Man .... those G5s

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Pariah, any reason why you didn't choose the Tyan dual Opteron Mobo (versus the MSI k7D) ?

Because like the dual 2GHz G5, it's not available for sale yet. No price has been announced either which creates a problem when pricing a system.

Any reason why you chose AthlonMP over the Opteron?

No one uses Opterons for a home system. The motherboards are mostly extended ATX which require special cases and non-standard ATX 12V PS's. Most don't have AGP slots, there are no 64bit Windows versions for it, and so forth. They just aren't a good option for home use.

(do you *have* to use the LianLi case?)

I don't get it. Is that rhetorical?

You can buy a dual 2ghz G5, they just haven't started shipping yet.


Lethal

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: fredtam
Can someone tell me what application could use 8gigs of ram or 4 for that matter. They are now shipping and it is an option for$4950.

If the US government wants to create a uberdatabase out of the census results.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: fredtam
Can someone tell me what application could use 8gigs of ram or 4 for that matter. They are now shipping and it is an option for$4950.

If the US government wants to create a uberdatabase out of the census results.

Oh......as long as its useful.


Lethal They are shipping.

 

[Pariah]

The Xeon has PCI-X slots (3)

The 2 64bit 66MHz slots on the MSI board are perfect for the SCSI and Gbit LAN card, with more than enough bandwidth. What else would someone put in one of those slots?

AGP Pro110 slot

Completely worthless to even power users. If you're dropping $1000+ on a rendering board, then the whole price issue is irrelevant.

a superior case and PSU

I don't really care about the case to any significant extent. So long as everything fits in it and it is simple enough to work with, I don't need anything past that. What makes the 450W superior to the Antec TruPower 480W? That's a serious question, I don't know, but the Antec is more than enough for the AMD MP system, so I don't see how it matters one way or the other.

U320 SCSI versus U160

For an extra $40 I could upgrade to U320, but I don't see the point in throwing away $40 on a U320 controller that will only have one drive on it.

and a superior board OEM (Supermicro vs MSI).

Superior in what way? We're not running enterpise servers here. Tyan, Asus, and Giga-byte are also available in the same price range, I went with MSI because it didn't have onboard LAN which I wouldn't need with the addin gigabit LAN.

You can buy a dual 2ghz G5, they just haven't started shipping yet.

Can you get one now? No you can't, so they are not yet available. No one preorders motherboards. By the time the Apples are shipping, the Tyan boards may be available.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: fredtam
Can someone tell me what application could use 8gigs of ram or 4 for that matter. They are now shipping and it is an option for$4950.

If the US government wants to create a uberdatabase out of the census results.

Oh......as long as its useful.


Lethal They are shipping.

The single proc G5's are currently shipping. The dual gig G5's should start shipping before the end of the month.


Lethal

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: fredtam
Can someone tell me what application could use 8gigs of ram or 4 for that matter. They are now shipping and it is an option for$4950.

If the US government wants to create a uberdatabase out of the census results.

Oh......as long as its useful.


Lethal They are shipping.

The single proc G5's are currently shipping. The dual gig G5's should start shipping before the end of the month.


Lethal

1-800-MY-APPLE

They said the Dual G5 started shipping today.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: fredtam
Can someone tell me what application could use 8gigs of ram or 4 for that matter. They are now shipping and it is an option for$4950.

If the US government wants to create a uberdatabase out of the census results.

Oh......as long as its useful.


Lethal They are shipping.

The single proc G5's are currently shipping. The dual gig G5's should start shipping before the end of the month.


Lethal

1-800-MY-APPLE

They said the Dual G5 started shipping today.

Huh. I figured they woulda put that up on apple.com


Lethal

 

[fredtam]

Powermac G The worlds fastest personal computer. Now Shipping.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: fredtam
Powermac G The worlds fastest personal computer. Now Shipping.

CUPERTINO, California?August 18, 2003?Apple® today announced that it has begun shipping the two single processor models of its Power Mac® G5, the world?s fastest personal computer featuring the first 64-bit desktop processor and the industry?s first 1 GHz front-side bus. The dual 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5 will ship late this month, as planned.


I just figured they would have issued a new press release saying the duals were now shipping.


