Manny Ramirez to LA Dodgers

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

And Ramirez can carry a team while Bay can not. Also, look at my post above. Runners in scoring position, Ramirez excels while Bay does not. Now, put him in a pennant race with the pressure of playing in Boston and we'll see if Bay gets better or worse. We already know that the players around Bay in the line-up will not get the protection that Ramirez offered them. Then if they do get into the playoffs, we know that Ramirez has batted .400+ the last two WS runs.

Ramirez actually excelled at playing LF at Fenway along the Green Monster. It'll take Bay a long time to match Ramirez's prowess there. And Manny quit on the Sox in one game against NY. He's still played more games than any other Sox player besides Pedroia.

Bay has been bad so far this season with RISP, but his career numbers are much better. That isn't an excuse, but just a hope that this season is an outlier. Ortiz stands to lose his backup if the lineup stays the same, but I think Tito will slot Drew in the three hole for now simply because he looked so comfortable there while Ortiz was out and slide Ortiz down to the four. Bay has some serious power, which should only get better hitting in Fenway versus Pittsburgh. I don't think he'll have much trouble protecting Ortiz.

Ramirez didn't "excel" at playing LF. Sorry. He was better than awful because he had such a small area to cover, but he wasn't an excellent defender by any measurable metric. Bay is a better defender, period.

Finally, Manny was ready to pull another 2006 and like I said in my previous post Jason Bay is better than an unhappy Manny Ramirez. What you seem to be asking for is the Red Sox to find another HoF candidate to replace Manny. That isn't happening and the Red Sox took the situation and made the absolute best of it.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

To compare Bay to Ramirez, even at this late point in his career, is insane. Granted, Bay has always had talent and could turn into a 40-HR guy, but I'm not banking on that, not when he's never experienced the pressure bigger cities have to offer (even in Pittsburgh, as others have mentioned, his numbers in close situations and with RISP have been pitiful this year). David Ortiz' bat will suffer, and I frankly don't see the Sox making the playoffs this year unless the bullpen (which management did nothing to improve, by the way) turns it around. Yes, Manny is entering the twilight of his career, but I think it's obvious he has more in the tank given his performance over the last month.

Even with all that's gone on, Manny has played more games with the Sox this season than everyone but Dustin Pedroia. He was starting to turn things around and, let's face it, his impact on the Sox' recent struggles has been grossly exaggerated.

The Red Sox are paying for both Bay's and Ramirez's contracts, so I fail to understand the 'Bay is cheaper' argument unless you mean in future seasons, in which case it's probably true. I wouldn't expect to pay more for a lesser talent.

So the Red Sox should have hung on to Manny? What options did they have here? It's like your blaming them for moving him. I loved having Manny in Boston, but there was no way he could return to the team after the stuff he said Wednesday night. Given that situation, the Red Sox spun it into a surprising positive.

Bay isn't a HoF caliber player, but he's a top-10 player at his position. Nobody should be expecting him to come in and hit .320 with 21 HR and 80 RBI over the next two months. We should be expecting him to come in and put up really solid numbers and that the Red Sox will do their best with what they have. Like I said, the situation was terrible and Boston's hand was pretty much forced.

edit: Just to be clear, I don't believe that Jason Bay will be Manny Ramirez or anything silly like that, I just think that people are being way too critical of this deal given the circumstances.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

And Ramirez can carry a team while Bay can not. Also, look at my post above. Runners in scoring position, Ramirez excels while Bay does not. Now, put him in a pennant race with the pressure of playing in Boston and we'll see if Bay gets better or worse. We already know that the players around Bay in the line-up will not get the protection that Ramirez offered them. Then if they do get into the playoffs, we know that Ramirez has batted .400+ the last two WS runs.

Ramirez actually excelled at playing LF at Fenway along the Green Monster. It'll take Bay a long time to match Ramirez's prowess there. And Manny quit on the Sox in one game against NY. He's still played more games than any other Sox player besides Pedroia.

Bay has been bad so far this season with RISP, but his career numbers are much better. That isn't an excuse, but just a hope that this season is an outlier. Ortiz stands to lose his backup if the lineup stays the same, but I think Tito will slot Drew in the three hole for now simply because he looked so comfortable there while Ortiz was out and slide Ortiz down to the four. Bay has some serious power, which should only get better hitting in Fenway versus Pittsburgh. I don't think he'll have much trouble protecting Ortiz.

