Man Loses Pulse for 45 Minutes,Wakes Up With Incredible Vision of Afterlife

[flexy]

Can YOU explain why out of the 100's or 1000's of people who have "died" and been brought back to life, why not a single one of them experienced something called hell?

And, if the ultimate goal is to get to Heaven in the afterlife, why the heck would anyone consider getting there, then being shipped back to this place is winning? Shouldn't it be, "Oh, I got in there, but they sent me back for a few years. Now, I've got to be really careful that I don't screw something up and end up in the other place, since I've got to go through dying again."

And, if Heaven exists and is awesome, why would terminally ill people with cancer bother to get treated?? Hey, you're a bit closer to Heaven. A few sects do seem to follow this logic. I.e., no blood transfusions, etc.

Wow..you're seriously bringing in "Hell" and "Heaven"?

The answer is, ironically, super simple:

They don't experience hell because hell doesn't exist.
They don't experience the *classic* heaven, aka "eternal paradise" since this doesn't exist in this sense either.

Although SOME NDE/afterlife experiences come close to the "heaven" idea, somewhat.

PS: According to my knowledge, most souls don't "go to heaven in the afterlife"...but instead choose to be reborn or enter some other type of existence...on a journey to learn and to experience. Only the most mature/developed souls can (or choose to) stay in the "afterlife" forever, where, this is also my understanding, they "transform"..possibly become one with the "universal consciousness" aka "god".

Point is that according to *my belief*, the classical afterlife scenario where you die and your soul then enters "paradise forever" doesn't apply. The best to describe it is that this "afterlife" is actually a "between life", respective "between existence".

I go even further:

I claim that this "in between life" is actually where we become (for a short time, at least) our TRUE SELF again, what we really are. And you realize that this physical existence, here, from birth to death...is only a small aspect of a much bigger whole.

 

[flexy]

I don't believe it......

I also don't find 'heaven" appealing at all. So let's say you get there, what's next?

Sit back, kick your feet up and relax? That gets boring REALLY quick.

If there is nothing to do, I would rather not exist.

You will, indeed, "sit back" and evaluate your experiences in this lived life...and you will choose a next life/existence if you feel that you still need more learning.

 

[flexy]

If anyone could show any existence of a Spiritual realm

Give me your definition of spiritual

Spiritual Realm:

Why is the monk who seeks enlightening meditating?
Why is a shaman taking drugs?
Why are native tribes using drugs or other ways to induce trance/other states of consciousness to see "the spiritual realm"?

Think about it, you will find your answer what the "spiritual realm" is.

 

[pyrolyser]

Just to contribute to the subject, I read an interesting article from the dailymail which does attribute the out-of-body experience that many NDE victims experience to activity patterns in the parietal and temporal lobes of the brain (the experiment was successfully reproduced in healthy subjects and and their brain activity was monitored with an MRI).

The general consensus among NDE researchers seems to attribute the triggering factor to brain hypoxia. While it might seem like a simplistic approach to attribute all of the facets of NDE experiences to hypoxia, we should not forget that it triggers a cascade of reactions that can each be responsible for a particular aspect of the NDE experience.

Take the "bright light" phenomenon that many NDE victims have reported for example. It has been hypothesized that hypoxia causes the release of free radicals that can in turn cause an increase in luminescence of biophotons.

One characteristic of NDE is that they are somewhat similar irrespective of age, gender or culture. I would therefore tend to argue that it does suggest that the same biochemical reactions are being reproduced when somewhat similar conditions are met.

 

[swamplizard]

http://pix11.com/2014/02/18/man-los...-wakes-up-with-incredible-vision-of-afterlife

Well god bless him!!!!

Would anyone want to really come back here?? (With how bad this place has gotton??)

Hi Dude111,

Good topic with excellent responses. I somewhat agree with Flexy.

Words to live by:

Life is more than life. Respect all. That's it.

 

[swamplizard]

Hey Flexy,

Read "The Shack" by William P. Young. It is an excellent piece of fiction(?).

 

[Subyman]

Anyone that has been in a k-hole has seen the same thing, but it is explained as the brain not being able to reconcile having no inputs. It is disembodied, which is the closest thing you can get to experiencing what being a "soul" is like.