Lethal

 

[Samsonid]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Pariah, any reason why you didn't choose the Tyan dual Opteron Mobo (versus the MSI k7D) ?

Because like the dual 2GHz G5, it's not available for sale yet. No price has been announced either which creates a problem when pricing a system.

Any reason why you chose AthlonMP over the Opteron?

No one uses Opterons for a home system. The motherboards are mostly extended ATX which require special cases and non-standard ATX 12V PS's. Most don't have AGP slots, there are no 64bit Windows versions for it, and so forth. They just aren't a good option for home use.

(do you *have* to use the LianLi case?)

I don't get it. Is that rhetorical?

You are right, it doesn't ship yet, but the price is $489.26 and it will need an EPS12 power supply.
The motherboard is 12X13in and it will fit right into my existing ATX case
Indeed, Windows is not yet optimized for 64 bits (unlike OS-X which has "some" optimization)

--

 

[BoberFett]

samsonid

What is "some optimization"? As far as I know, the only thing about OSX that isn't 32 bit is larger memory support. So please, enlighten me as to what these "optimizations" are? Perhaps you need to take your own advice and not post in this thread. You apear to be stuck in the Nintendo world of "more bits, more better".

If addressing memory past 4 GB is all it takes to considered "64 bit" then Windows has been doing that for years. Win2K Adv Server has supported 8 GB for a while now, and Datacenter supported 32 GB. Win2K has the ability, MS just chose not to release lesser versions of Windows with higher memory support enabled in order to upsell the more expensive products to businesses.

Before you go into your crap about how the G5 is for home use, let's be realistic. Joe User doesn't need 8 GB of RAM to read e-mail. Hell, he doesn't need 1 GB to surf the web.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Pariah

The Xeon has PCI-X slots (3)

The 2 64bit 66MHz slots on the MSI board are perfect for the SCSI and Gbit LAN card, with more than enough bandwidth. What else would someone put in one of those slots?

Completely worthless to even power users. If you're dropping $1000+ on a rendering board, then the whole price issue is irrelevant.

For an extra $40 I could upgrade to U320, but I don't see the point in throwing away $40 on a U320 controller that will only have one drive on it.

Superior in what way? We're not running enterpise servers here. Tyan, Asus, and Giga-byte are also available in the same price range, I went with MSI because it didn't have onboard LAN which I wouldn't need with the addin gigabit LAN.

Then I suppose I could slash the price of the Xeon using "cheaper" parts.

Lian-Li PC-7 -> $96
Antec TruPower 550W -> $125
ATi 9800 Pro -> $389
Tyan S2668AN ATX, Dual Xeon with Gigabit NIC-> $266
2x Xeon 2.8Ghz Retail -> $790
2x 512MB Crucial PC2700 ECC -> $224
Fujitsu MAS3184NP (18GB 15k) -> $187
WD WD2000JB -> $176
Plextor PX-708A (8x DVD+R, 4x DVD-R) -> $260
Audigy 2 Platinum -> $167
Logitech Cordless MX Duo -> $78
Tekram DC-390U3W -> $165
Firewire 800 card -> $70
US Robotics V.92 Modem -> $36
XP Pro -> $143

-> 3172

 

[BoberFett]

dexvx

You can get that Tekram card at Newegg for $80. I just ordered a couple last night so I could put a shiny new Seagate 15K.3 in each of my girlfriends and my computers.

 

[Samsonid]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
samsonid

What is "some optimization"? As far as I know, the only thing about OSX that isn't 32 bit is larger memory support...

Here is a quote relating to OS-X 10.2.7:

"The kernel has been updated to take advantage of memory expansion and the vector libraries and math libraries have been optimized," said Joswiak. "Any application that does dynamic linking to those libraries will get an automatic benefit without having to recompile."

Before you go into your crap about how the G5 is for home use

I never said that !
(Each and every one of your posts is nothing more than a flame-bait).

 

[Samsonid]

I am sure everyone has seen this performance/comparizon test ?

It is also interesting to read this part of the conclusion:

Based on an extrapolation of current P4 results, the 2GHz G5 would lag newly announced 3.2GHz P4 systems in Jet3D scalar floating point performance by about 20%, but this kind of comparison is best deferred until G5-aware compiler tools become available (since a 20% performance gain is well within the potential of compiler optimization).

