?! That guy ACTUALLY had his hands up. He was turning away from the cops, what a bunch of useless pigs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/james-boyd-killed-by-cops_n_5021117.html

 

[Blanky]

For every one of these you get 20 happening to blacks.

You really don't. Go look at the racial make up of police shootings, you won't see 20 X more blacks killed than whites.

Pigs are going to pig regardless of race. This knee jerk assumption by some in the black community that a white cop killing a black person assumes racism is totally incorrect. There are plenty of examples of cops killing people of all races under bullshit circumstances. That homeless guy shot by the cops is a fantastic example of a guy who didn't need to die that day. Neither did Eric Garner. Youtube is littered with cops acting like unmitigated assholes to whites as well as blacks. This is not a primarily racial issue, it is one of bullies in uniforms looking to powertrip on people they see as below them.

It's so disappointing now that even when these people are caught on video killing people they still aren't charged. That is a real problem.

It's like the only way a cop will get charged with murder now is to admit on video he loves to kill people for sport. There are some exceptions, like the white cop indicted this week for the 2011 killing of a black guy.

 

[HomerJS]

You really don't. Go look at the racial make up of police shootings, you won't see 20 X more blacks killed than whites.

Pigs are going to pig regardless of race. This knee jerk assumption by some in the black community that a white cop killing a black person assumes racism is totally incorrect. There are plenty of examples of cops killing people of all races under bullshit circumstances. That homeless guy shot by the cops is a fantastic example of a guy who didn't need to die that day. Neither did Eric Garner. Youtube is littered with cops acting like unmitigated assholes to whites as well as blacks. This is not a primarily racial issue, it is one of bullies in uniforms looking to powertrip on people they see as below them.

It's so disappointing now that even when these people are caught on video killing people they still aren't charged. That is a real problem.

It's like the only way a cop will get charged with murder now is to admit on video he loves to kill people for sport. There are some exceptions, like the white cop indicted this week for the 2011 killing of a black guy.

There have been numerous studies showing the inherent bias towards people of color. U of Chicago even did a first person shooter test with the same results. There were measured physical response differences when targets were black vs white.

 

[Linux23]

You mean evidence that would outweigh the autopsy results?

"Eric Garner, 43, died after being placed in a chokehold that caused him to suffer neck and chest compressions during his arrest two weeks ago in the Tompkinsville section of Staten Island, according to findings released by the New York City medical examiner’s office. Garner’s weight, chronic asthma and cardiovascular disease were listed as contributing factors."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-garner-homicide-20140801-story.html

Bet that ME examiner is now working in the city's dog pound after releasing those findings.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't see how it put anything top rest as far as what constitutes a choke hold.

If you'll read the definition it is so open ended as to be meaningless. I draw attention specifically to the "but is not limited to" part.

Fern

So wait, before you were saying it wasn't a choke hold and probably wasn't against department policy as an important detail. Now when informed that according to the NYPD it was both a choke hold and against policy you declare that to be meaningless?

 

[Linux23]

[NEW UNSEEN VIDEO] NYPD Chokehold Death : Eric Garner Chokehold Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

Mr. Garner did not die on that ambulance; I don't care what the official NYPD and ME report states.

Based on the above video, the NYPD are pretending to hold a conversation with a clearly dead man. The EMT is pretending to find a pulse on a clearly dead man. No one even attempts to revive him. Instead Mr. Garner is on the receiving end of a bunch of cowboys unnecessarily escalating a basic misdemeanor. What an egregious injustice for this case not to be allowed a criminal trial.

Shhhh. It's called a cover up.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

[NEW UNSEEN VIDEO] NYPD Chokehold Death : Eric Garner Chokehold Death

Mr. Garner did not die on that ambulance; I don't care what the official NYPD and ME report states.

Based on the above video, the NYPD are pretending to hold a conversation with a clearly dead man. The EMT is pretending to find a pulse on a clearly dead man. No one even attempts to revive him. Instead Mr. Garner is on the receiving end of a bunch of cowboys unnecessarily escalating a basic misdemeanor. What an egregious injustice for this case not to be allowed a criminal trial.