 

[flexy]

One characteristic of NDE is that they are somewhat similar irrespective of age, gender or culture. I would therefore tend to argue that it does suggest that the same biochemical reactions are being reproduced when somewhat similar conditions are met.

They are, as a whole similar, but can, at certain stages, reflect what someone expects based on their beliefs/religion. For example, an Indian's NDE could be somewhat different in the details as compared to the NDE of a Westerner.

For me, on the other hand, that "it is a biological reaction" isn't satisfactory and it explains nothing - because OF COURSE our entire brain/mind and thus our perception of reality works based on "biological reactions".

I could argue that you or the fact I am communicating with you here on a forum is a "biological reaction". Well, on one hand it sure is and on another of course this would be a very poor explanation of reality

I like the idea that the brain functions as a "receiver", not even so much for "reality" but actually for our entire being/self. Maybe this "self", this consciousness is part of "the universe" - the brain enables it to inhabitate a body for the sake of physical existence.

Differently spoken: If we say that such experiences are "merely" the result of chemical reactions, it is as if we'd say that music coming from a radio or a show on TV is the result of electronic components. But of course the radio or the TV didn't "create" the music or the show.

 

[KMFJD]

Nvm

 

[pyrolyser]

the "hallucinations of the brain" due to oxygen deprivation are the silliest, most un-scientific explanation. I take it you have never pursued this interesting subject yourself.

My point is that it is dismissive on your part to qualify the brain hypoxia hypothesis as "silly"and "unscientific" when there is sufficient evidence out there to back it up. Of course it will not completely explain the NDE phenomenon but it does give us a pretty good idea of what is happening on a biochemical level.

To come back to your argument that it's hallucinations, explain to me why people who have NDEs report pretty much the same experiences (with some distinctions, depending on their beliefs)..not some chaotic "hallucinations"?

I touched the aspect of similarity to try to address your question on why NDEs tend to be somewhat similar. So I brought up common themes such as out of body experience and the bright light.

Explain to me why people who have NDEs report ONLY, and ONLY to meet actual deceased people and why there is not one single NDE report I am aware of where a person "meets" living people or "fantasy people".

Explain to me how it comes that afterlife experiences are consistent and the same, for hundreds of years, across cultures actually.

I think you answered your first sentence with the second one. The concept of afterlife is very old and share similarities across cultures. We have all been exposed to the concept of death as transition from one realm to another where we all expect to be reunited with deceased ones. I would argue that this exposure has hardcoded a strong belief in most if not all of us that it's logical to "meet" deceased people at the time of our death. This is therefore the pathway that electrical signals between the different centers of the brain that are most likely to follow to give you such an experience.

For me, on the other hand, that "it is a biological reaction" isn't satisfactory and it explains nothing - because OF COURSE our entire brain/mind and thus our perception of reality works based on "biological reactions".

I could argue that you or the fact I am communicating with you here on a forum is a "biological reaction". Well, on one hand it sure is and on another of course this would be a very poor explanation of reality

The fact that most most human behavior can be explained by biochemical reactions does not mean that everything should be similar. We are discussing here about the highly complex system that is the human brain. I know you don't like the hypoxia theory but bear with me for a second. People who have had NDEs have suffered from varying degrees of hypoxia in turn causing a cascade of reactions that may vary in sequence, intensity, etc... There are so many variables to take into consideration even if we exclude the genetic composition of the individual, whether he/she has an underlying medical condition.

Differently spoken: If we say that such experiences are "merely" the result of chemical reactions, it is as if we'd say that music coming from a radio or a show on TV is the result of electronic components. But of course the radio or the TV didn't "create" the music or the show.

I know that throwing the term biological reaction at every turn to try to explain everything is a very simplistic way to look at things. I know we'll both agree that it is far more complex than that but the scientific basis is there and it is sound.

I like the idea that the brain functions as a "receiver", not even so much for "reality" but actually for our entire being/self. Maybe this "self", this consciousness is part of "the universe" - the brain enables it to inhabitate a body for the sake of physical existence.

It is an interesting take on consciousness and I respect that. Sadly we don't have to technological means to disprove or prove it yet. Until then, I will tend to rely on the information that is already available and maybe extrapolate a little but that does not prevent me from having an open mind.

