Man, this housing thing is going to get REALLY ugly

[MrSquished]

Interesting article in the Times about zoning changes in Cali, and mentions how too much reliance on SFM really helped make the Cali housing market unsustainable, and the housing affordability issue was predicted many decades ago by planners, but nothing was done in order to sell this unsustainable version of the American dream.

Where the Suburbs End (Published 2021)

A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future.

www.nytimes.com

"Where the Suburbs End
A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future....

 

[K1052]

Interesting article in the Times about zoning changes in Cali, and mentions how too much reliance on SFM really helped make the Cali housing market unsustainable, and the housing affordability issue was predicted many decades ago by planners, but nothing was done in order to sell this unsustainable version of the American dream.

Where the Suburbs End (Published 2021)

A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future.

www.nytimes.com

"Where the Suburbs End
A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future....

California, for its policy faults over the decades, is attempting to fix its problems even if it will take a good while. In particular the SD centric nature of this article is interesting to me since we'll probably be relocating from Austin in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Charmonium]

I was looking up an address so I could use the street view and I find out that it's in this apparently new development. But I can't tell if it's a gated community or Google just hasn't gotten to them yet.

If the former, then it has to be the weirdest I've ever seen. It is immediately obvious that all of the "houses" are just double wides on foundations. Google had some photos and the landscaping is pretty nice. Nothing fancy. A small pond with fountain. Nicely trimmed common area lawns.

But double wides? I don't get it.

 

[jpiniero]

"Where the Suburbs End
A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future....

Wonder if adding an inlaw unit would trigger an full assessment. Which is a big deal there.

If the former, then it has to be the weirdest I've ever seen. It is immediately obvious that all of the "houses" are just double wides on foundations. Google had some photos and the landscaping is pretty nice. Nothing fancy. A small pond with fountain. Nicely trimmed common area lawns.

But double wides? I don't get it.

I've noticed a bunch of those in CA. Stable weather probally makes it an easier sell than in other parts of the country.

 

[K1052]

Wonder if adding an inlaw unit would trigger an full assessment. Which is a big deal there.

Not for the existing home. You end up with a blended assessment.

 

[ultimatebob]

California, for its policy faults over the decades, is attempting to fix its problems even if it will take a good while. In particular the SD centric nature of this article is interesting to me since we'll probably be relocating from Austin in the next 2-3 years.

I can't read the article, because the New York Times is paywalled. Bummer.

That said, there are still huge swaths of California that are still wilderness and farm land. I don't understand why the silicon valley hasn't spread out even more than it already has to meet housing demand. Now that most tech workers are now working from home, so the lousy commute on the 101 really shouldn't be an issue anymore.

 

[K1052]

I can't read the article, because the New York Times is paywalled. Bummer.

That said, there are still huge swaths of California that are still wilderness and farm land. I don't understand why the silicon valley hasn't spread out even more than it already has to meet housing demand. Now that most tech workers are now working from home, so the lousy commute on the 101 really shouldn't be an issue anymore.

The Bay Area is hemmed in by water and mountains so all the easily developable land has pretty much been built on already. Can't go to far up into the hills anymore since there is little property available that isn't state park or enormously risky now with fire where insurance is going to be a problem. The region is out of space to sprawl and has somewhat resisted going up (building taller) which is the only other real option. Traffic has mostly met or exceeded pre-pandemic levels at this point as well so once again distance matters.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Interesting article in the Times about zoning changes in Cali, and mentions how too much reliance on SFM really helped make the Cali housing market unsustainable, and the housing affordability issue was predicted many decades ago by planners, but nothing was done in order to sell this unsustainable version of the American dream.

Where the Suburbs End (Published 2021)

A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future.

www.nytimes.com

"Where the Suburbs End
A single-family home from the 1950s is now a rental complex and a vision of California’s future....

This was being done to properties in southern New England in the 1980's. And those properties were built around the turn of the century.

