Mandatory "gun owner" insurance

[NoStateofMind]

Read an article the other day that there are several states considering liability insurance for gun owners. On the surface this sounds like a possible practical solution. When digging deeper we find thats not the case.

The Good:

-Provides incentive for responsible gun ownership

-Provides for attorney fees if gun owner kills someone under self defense

The Bad:

-Criminals don't care about insurance

-The poor may not be able to afford insurance effectively nullifying their constitutional right

link

Your thoughts?

 

[werepossum]

Sounds to me like the camel getting its nose under the tent. Should liability insurance be legally required the government would be free to mandate so much cost that only the truly wealthy could afford to be armed, effectively negating the Second Amendment with plausible deniability. Legal gun ownership by law-abiding citizens has nowhere near the damage rate of, say, automobiles and should not be treated as such. And as you say, criminals would be unaffected.

A corollary would be the First Amendment. What if we had to take out a $1,000,000 libel/slander insurance before being allowed to offer an opinion on a politician or athlete?

 

[jackstar7]

While I'm no fan of insurance companies, the plain reality is that owning a gun makes injury or death from a gun significantly more likely to the individual and their family. Article here. And there are costs that would likely be passed on to society at large due to those outcomes. It seems responsible for gun owners to all contribute to a pool to cover those costs.

I do not see insurance as an infringement on the right to own a gun, but I admit to not having interest in owning one either, so I expect my opinion will be discounted or outright ignored.

 

[Genx87]

How about voting insurance? Voting has produced policies that spread far more misery and death than a gun.

 

[JEDIYoda]

How about voting insurance? Voting has produced policies that spread far more misery and death than a gun.

Are you taking your meds??

 

[Mean MrMustard]

How about voting insurance? Voting has produced policies that spread far more misery and death than a gun.

/thread

 

[SparkyJJO]

No. That's a terrible idea.

 

[imagoon]

While I'm no fan of insurance companies, the plain reality is that owning a gun makes injury or death from a gun significantly more likely to the individual and their family. Article here. And there are costs that would likely be passed on to society at large due to those outcomes. It seems responsible for gun owners to all contribute to a pool to cover those costs.

I do not see insurance as an infringement on the right to own a gun, but I admit to not having interest in owning one either, so I expect my opinion will be discounted or outright ignored.

Can you define "significant" because I read the document and most of the numbers that show 2.5 times more likely and 11 time more likely is 139 / 59 out of 25 million and 27 million. I take as: 2010 we made 0.01 dollars in profit. 2011 we made 0.05 dollars profit. 500% increase in profit but no one would consider 4 pennies a significant increase.
I mean I look at it like this. Per the doc there was an average of 680 unintentional gun deaths during the years discussed in the entire country. Well there were 973 unintentional deaths on the IL tollway system (not all highways or accidents.) The reverse is true in the intentional side since intentional automotive deaths around only registered around 100 per year however this article is not really looking at intentional deaths so I am not sure if it is relevant.

 

[Agent11]

How would it promote responsible gun ownership? I call bs.

 

[jackstar7]

Just quoting the article here: "In other words, almost 20 people a day are shot unintentionally but do not die."

Injuries are, to me, a more significant factor in the insurance aspect.

 

[Fenixgoon]

does car insurance promote safe and responsible driving? no.

you don't need insurance for a car if you drive it on private property. you only need it if you go on public roads.

IMO, training required before issuance of a CCW permit. which i think is already in place for many (most/all?) states.

 

[Brovane]

I could maybe see insurance for carrying a gun as part of the requirements for a CCW permit.

 

[pcgeek11]

Driving a car is a privilege. Owning a gun is a right. The two do not compare. Making it a requirement to own a gun to have very expensive insurance IS infringing upon our rights as provided in the US Constitution.

I find it funny that some of the same people that raise hell about people getting a Voter ID card imposes an enormous obstruction to voting, but think this insurance crap is just fine.

Crazy.

 

[shortylickens]

No one wants to believe this but guns cause considerably less damage than cars in America. Cost in human life, and cost in property damage.
You dont need insurance for them.

 

[Newbian]

No one wants to believe this but guns cause considerably less damage than cars in America. Cost in human life, and cost in property damage.
You dont need insurance for them.

It's close in human live and they predict by 2015 more deaths will be from guns then cars.

In 2010 the fatalities by cars were 32,885 and the total deaths from guns were 30,470.