 

[flexy]

The concept of afterlife is very old and share similarities across cultures. We have all been exposed to the concept of death as transition from one realm to another where we all expect to be reunited with deceased ones. I would argue that this exposure has hardcoded a strong belief in most if not all of us that it's logical to "meet" deceased people at the time of our death. This is therefore the pathway that electrical signals between the different centers of the brain that are most likely to follow to give you such an experience.

This would mean that only people who believe in an afterlife would have such experiences, but there is no indication this is so. Obviously I don't have "statistics" in front of me, but there are cases where people who entirely rejected the idea of "afterlife" had NDEs...where maybe the NDE itself was the reason they even started to believe in a life after death.

On the other hand, the idea of an afterlife may well be "hard-wired" in us even if we consciously would reject it, but that would be sort-of far fetched as an explanation. It would be like claiming everyone "deep inside" is Christian, even the most outspoken atheists/agnostics?

We are discussing here about the highly complex system that is the human brain. I know you don't like the hypoxia theory but bear with me for a second. People who have had NDEs have suffered from varying degrees of hypoxia in turn causing a cascade of reactions that may vary in sequence, intensity, etc... There are so many variables to take into consideration even if we exclude the genetic composition of the individual, whether he/she has an underlying medical condition.

For me, there are various aspects which speak against hypoxia.

NDEs which occurred in people who didn't have injuries or anything which would even indicate a physiological problem. I think I remember reading of cases where people had NDEs in "almost accident" situations, where they avoided an accident *barely*, things like that...and nevertheless had an experience.

NDEs which happened in people whose brains were literally "off" with no brain function whatsoever. It is sort-of a lot to ask to to imagine that people would have extraordinary experiences which in some cases would exceed even "reality" in terms of details, depth etc...in situations where they brain doesn't even function - or at least not according to our medical understanding. Of course you are correct saying that the brain/mind is extremely complex and we can't simply know [everything].

 

[pyrolyser]

This would mean that only people who believe in an afterlife would have such experiences, but there is no indication this is so. Obviously I don't have "statistics" in front of me, but there are cases where people who entirely rejected the idea of "afterlife" had NDEs...where maybe the NDE itself was the reason they even started to believe in a life after death.

On the other hand, the idea of an afterlife may well be "hard-wired" in us even if we consciously would reject it, but that would be sort-of far fetched as an explanation. It would be like claiming everyone "deep inside" is Christian, even the most outspoken atheists/agnostics?

I have used the word belief in my previous post but I did not mean it in the religious/spiritual sense of the word. People do not necessarily need to believe in afterlife to "encounter" deceased relatives during NDEs. We have extensive proof that the concept of afterlife is as old as civilization itself. The keyword here is exposure and not necessarily belief. There are variations among different cultures and ages but they do share similarities as well.
As kids many of us might have been experience irrational fears of monsters and even if the elders could provide rational explanations as to why they do not exist. The inability of a young mind to completely grasp everything might leave room for some external influence whether we want it or not.
You have to keep in mind that a victim of NDE must have full cognitive function to make sense of what is really going on, which is often not the case.

NDEs which occurred in people who didn't have injuries or anything which would even indicate a physiological problem. I think I remember reading of cases where people had NDEs in "almost accident" situations, where they avoided an accident *barely*, things like that...and nevertheless had an experience.

Transcient ischemic attacks can be a plausible cause for NDE without the need for injury. In the case of people avoiding an accident and subsequently having an NDE then hypoxia will most likely not explain it as it is different to the case presented by the OP unless it follows a similar mechanism to syncope following a sudden and intense stress. In that case it would be good to know the specific details pertaining to the case because out-of-body experiences have been successfully reproduced in healthy individuals for experimental purposes. The term NDE covers a variety of experiences ranging from light at the end of a tunnel to meeting deceased relatives and in non-injury induced NDE it is important to know which one was prevalent.

NDEs which happened in people whose brains were literally "off" with no brain function whatsoever. It is sort-of a lot to ask to to imagine that people would have extraordinary experiences which in some cases would exceed even "reality" in terms of details, depth etc...in situations where they brain doesn't even function - or at least not according to our medical understanding. Of course you are correct saying that the brain/mind is extremely complex and we can't simply know [everything].