It is also interesting that *no* dual cpu x86 PCs were used in this comparizon.
Was that for a reason? Do they know something that we don't? or they just didn't have one readily available?

 

[Pariah]

devx, that board doesn't have gigabit LAN. The S2668ANR model does for $298. You're also still missing 512MB of RAM. So the difference is still over $300. There is no way you can make a Xeon system cheaper than an Athlon MP system because everything else created equal, the core components of CPU's and motherboard both cost more on the Intel side. I won't argue that the quality is better on the Intel side because it is, but again, we're supposedly building systems that you can put under your desk and use at home, not corporate servers (why would you put an Audigy 2 Platinum and Radeon 9800 Pro in a server?). For business I would use nothing but Intel. At home, the extra cost doesn't get me anything worth having. The goal was also to get the cost under $2999 which was the cost of the base model dual 2Ghz G5.

BoberFett, that's a great deal on that Tekram card. They're also selling a Tekram U320 card which I didn't know existed, at a cheaper price than the U160 I had listed, so I could still squeeze a U320 controller in and keep the total tag under $3000. Interesting that it has a fan on it. Never thought I would see that.

Final Specs:

Lian-Li PC-7 -> $96
Antec TruPower 480W -> $87
AMD Athlon MP 2800+ x 2 -> $494
MSI K7D Master -> $188
1.5GB Crucial Buffered/Registered (3x512MB) -> $354
ATi 9800 Pro -> $389
Audigy 2 Platinum -> $167
Tekram DC-390U3W -> $80
Fujitsu MAS3184NP (18GB 15k) -> $187
Seagate 7200.7 ST3160021A x 2 (320GB total) -> $262
Plextor PX-708A (8x DVD+R, 4x DVD-R) -> $260
Intel PRO/1000 MT Server Adapter (PCI-X gigabit LAN) -> $102
Firewire 800 card -> $70
US Robotics V.92 Modem -> $36
Logitech Cordless MX Duo -> $78
XP Pro -> $143

Total -> $2993

Was that for a reason? Do they know something that we don't? or they just didn't have one readily available?

He posted somewhere else that he only benchmarked what he had available to him, which is why nothing faster than single P4 2.66GHz system was tested on the Intel side.

Here's the link from Arstechnica:

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=48409524&m=3330955475

"The main goal was to evaluate the G5, and use some of our existing G4 (1GHz and 1.25GHz) and P4 (2GHz and 2.66GHz) systems as reference. I was testing on machines used in my work and comparing to a new system that was the focus of the report. The G4 and P4 machines in my study are 1-2 year old technology, but that's what we have to compare against."

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Of course the Apple looks cleaner than the PC they show. It doesn't have as many components in it, or as many spots to put them.

The Apple has only 1 CD ROM bay/drive, no floppy, no chassis that could hold a floppy, and they hid the hard drive chassis somewhere behind the 'G5' boxes there, which would make me assume that there are only enough mounts for one drive. They don't show cabling, or any PCI cards.

Huzzah advertising.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Samsonid

Originally posted by: BoberFett
samsonid

What is "some optimization"? As far as I know, the only thing about OSX that isn't 32 bit is larger memory support...

Here is a quote relating to OS-X 10.2.7:

"The kernel has been updated to take advantage of memory expansion and the vector libraries and math libraries have been optimized," said Joswiak. "Any application that does dynamic linking to those libraries will get an automatic benefit without having to recompile."

Can you post a link to that quote? I'd like to see it in context. The kernel taking advantage of new instructions doesn't necessarily mean it's 64 bit. It could be using new 32 bit instructions. The quote I saw from Joswiak from a month or two ago said the only thing that was 64 bit was support for 8GB of RAM.

Before you go into your crap about how the G5 is for home use

I never said that !
(Each and every one of your posts is nothing more than a flame-bait).

Sorry, you're right. It was somebody else that said the G5 is for home use, after somebody else brought up the Alpha as the first 64bit CPU.

 

[Samsonid]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Can you post a link to that quote? I'd like to see it in context.