Ramirez didn't "excel" at playing LF. Sorry. He was better than awful because he had such a small area to cover, but he wasn't an excellent defender by any measurable metric. Bay is a better defender, period.

Finally, Manny was ready to pull another 2006 and like I said in my previous post Jason Bay is better than an unhappy Manny Ramirez. What you seem to be asking for is the Red Sox to find another HoF candidate to replace Manny. That isn't happening and the Red Sox took the situation and made the absolute best of it.

Drew will not go to the third spot. Ortiz will remain in the 3rd spot with Bay batting fourth. Francona will not put back-to-back lefties in the middle of the order and Drew was only good in the third hole b/c Ramirez was behind. Look at how Drew is playing now without Ramirez behind him.

And Ramirez did excel playing the Green Monster but was just an average OF outside of Fenway. Bay may be an upgrade defensively overall but not in Fenway.

The Sox needed bullpen help and didn't get it. Sadly, I don't see them making the playoffs now.

Being a contract year, Ramirez was not going to hang it up if he wasn't traded.

 

[poncherelli2]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

To compare Bay to Ramirez, even at this late point in his career, is insane. Granted, Bay has always had talent and could turn into a 40-HR guy, but I'm not banking on that, not when he's never experienced the pressure bigger cities have to offer (even in Pittsburgh, as others have mentioned, his numbers in close situations and with RISP have been pitiful this year). David Ortiz' bat will suffer, and I frankly don't see the Sox making the playoffs this year unless the bullpen (which management did nothing to improve, by the way) turns it around. Yes, Manny is entering the twilight of his career, but I think it's obvious he has more in the tank given his performance over the last month.

Even with all that's gone on, Manny has played more games with the Sox this season than everyone but Dustin Pedroia. He was starting to turn things around and, let's face it, his impact on the Sox' recent struggles has been grossly exaggerated.

The Red Sox are paying for both Bay's and Ramirez's contracts, so I fail to understand the 'Bay is cheaper' argument unless you mean in future seasons, in which case it's probably true. I wouldn't expect to pay more for a lesser talent.

I think the "Bay is cheaper" argument is for next year where picking up Manny's option would cost $20MM. I don't think there will be a huge drop-off from Manny to Bay, I think the sox got hosed because they gave up a solid OF in Moss who could have instead been parlayed into a BP arm and they gave up Hanson, who, despite being terrible thus far, still has some good upside. Manny is also a type-A FA, so the Dodgers get the 2 draft picks next year (although Bay will most likely be type-A after the '09 season, I guess).

That said, the sox were kinda backed into a corner and didn't have a lot of room to maneuver. If Manny decided his knees hurt everytime they face a hard throwing starter (2x Joba, 2x King Felix, Volquez, Verlander...), what were they going to do? I know Manny was doing it because he can't hit the good fastball anymore and wants to keep his numbers up going into free agency, but thats tough on the rest of the team.

 

[poncherelli2]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

And Ramirez can carry a team while Bay can not. Also, look at my post above. Runners in scoring position, Ramirez excels while Bay does not. Now, put him in a pennant race with the pressure of playing in Boston and we'll see if Bay gets better or worse. We already know that the players around Bay in the line-up will not get the protection that Ramirez offered them. Then if they do get into the playoffs, we know that Ramirez has batted .400+ the last two WS runs.

Ramirez actually excelled at playing LF at Fenway along the Green Monster. It'll take Bay a long time to match Ramirez's prowess there. And Manny quit on the Sox in one game against NY. He's still played more games than any other Sox player besides Pedroia.

Bay has been bad so far this season with RISP, but his career numbers are much better. That isn't an excuse, but just a hope that this season is an outlier. Ortiz stands to lose his backup if the lineup stays the same, but I think Tito will slot Drew in the three hole for now simply because he looked so comfortable there while Ortiz was out and slide Ortiz down to the four. Bay has some serious power, which should only get better hitting in Fenway versus Pittsburgh. I don't think he'll have much trouble protecting Ortiz.

Ramirez didn't "excel" at playing LF. Sorry. He was better than awful because he had such a small area to cover, but he wasn't an excellent defender by any measurable metric. Bay is a better defender, period.