 

[jpiniero]

The Bay Area is hemmed in by water and mountains so all the easily developable land has pretty much been built on already. Can't go to far up into the hills anymore since there is little property available that isn't state park or enormously risky now with fire where insurance is going to be a problem. The region is out of space to sprawl and has somewhat resisted going up (building taller) which is the only other real option. Traffic has mostly met or exceeded pre-pandemic levels at this point as well so once again distance matters.

Imagine it's mostly NIMBYs but have to imagine it gets pricey dealing with (yes) where you put parking and the earthquake code with density/height.

 

[K1052]

Imagine it's mostly NIMBYs but have to imagine it gets pricey dealing with (yes) where you put parking and the earthquake code with density/height.

Building for seismic code is a marginal increase, it's the zoning that's impossible. All these bay towns also approved millions of square feet of new office buildings over the last few decades with little consideration about where all the new workers would live. Most of them thought it was some other cities concern and not theirs.

 

[Captante]

This was being done to properties in southern New England in the 1980's. And those properties were built around the turn of the century.

I live in a variation of this now .... big old house converted into apartments. Only difference is it was built around 1895 not in the 1950's!

 

[jpiniero]

I live in a variation of this now .... big old house converted into apartments. Only difference is it was built around 1895 not in the 1950's!

I think this is more like building a housing unit in your backyard that you would rent out to somebody.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I can't read the article, because the New York Times is paywalled. Bummer.

That said, there are still huge swaths of California that are still wilderness and farm land. I don't understand why the silicon valley hasn't spread out even more than it already has to meet housing demand. Now that most tech workers are now working from home, so the lousy commute on the 101 really shouldn't be an issue anymore.

I've never understood why these big bucks silicon valley companies didn't just park new offices in podunk nowhere towns to populate them and funnel money in like old school mining towns. Those places would have shops and restaurants firing up overnight, you don't need to start in an established city.

 

[jpiniero]

I've never understood why these big bucks silicon valley companies didn't just park new offices in podunk nowhere towns to populate them and funnel money in like old school mining towns. Those places would have shops and restaurants firing up overnight, you don't need to start in an established city.

They do have offices across the country but it's so important to have the group all in one place. Secondly it's not really a problem for them since employees will make do just to work there because of the stock options. If/When the stock market bubble crashes you could see that change.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

They do have offices across the country but it's so important to have the group all in one place.

Not really, for an IT company. A construction firm I get, but not Netflix.

 

[MrSquished]

I've never understood why these big bucks silicon valley companies didn't just park new offices in podunk nowhere towns to populate them and funnel money in like old school mining towns. Those places would have shops and restaurants firing up overnight, you don't need to start in an established city.

It's really not that easy to just create a city out of nothing - what you propose is not that simple. Also a lot of people do like living near lots of stuff to do, to eat, to explore, to experience - you can't just create a desirable place out of nothing.

Not really, for an IT company. A construction firm I get, but not Netflix.

It's not that simple either. I find it amusing how quickly some people think that because of zoom and screensharing and the internet there is no value in three dimensional land for humans in a work environment. It's really just crazy. There is a lot of value with in person interactions. A mix of WFH and in the office is the future for many jobs.

I mean why socialize in person either like just going to a bar together? Just get on zoom with your friends and everyone crack open a beer or pour a glass of wine and just hang out instead of ever hanging out in three dimensional land.

 

[jpiniero]

Not really, for an IT company. A construction firm I get, but not Netflix.

Just looked at Netflix's Jobs website and they have offices in LA, NYC, Salt Lake City, DC and Toronto. That's just the US and Canada. Saw they even have some remote openings. Most of the engineering jobs I looked at is in Los Gatos, which is basically near San Jose.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's not that simple either. I find it amusing how quickly some people think that because of zoom and screensharing and the internet there is no value in three dimensional land for humans in a work environment. It's really just crazy. There is a lot of value with in person interactions. A mix of WFH and in the office is the future for many jobs.

I mean why socialize in person either like just going to a bar together? Just get on zoom with your friends and everyone crack open a beer or pour a glass of wine and just hang out instead of ever hanging out in three dimensional land.