You do realize that the jury has to use the evidence in the case that's put before then such as the ME autopsy report/EMT testimony which states/affirms that Eric Garner died in the ambulance.

 

[Linux23]

What the fuck?! That guy ACTUALLY had his hands up. He was turning away from the cops, what a bunch of useless pigs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/james-boyd-killed-by-cops_n_5021117.html

didn't watch the video but that just sickens me.

what are the circumstances when police are unjustified in shooting someone? do they just need to say "i feared for me life" and just go on about their business? i mean WTF???

 

[dmcowen674]

I'm glad police brutality is getting on national center stage.

How many threads have been on this forum on this topic.

Sadly look at all the Police Brutality supporters on here though and this has brought a full onslaught by those Apologists.

As usual numbers always wins and they will be shown to be on the wrong side of history.

I have a friend that I grew up with in New York that is a photojournalist and he was in the middle of the protests in New York City last night and got many historic shots.

New York is the original Melting Pot and New Yorkers will not stand for Police Brutality, period.

 

[Blanky]

There have been numerous studies showing the inherent bias towards people of color. U of Chicago even did a first person shooter test with the same results. There were measured physical response differences when targets were black vs white.

I'm not denying it. Blacks are victimized by police more per capita. However, they are still such a small minority that I think police brutality in general is at least as likely to affect non-blacks, in terms of total number of cases.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Damn! You called it /shakes head

I take paypal

 

[Blanky]

Sadly look at all the Police Brutality supporters on here though and this has brought a full onslaught by those Apologists.

What thread are you replying to? Clearly not this one. The vast bulk of people in this thread are questioning the decision to not charge this cop in Eric Garner's death. And, in contrast, the vast bulk of people in the Michael Brown thread didn't question it. They are totally different scenarios.

 

[Blanky]

Interesting. A different video of him after he's been choked out. Go to the 6:58 mark. See that guy there mockingly waving, proud at what he's done? Yeah, that's the guy who choked him out (shirt is a dead giveaway).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

He's just choked a guy out unconscious over a stupid arrest and he's quite proud of himself. And still employed by that police department.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Interesting. A different video of him after he's been choked out. Go to the 6:58 mark. See that guy there mockingly waving, proud at what he's done? Yeah, that's the guy who choked him out (shirt is a dead giveaway).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIgNaweISM

He's just choked a guy out unconscious over a stupid arrest and he's quite proud of himself. And still employed by that police department.

bad youtube link, sorry, incorrect link

 

[smackababy]

Let me accidentally cut your main artery and allow you to bleed to death, I'm sure your family will be fine with no charge. After all it was an accident and the cut didn't kill you, it was the bleeding that followed, that's on you!

Yeah, your argument is that fucking stupid!

This happens all the time. Kids playing wrestling accidentally kill their little brother / friend / whatever. Should those kids be charged with murder? Of course not!



The part that should have been criminally investigated and went to a GJ were the paramedics who refused to render aid. That is negligence.

 

[Blanky]

bad youtube link, sorry, incorrect link

Haha, yeah really, damn where is the 10 minute vid gone.

FUIXED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

 

[moonbogg]

Is this thread still a thing? I can't believe people are protesting this. America has an odd obsession for saying and embracing things that are the exact opposite of the truth. Its this contrarian attitude, or political correctness that America is obsessed with. When did embracing the truth become rude or unfashionable?

A giant man resists arrest. He is tackled. He dies from health issues. This is racism? Clearly it isn't, so the right thing to do is to claim racism, according to people who hate truth and love the false. Backwards America. Fucking odd.

Too many gun deaths in America? Give Americans more guns.

Crime problem in America? Crucify the cops, defend the criminals.

Bad economy in America? Pay people to not work.

Muslims hate America? Bomb Muslim countries.

Poor education in America? Make college expensive. Cut public education spending.

Too much cancer in America? Defend tobacco, destroy E-cigs.

Racism in America? Vote in black president? Wait, this one doesn't fit. Oh wait, maybe it does. Fuck it. Who knows anymore.