Finally, Manny was ready to pull another 2006 and like I said in my previous post Jason Bay is better than an unhappy Manny Ramirez. What you seem to be asking for is the Red Sox to find another HoF candidate to replace Manny. That isn't happening and the Red Sox took the situation and made the absolute best of it.

Drew will not go to the third spot. Ortiz will remain in the 3rd spot with Bay batting fourth. Francona will not put back-to-back lefties in the middle of the order and Drew was only good in the third hole b/c Ramirez was behind. Look at how Drew is playing now without Ramirez behind him.

And Ramirez did excel playing the Green Monster but was just an average OF outside of Fenway. Bay may be an upgrade defensively overall but not in Fenway.

The Sox needed bullpen help and didn't get it. Sadly, I don't see them making the playoffs now.

Being a contract year, Ramirez was not going to hang it up if he wasn't traded.

He wasn't going to hang it up, but he would conveniently sit out the tough ones to keep his numbers up

EDIT: This is from earlier in the year, but it shows whats going on with Manny and the tough FBs - Manny

 

[NYHoustonman]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

To compare Bay to Ramirez, even at this late point in his career, is insane. Granted, Bay has always had talent and could turn into a 40-HR guy, but I'm not banking on that, not when he's never experienced the pressure bigger cities have to offer (even in Pittsburgh, as others have mentioned, his numbers in close situations and with RISP have been pitiful this year). David Ortiz' bat will suffer, and I frankly don't see the Sox making the playoffs this year unless the bullpen (which management did nothing to improve, by the way) turns it around. Yes, Manny is entering the twilight of his career, but I think it's obvious he has more in the tank given his performance over the last month.

Even with all that's gone on, Manny has played more games with the Sox this season than everyone but Dustin Pedroia. He was starting to turn things around and, let's face it, his impact on the Sox' recent struggles has been grossly exaggerated.

The Red Sox are paying for both Bay's and Ramirez's contracts, so I fail to understand the 'Bay is cheaper' argument unless you mean in future seasons, in which case it's probably true. I wouldn't expect to pay more for a lesser talent.

So the Red Sox should have hung on to Manny? What options did they have here? It's like your blaming them for moving him. I loved having Manny in Boston, but there was no way he could return to the team after the stuff he said Wednesday night. Given that situation, the Red Sox spun it into a surprising positive.

Bay isn't a HoF caliber player, but he's a top-10 player at his position. Nobody should be expecting him to come in and hit .320 with 21 HR and 80 RBI over the next two months. We should be expecting him to come in and put up really solid numbers and that the Red Sox will do their best with what they have. Like I said, the situation was terrible and Boston's hand was pretty much forced.

No doubt it's a tough situation, and I feel like it's partly due to the front office allowing this stuff to go on rather than putting their metaphorical foot down earlier. Manny has been a complete ass. But I refuse to believe that things couldn't have been worked out. Manny (or someone close to him, at least) knows that if he's to make the kind of money he's looking for, he needs to play and put up the kind of numbers everyone expects from him. If he dogs it the rest of the way or sits out frequently it'll be clear to every other team in the league that he's not worth spending money on. I sincerely doubt that his pride would have allowed him to sacrifice his own numbers, and intentional or no, the Sox do better when he produces.

What management did was, to me, the 'easy' way out. They gave up way too much and I'd be surprised to see the Sox in the playoffs this year. I'm not saying Manny had no fault here or that this was an easy decision to make, but I envision this being the kind of thing where Theo thinks things through tomorrow morning and realizes that he probably should have waited. We'll probably never know exactly what went on, or what would have happened, but this is how I see things.

Side note, Peter Gammons' recent rants on the subject have made me lose a lot of respect for him. He's always been positive regarding Manny, but suddenly he has nothing but negative things to say, even about things that have happened in the past. If things were really this bad for this long (Francona losing sleep over what he's had to allow Manny to do? Give me a break...), why wasn't anything said about it?
It seems almost comically obvious that he's towing the company line, so to speak, and trying to vilify Manny to make Sox management's move look better to the public. It's pathetic.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: poncherelli2

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

And Ramirez can carry a team while Bay can not. Also, look at my post above. Runners in scoring position, Ramirez excels while Bay does not. Now, put him in a pennant race with the pressure of playing in Boston and we'll see if Bay gets better or worse. We already know that the players around Bay in the line-up will not get the protection that Ramirez offered them. Then if they do get into the playoffs, we know that Ramirez has batted .400+ the last two WS runs.

