Man, WTF is wrong with NASA

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gscone

Senior member
Nov 24, 2004
489
0
71
Originally posted by: EmperorIQ
are you an engineer?

One of the most difficult thing nowadays, for engineers, is the public's lack of appreciation for what has been done. The majority of society do not know the hard work put into it, and they just listen to what the media says:

media: NASA screwed up, and they spent 100 billion dollars
society: OMG they suck.


Well said..


 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
2
0
They build ships, send people into space, dock with moving satellites, and return them home.

They can make satellites that can orbit planets and crash into comets millions of miles away.

How does this not sink in as amazing to everyone else?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
You have understand what NASA is. What it is NOT is a purely scientific organization. It is in fact a political football. Everything is subject to the whim of elected officials whose collective avarice index is off the scale. If it can be used, they will use it. So NASA gets one mandate from one Congress, from another administration, from yet another Congress...

In the meantime the Shuttle gets built because it meets certain political objectives. The scientists and engineers then have to make an idiots dream fly. WTF do you expect them to do?

Do you think that Rutan is REALLY that much smarter than the brains at NASA? If he had to work under their constraints, he'd be still trying to figure out how to get the toilet paper on the holder.

What SHOULD happen is that the engineers and scientists get together and determine what can be done 10 or 20 years out, fire the entire politically appointed administration and replace them with representatives selected by the brains and sends them to congress selects from the menu, fully funds it or not, then gets the hell out of the way.

BTW, this will never happen.
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Is it really that hard to make a working space shuttle...

Yea, actually it is. It's incredibly difficult, and at our current level of technology, the margin of error is incredibly slim. The space shuttle is one of the most complicated machines ever built.

What exactly is your background that you feel qualified to make statements like this? Have your ever been involved in the space program? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
 

cerebusPu

Diamond Member
May 27, 2000
4,008
0
0
almost all development and maintaence work is contracted out now.

- the shuttle fuel tanks (and the disentegrating foam on them) are made by Lockheed.
- the mars polar lander (crashed due to english/metric error) was developed by Lockheed.
- the genesis aircraft that was suppose capture some solar dust and parachute down, did not deploy its parachute because a lockheed engineer installed the accelerometer backwards.

this is what my lockheed friends tell me.
 

Quixfire

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2001
6,892
0
0
Originally posted by: BDawg
They build ships, send people into space, dock with moving satellites, and return them home.

They can make satellites that can orbit planets and crash into comets millions of miles away.

How does this not sink in as amazing to everyone else?
It's as amazing as seening Pamla Anderson's boobs on the internet because most of the posters here are more worried about running out of lotion or kleenx. :disgust:

 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: rh71
Originally posted by: Toasthead
Originally posted by: werk
Their sh1t is OLD.

seriously. Those shuttles are freeaking liek 20 years old...damn lets build some new ones already
old people = old ideas. What's the ratio of old people to young people when you see their live feeds ?

Those aren't exactly entry level jobs you're seeing on the live feeds. There are plenty of young people working space programs. In fact, one of the big problems facing the industry are a lack of qualified young people entering the work force. I know the Air Force is very worried about this, I can't imagine that NASA isn't as well.

Computers are "sexier" somehow - nobody wants to be a rocket scientist anymore.
 

MasterAndCommander

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2004
3,656
0
71
They are not incompetent.
1. Going into space is not a trivial matter. Risks are part of the game.
2. The Space Shuttle is the most complex vehicle yet devised by man.
3. The Shuttle was designed in the 60's, built in the 70's, tested in the 80's - a replacement is needed. The X-30 National Aerospace Plane was to be it but was cancelled.
 

Nimloth

Senior member
Mar 5, 2001
808
0
76
cold war is over and so is the space race

there is no more incentive for rapid progress
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Congress stripping the budget away from NASA, effectively reducing the employment roles by over 70%,
and still expecting the work load to be accomplished by only one third of the previous workforce hasn't helped.

The majority of the work still gets put out on bid to the lowest bidder, and they will cut corners to maximize profit.

"Sucess Managment' is a poor substitute for taking the time with the right budget to get it done right.

Remember that the Challenger was launched because the Military was hung up on meeting a 'Schedule',
and 'Sucess Managment' OKed the launch even after the company (Thiokol) that made the boosters refused to sign off on launch safety.
It was outside the envelope of the seal design, there was a known anomaly in the mating of that particular field joint,
and it was known that weather conditions were outside of the thermal restriction envelope.