Sure. Here is the rest of the
article

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: NaughtyusMaximus
Of course the Apple looks cleaner than the PC they show. It doesn't have as many components in it, or as many spots to put them.

The Apple has only 1 CD ROM bay/drive, no floppy, no chassis that could hold a floppy, and they hid the hard drive chassis somewhere behind the 'G5' boxes there, which would make me assume that there are only enough mounts for one drive. They don't show cabling, or any PCI cards.

Huzzah advertising.

Two hard drives.
They say that is all you need with the current capacities of drives.

 

[BoberFett]

I thought maybe there'd be more there. That quote really doesn't say much. There are two distinct statements there.

"The kernel has been updated to take advantage of memory expansion"

and

"the vector libraries and math libraries have been optimized"

As of three weeks ago this is what he said: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31995.html

Sounds like the kernel can use 64 bit memory addresses, but that's about it. The kernel will still have to translate 64 bit addresses to 32 bit for other programs, meaning that all programs are still bound by 32 bit limitations. For any single program to use more memory than 32 bit allows, it'll require the rest of the operating system to become 64 bit and any programs that need 64 bit to be recompiled. By that time that's done, the Athlon 64 and Windows 64 will be available.

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: NaughtyusMaximus
Of course the Apple looks cleaner than the PC they show. It doesn't have as many components in it, or as many spots to put them.

The Apple has only 1 CD ROM bay/drive, no floppy, no chassis that could hold a floppy, and they hid the hard drive chassis somewhere behind the 'G5' boxes there, which would make me assume that there are only enough mounts for one drive. They don't show cabling, or any PCI cards.

Huzzah advertising.

Good points heh i wasn't even lookin at that, I just assumed it was a slobs PC, lol some PC brands will REALLY organize stuff insanly well.

http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/

heh some actual proof from a mac user that they becnhmarks arn't right, heh see that dual AMD Opitron shine over teh Xeons, but most importanly relating to this post is that the P4 and AMD Athlon XP, runnin as single CPU's surpass the dual G4 configuration.

As for macs being more stable than a PC, well, in my opinion, OS9 was anything but stable, OSX made monumental improvments on it, although also is a bit slower, and in all truth, speed wise, PC's just feel flat out much more zippy when performing everyday tasks like web browsing. (in comparision to a high end G4 old but still seemed like a 3-4 year old PC in IE load times and such).

I'm not trying to flame mac, but simply show that they are making false claims accross the board, in marketing attempts. Another thing, PC always seems to automatically=windows in this discussion what about poor little linux? lol

 

[GonzoDaGr8]

no chassis that could hold a floppy,

Apple did away with them infernal p.o.s.-es a long time ago. No need for them, even with PC's(Look at DELL's). If you reallllly need a floppy, externals are pretty cheap.

and they hid the hard drive chassis somewhere behind the 'G5' boxes there, which would make me assume that there are only enough mounts for one drive.

The hard drives are actually up in the upper right hand corner and holds up to two drives. Those "G5 boxes" are the heatsinks for the procs.

 

[walk2]

I agree benchmarks are silly. You can find 10 benchmarks that will show the PC faster and 10 that show the G5 faster. But that article makes far too many bad assumptions like "FP is hardly used" and "most programs don't use MP". Sure if you are going to run Office and Quicken you should get the single processer P4, but we assume that anyone buying a MP workstation like a G5 or Xeon will be using it for 3D, CAD, rendering, etc...

Let's face it, hype is hype, of course Dell is going to say the PC is faster and Apple is going to say the Mac is faster - the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Fact is the PPC is a far superior cpu to any x86 and that is not up for debate. Just look at the speeds, the fact we are even suggesting the 2ghz PPC keeps pace with the 3+ghz x86 is a big clue.

As for these systems you all are assembling to compare to the G5 - please do not bother. Sure you can cobble together a bunch of Tawainese parts to make a FrankenPC, you can't compare a monster like that to the G5 which is elegant. Only thing I can say here is that we will probably see the PC companies copy Apple like they did with the iMac and come out with their own cases/systems that resemble the G5, so that's a good thing really.

 

[sinthon]

I dont like G5's.