Until the last three weeks, I've been remote since Feb of 2019. I've had need to be in the office for approximately 3 days in the last 18 months. My productivity went up, stress went down, happiness went up, garden is looking better than ever.

Everyone else's insistence on physical interaction is the bane of my existence. I shouldn't need to be there to prop up other people's psychological requirements.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Just looked at Netflix's Jobs website and they have offices in LA, NYC, Salt Lake City, DC and Toronto. That's just the US and Canada. Saw they even have some remote openings. Most of the engineering jobs I looked at is in Los Gatos, which is basically near San Jose.

Yeah, those are all enormous cities. Why not somewhere small? Like actually small?

 

[MrSquished]

Until the last three weeks, I've been remote since Feb of 2019. I've had need to be in the office for approximately 3 days in the last 18 months. My productivity went up, stress went down, happiness went up, garden is looking better than ever.

Everyone else's insistence on physical interaction is the bane of my existence. I shouldn't need to be there to prop up other people's psychological requirements.

I'm sure some jobs are fine just remote. But to say every job at a company does not benefit from interpersonal interaction is totally silly. It's as silly as someone saying every job should be in the office every day.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, those are all enormous cities. Why not somewhere small? Like actually small?

While some people love little podunk places, and that's great, a lot of people, especially young people, young talent, they want to be near action. Stuff. Nightlife. Culture. It's not rocket science. A lot of people like actually interacting with people.

 

[jpiniero]

Yeah, those are all enormous cities. Why not somewhere small? Like actually small?

Because a lot of these companies also hire lots of foreign workers. Need public transportation for the logistics to work. Your rando small city probably doesn't have one.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm sure some jobs are fine just remote. But to say every job at a company does not benefit from interpersonal interaction is totally silly. It's as silly as someone saying every job should be in the office every day.

Never said it would, I was specifically referencing silicon valley companies, that work entirely off computers. No need for them to be in a major city unless they specifically want to be there. For my career, there's relatively few opportunities outside of major cities despite my job being possibly basically entirely remote. That's changed recently of course, thanks to COVID.

While some people love little podunk places, and that's great, a lot of people, especially young people, young talent, they want to be near action. Stuff. Nightlife. Culture. It's not rocket science. A lot of people like actually interacting with people.

I understand that, still seems weird that nobody even seems to consider getting some of those things into a small town by providing work there. Catch-22, you know? No business moves in because no soul in the town because no people, no people because no work, so the cycle goes.

Because a lot of these companies also hire lots of foreign workers. Need public transportation for the logistics to work. Your rando small city probably doesn't have one.

I'm confused, what do foreign workers and public transportation have to do with anything? They can drive too if I'm not mistaken.

 

[jpiniero]

I'm confused, what do foreign workers and public transportation have to do with anything? They can drive too if I'm not mistaken.

But there's a lot of hoops they have to go through in order to be able to do that. Especially given their stay could be very temporary. It's one less thing for them to worry about coming over here.

 

[MrSquished]

Never said it would, I was specifically referencing silicon valley companies, that work entirely off computers. No need for them to be in a major city unless they specifically want to be there. For my career, there's relatively few opportunities outside of major cities despite my job being possibly basically entirely remote. That's changed recently of course, thanks to COVID.

Yes, I'm also referencing companies/jobs that work behind computers. Think Silicon Valley, think accounting firms, think law firms, think advertising, think investment banking. All done by people at computers. There is no way all those jobs are best done fully remote. People do benefit from three dimensional land.

Also, you aren't going to entice too many young workers to move to a little town with very little amenities and wait for it to be built up over many years. Not all young people want to be near cities with lots of action, but I'd say a majority do. Two of my relatives - one graduated Harvard the other just got a masters at Columbia - they couldn't wait to move into NYC and get the hell out of a real small far out suburban town in western NJ. Even last year when they were working 100% remote they moved right into Manhattan. As they get older that may change, they may start a family, need more space, move out to the burbs, and more young people that like stuff will take their place. It's a pretty cyclical thing.