They launched anyway - under pressure.

'Sucess Managment' reared it's ugly head again with the Columbia. Engineers went to Managment with data about a strike to the vehicle,
seen on TV monitors, and the evaluation was given to a team of new green engineers (on a first job) to evaluate with a 'spread sheet' -
they didn't even get real time data, just a copy of "What If = This Might Happen" to compile a 'Yes' answer for managment.
The request for photograhpy and imaging was denied by managment as not worthy of persuing, they already had a 'Yes'.

There is no budget to develop a replacement for the shuttle, there are some old derivative designs available,
but nothing in the pipeline to replace wah we have with a sutable replacement.
From day one to build a new system would take 10 years before we would ready to launch a new vehicle.

Nothing before 2015 is do-able unless we make another one of what we have, and even that would take at least 5 years to accomplish.

The Shuttle was an old design - even when it was brand new, and bugetary constraints made it worse than it should have been -
compromised by the budget into something that NASA didn't want to begin with, a space truck for the Military.

 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: cerebusPu
almost all development and maintaence work is contracted out now.

- the shuttle fuel tanks (and the disentegrating foam on them) are made by Lockheed.
- the mars polar lander (crashed due to english/metric error) was developed by Lockheed.
- the genesis aircraft that was suppose capture some solar dust and parachute down, did not deploy its parachute because a lockheed engineer installed the accelerometer backwards.

this is what my lockheed friends tell me.

The government builds very little itself. They primarily set the requirements, manage and oversee. Everything is actually designed & built by contractors.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
The Space shuttle next to the Nuclear attack sub is the most complex machine man has ever made....


AUsm


 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Originally posted by: junkerman123
Give me a 100 billion dollar budget and a pool of 100 experienced, well-trained genius scientists and yes, I believe I could.

Why not just give you God and Jesus instead? Geezz....
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,904
2,141
126
Originally posted by: junkerman123
ON A 143214543 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET, plus the experience of having launched it before like 50 times? WTF is wrong here? Are people really that incompetent?

This is ridiculous.

/rant

You do know that the space shuttle has over 2.5 MILLION parts. It would be hard to keep all those in order no matter HOW much you spend.
 

Journer

Banned
Jun 30, 2005
4,355
0
0
Originally posted by: junkerman123
ON A 143214543 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET, plus the experience of having launched it before like 50 times? WTF is wrong here? Are people really that incompetent?

This is ridiculous.

/rant

i'd like to see you and your team of asswits build something that can go into space
 

Mayfriday0529

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2003
7,187
0
71
Originally posted by: junkerman123
ON A 143214543 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET, plus the experience of having launched it before like 50 times? WTF is wrong here? Are people really that incompetent?

This is ridiculous.

/rant


They are going into space, stuff will happen... i'm sure they did their best and now they will go at it again.

 

exilera

Senior member
Apr 12, 2005
940
0
0
Originally posted by: kaizersose
i dont think you understand how difficult the job they have to do
-lift a 4.5 million pound machine off the ground
-accellerate it to 17,000 mph to enter orbit
-slow from 17,000 mph to a few hundred mph in the course of a few minutes
-it has to carry people so you cant have any f-ups and you cant really test it, so every system on board has to have multiple redundancies and be tested/proven waaayy beyond mission expectations.

summary: it's a real b1tch


Yes, and the OP is complaining about a damn piece of foam falling off. What a damn fvcktard.
 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
2
0
Originally posted by: Ausm
The Space shuttle next to the Nuclear attack sub is the most complex machine man has ever made....


AUsm

I think the scary thing is that your cell phone has more processing power than at least the original space shuttle computers.

 

exilera

Senior member
Apr 12, 2005
940
0
0
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
I Nominate the OP for Dumbass of the Week!

do I hear a second?

Seconded, or thirded, or where ever I am in the long line of people who agree the OP is a dumbass.
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
8,263
0
0
if i'd ruled the world...

OP will be on bread and water, while nasa gets their unlimited budget
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
I think the biggest issue right now is the (remaining) shuttles are older than a good portion of the members here.

It's a 20+ year old craft based on even older technology.

People are expecting way too much of them.

Could we design & build better? Sure, but it'll take time & money.

Right now they're all we have.

Viper GTS
 
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