You have to agree with me that for patients to give an account of their NDEs, they do need to recover enough brain function and therefore the damage was not as extensive as originally thought. We do also have to take into consideration the technique used to monitor brain activity, whether it was an EEG and/or imaging. EEG does have it's limitations as it will record relatively superficial brain activity and as it is dependent on electrical signals, they can be influenced by other equipment used to monitor the patient's vitals as is common in an ICU setting.
My approach is to first eliminate every possible scientific explanation before considering other alternatives.

 

[Tweak155]

Where in the Bible does it say that's our purpose for existence? If someone dies at a young age - babies dying in the first year of their lives - their opportunities to love others is cut short, if it ever happened at all. Thus, if God's purpose for us to be on Earth is to love each other, then what was the purpose of the baby who dies at an age of 3 months?

While I see I'm late to "the game", why is the biblical definition of afterlife the only possible definition?

The bible can be wrong and there still be an afterlife. There could also be a god and the bible is wrong about the god.

At the end of the day, no one knows for sure. I don't take any credence from this guy's experience (or any others), for all we know he is making it up. However, he could be spot on. No way to know at the end of the day.

 

[flexy]

I don't believe in "the" (one) afterlife. What I believe is that our "soul" (true self) is independent of the body, that the brain (simply spoken) is only a RECEIVER for the ego/true self - for the purpose that this true self can live a (temporary) existence in physicality. (Obviously it needs a physical body to live out physicality).

I believe that our "true self" can live several existences and that this "afterlife" is an intermediary state. Eg. reincarnation, but possibly even an existence as another form of being, not necessarily human.

I believe that it's possible we can choose the type of life we want to live, and that the purpose of this is as a learning experience w/ the goal for the true self/soul to mature. (The ULTIMATE goal of those "life" experiences might be to learn that the key is giving up the ego/selfishness etc.)

At some stage, when the "true self" has learned and advanced, based on lives lived we *can* enter an actual, permanent "after life" existence. Based on maturity/experiences etc. of the soul. (Or in other words: When our soul is 'enlightened' and we're ready/mature to enter this permanent afterlife, to "become one" with whatever).

* The bible definition of the afterlife, IMHO, is distorted since it gets it only party right, eg. the principle that there IS one life/afterlife, with the absurd idea that we then get judged by some angry god who doesn't like us to masturbate or using swear words....let alone the hilarious ideas of "hell", or the "paradise" with angels singing etc.

Other philosophies/religions are MUCH closer to the "truth".

IMHO...there is more evidence that our true self/mind is independent from the body than there is evidence this ain't so. NDEs etc. would just be one of those evidences. Other hints would be looking at various religions/philosophies and to see those things that are common across MANY beliefs/religions, or experiences in extraordinary states of consciousness. (drugs, trance, meditation, religious experiences, out of body experiences, even dreams etc.)

VERY simple example: In a dream I can do everything to experience an actual "reality", for the duration of the dream I am actually not even aware it's "just a dream". I hear, I see, I touch. How is it possible with my actual, physical eyes closed? I am experiencing a reality and I do NOT need a physical body to do this.

-- Of course, a scientist now would counter: "It's just a dream, your mind at work". Or "It's just a drug, what you experience is not 'real'". But the thing here is that this is actually not relevant.

 

[ericlp]

So... It took him 45 minutes for someone to grab his arm and tell him he's got places to go and things to do...

Joy. I actually think that we all get one ticket, and we ride the merry-go-round one time. This is it, what you do with your time here while still alive is up to you.

That being said, it would be really cool, if there was some sort of curtain that gets drawn open, you know like the one on the wizard of ozz. To show you the behind the scenes of what really is happening. If so, I hope we get to just chose where we want to go... I've kept that place in my mind. A place on the beach... Where time stands pretty much still, the sun is always around 5-5:30, you feel no pain, and you never feel hungry or tired...Just perfect.

On this beach are perfect sets of 4-6' waves that break out half a mile from the perfect beach. There are no other people on this beach, just you and your favorite dog... And it stretches for miles as far as the eye can see. There is also a variety of body boards and surf boards. So you can just surf for hours. Come back, relax and sit on the perfect beach with your dog...

Hmmmm.... Oh well... I hope I don't see a staircase or some white light. That would suck. I don't believe in heaven or hell, so, I doubt I'll be going to either place.