As cars get safer guns get deadlier.

 

[monovillage]

Just quoting the article here: "In other words, almost 20 people a day are shot unintentionally but do not die."

Injuries are, to me, a more significant factor in the insurance aspect.

Just quoting that stupid article "On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms "

Yep, you break into a house and the homeowner points a 12 gauge at your guts there's certainly no credible evidence of it's deterrence effect.

Great article, I can see when anti-gun nuts can depend on such astute scientific research.

 

[Fenixgoon]

It's close in human live and they predict by 2015 more deaths will be from guns then cars.

In 2010 the fatalities by cars were 32,885 and the total deaths from guns were 30,470.

As cars get safer guns get deadlier.

over half of gun deaths are suicides. As far as firearm homicides, they've been dropping for over 20 years.

The only reason cars are getting safer is because they are being designed to be safer and more idiot proof. The people driving them are still by and large idiots.

 

[shortylickens]

It's close in human live and they predict by 2015 more deaths will be from guns then cars.

In 2010 the fatalities by cars were 32,885 and the total deaths from guns were 30,470.

As cars get safer guns get deadlier.

As cars get safer people act dumber in them. Thats something you learn in your second or third psychology class.

And guns are most definitely not getting deadlier. Thats the dumbest thing I've heard in P&N today.

Of course its only 9:30....

 

[Newbian]

As cars get safer people act dumber in them. Thats something you learn in your second or third psychology class.

And guns are most definitely not getting deadlier. Thats the dumbest thing I've heard in P&N today.

Of course its only 9:30....

So guns haven't advanced to be better at what they do?

What kind of guns are you buying?

 

[NesuD]

2/3rds of all gun related deaths are suicides. Pretty sure most of those would still occur regardless of availability of a gun or not. Discounting those deaths from the debate as I think we should significantly changes the auto related deaths vs gun related deaths convergence picture. Makes the whole gun insurance argument look pretty ludicrous.

 

[NoStateofMind]

does car insurance promote safe and responsible driving? no.

IDK about that. After my speeding ticket hits my insurance and my premium increases (I'm hoping not) then I surely will watch my speed a bit more.

you don't need insurance for a car if you drive it on private property. you only need it if you go on public roads.

I can see an argument developing out of this one. If I wanted gun control my argument would be that you will not need insurance if you keep your gun at home. You take it outside and are stopped you better have an insurance card. I really should keep my mouth shut

IMO, training required before issuance of a CCW permit. which i think is already in place for many (most/all?) states.

That's where Gun control starts and ends IMO.

Driving a car is a privilege. Owning a gun is a right. The two do not compare. Making it a requirement to own a gun to have very expensive insurance IS infringing upon our rights as provided in the US Constitution.

I find it funny that some of the same people that raise hell about people getting a Voter ID card imposes an enormous obstruction to voting, but think this insurance crap is just fine.

Crazy.

LMFAO! Bingo! You win.

 

[ivwshane]

Driving a car is a privilege. Owning a gun is a right. The two do not compare. Making it a requirement to own a gun to have very expensive insurance IS infringing upon our rights as provided in the US Constitution.

I find it funny that some of the same people that raise hell about people getting a Voter ID card imposes an enormous obstruction to voting, but think this insurance crap is just fine.

Crazy.

Rights can be restricted, freedom of speech has restrictions, voting has restrictions, and guns have restrictions. The difference between those rights are the types of restrictions allowed and voting has quite a few restrictions on how that right can be restricted. The requiring of an ID to vote isn't the problem, it's having to pay for an ID that is the issue. Paying for something in order to vote is considered a poll tax and that is specifically forbidden by the constitution, there is no equivalent rule for bearing arms nor is there an equivlent rule for freedom of speech.


Making it harder/more expensive to own guns is no different than the republicans making it harder to have abortions.

 

[Doppel]

no

 

[Puddle Jumper]

So guns haven't advanced to be better at what they do?

What kind of guns are you buying?

What new more deadly gun has been released for civilians in the last 10 years?

I was at the range yesterday and the most powerful gun anyone was shooting was a 70 year old Mosin Nagant that was designed in the late 1800's.

 

[umbrella39]

I find it funny that some of the same people that raise hell about people getting a Voter ID card imposes an enormous obstruction to voting, but think this insurance crap is just fine.

Crazy.

Uh... yeah. I agree. Odd comparison.