 

[swamplizard]

Hi Flexy and all others who find this topic fascinating,

I can offer no proof that there is more to life than life.
I cannot convince anyone here that my own experiences are not "hallucinations."

Yet, if you would take the word from someone who has had "out of body" experiences, had dreams that came true, knew things before they happened, then you are on the journey that leads to something more than your imagination can possibly conjure.

Flexy, you and I are on basically the same page. This is my last sojourn here in a physical form and I believe that I have been here many times before, just like George S. Patton. Can I prove any of the aforementioned? Of course not, I can only relate a pattern over my brief time here that substantiates it for me and those who would approach my experiences with an open mind and trust.

 

[Guurn]

I happen to believe in the afterlife and have been "down" with a widowmaker for just under 30 minutes. The only way I can explain what happened to me is that my brain powered off exactly like flipping the switch on the back of a computer and waking up was just like watching the screen on a computer as it reboots. I slowly put the pieces of memory and events together, guessing at parts I wasn't sure of. I didn't make things up and had no imagined events. It made a good case, from my perspective, for quantum immortality.

 

[Rakehellion]

Why is a shaman taking drugs?

To hallucinate, which is what the guy in the story did.

 

[JEDIYoda]

If anyone could show any existence of a Spiritual realm, then maybe it could be believed. Same goes for a god.

Here we go again...the most illogical argument against,,,,lolol

 

[sandorski]

Here we go again...the most illogical argument against,,,,lolol

No, the showing of Evidence would end this argument. An argument that has been going on for more than 2000 years. Why is there no Evidence?

 

[swamplizard]

No, the showing of Evidence would end this argument. An argument that has been going on for more than 2000 years. Why is there no Evidence?

Hi sandorski,

Look into the mirror, completely naked and say aloud, "I am." Do this with an open mind at least once a day.

 

[sandorski]

Hi sandorski,

Look into the mirror, completely naked and say aloud, "I am." Do this with an open mind at least once a day.

Let's cut to the chase...what would that accomplish?

 

[swamplizard]

Let's cut to the chase...what would that accomplish?

Hi sandorski,

Nothing if you don't try it. It's up to you. You were looking for evidence and I'm trying to supply it, but you have to look for it within yourself; that is your part. No one can tender you the proof you are looking for if you dismiss it without exploration.

 

[sm625]

I read Proof of Heaven. I liked the book. I am aware of the controversy surrounding the book. No doubt there are those who would say that Eben had seen a photo of Betsy before his coma, and that is how he had the imagery of her in his mind. Some will say anything. There is no real proof either way.

I myself have had an NDE. This was in 1995. My entire life flashed before my eyes, but unlike most other accounts, I distinctly remember that mine flashed backwards. I had a profound sense that my mind was being downloaded, or rather uploaded. (The concept of uploading was pretty much unknown to me in 1995, though I did have some vague concept of "downloading" despite this experience predating my first download of anything.) But I have no proof. Had I been implanted with imagery of stock ticker symbols and dates then I would have some solid evidence, but afaik I was given nothing. Although I have written a stock market indicator that is imho worth several million dollars, potentially extending into the 8 figure realm, I cannot credit this experience since I have always been in the top 99th percentile in math and the top 99.9th percentile in spatial reasoning so it was only natural for me to create something like that.

 

[flexy]

There are some astonishing accounts where little children have memories of a former life. (There was even a TV series made about this, but those accounts exist for a long time already.)

The theory here is that we (or most of us) are born with those memories of a former life but forget them at about age 5-7.

Even if there is only ONE credible account of a former life, from 100s, if not 1000s...isn't this evidence for that our "self" is more than just a body creating our mind/consciousness with the help of although an incredibly complex brain.

If only one of those accounts is credible and cannot be explained, it's evidence that our mind (true self, soul, whatever you want to call it) is independent and is much more than a one-time existence bound to a physical body.

One has to ask why such astonishing accounts of children who remember a former life are not making headlines and are being "taken serious"....as is the case in other cultures where reincarnation is thought of being "normal".

The answer is, of course, that the idea of a soul/true self that can incarnate whatever many times is contradicting what we are taught in Church There, it's all about this ONE life here on Earth and then judgement by the evil god who throws us either in eternal hell or rewards us with eternal paradise.