Ramirez actually excelled at playing LF at Fenway along the Green Monster. It'll take Bay a long time to match Ramirez's prowess there. And Manny quit on the Sox in one game against NY. He's still played more games than any other Sox player besides Pedroia.

Bay has been bad so far this season with RISP, but his career numbers are much better. That isn't an excuse, but just a hope that this season is an outlier. Ortiz stands to lose his backup if the lineup stays the same, but I think Tito will slot Drew in the three hole for now simply because he looked so comfortable there while Ortiz was out and slide Ortiz down to the four. Bay has some serious power, which should only get better hitting in Fenway versus Pittsburgh. I don't think he'll have much trouble protecting Ortiz.

Ramirez didn't "excel" at playing LF. Sorry. He was better than awful because he had such a small area to cover, but he wasn't an excellent defender by any measurable metric. Bay is a better defender, period.

Finally, Manny was ready to pull another 2006 and like I said in my previous post Jason Bay is better than an unhappy Manny Ramirez. What you seem to be asking for is the Red Sox to find another HoF candidate to replace Manny. That isn't happening and the Red Sox took the situation and made the absolute best of it.

Drew will not go to the third spot. Ortiz will remain in the 3rd spot with Bay batting fourth. Francona will not put back-to-back lefties in the middle of the order and Drew was only good in the third hole b/c Ramirez was behind. Look at how Drew is playing now without Ramirez behind him.

And Ramirez did excel playing the Green Monster but was just an average OF outside of Fenway. Bay may be an upgrade defensively overall but not in Fenway.

The Sox needed bullpen help and didn't get it. Sadly, I don't see them making the playoffs now.

Being a contract year, Ramirez was not going to hang it up if he wasn't traded.

He wasn't going to hang it up, but he would conveniently sit out the tough ones to keep his numbers up

EDIT: This is from earlier in the year, but it shows whats going on with Manny and the tough FBs - Manny

Interesting article but it doesn't factor in that Ramirez hasn't had the guys on base in front of him like he has in the past. With less runners on base for him, the less fastballs he'll see.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Interesting article but it doesn't factor in that Ramirez hasn't had the guys on base in front of him like he has in the past. With less runners on base for him, the less fastballs he'll see.

The consensus is that Manny can't get around on fastballs like he could two or three years ago. Check out some of the pitch f/x data. He's been thrown a good number of them and turned a lot of them into outs.

 

[poncherelli2]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Interesting article but it doesn't factor in that Ramirez hasn't had the guys on base in front of him like he has in the past. With less runners on base for him, the less fastballs he'll see.

The consensus is that Manny can't get around on fastballs like he could two or three years ago. Check out some of the pitch f/x data. He's been thrown a good number of them and turned a lot of them into outs.

His GB% has also trended up for the second year in a row, contributing to more GIDP, and suggesting he's having trouble generating the power to lift the pitches like he used to,

 

[classy]

So far Bay is looking good for the Red Sox and Manny did his thing last night as well.

 

[TangoJuliet]

I'm sending this via the free wifi from AT&T park. Manny just grounded out to 3rd. Btw it's august and it's freezing.

 

[BUTCH1]

Interesting article in today's Globe sports, seems the commissioners office is looking into just how the trade
went down and also the report that Scott Boras (AKA the prince of darkness) called the Sox brass and said that
Manny would play nice for the rest of the season if the Sox would drop the option for the next 2 years. Deal was
done by then but Boras would not get a cent as Manny's agent if he stayed with the sox, so he was motivated to somehow
force a trade. Some are thinking he instructed Manny to tank it so the Sox HAD to trade him to keep harmony on the club.

 

[Pepsei]

well, amazing dodgers just clinched....

 

[akshatp]

Torre's playoff run continues while the Yanks run ended... Now if Torre won the WS this year that would drive the knife a little deeper into the Steinbreener's gut. If he does it against Boston, it would outright kill them.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: poncherelli2

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Interesting article but it doesn't factor in that Ramirez hasn't had the guys on base in front of him like he has in the past. With less runners on base for him, the less fastballs he'll see.

The consensus is that Manny can't get around on fastballs like he could two or three years ago. Check out some of the pitch f/x data. He's been thrown a good number of them and turned a lot of them into outs.

His GB% has also trended up for the second year in a row, contributing to more GIDP, and suggesting he's having trouble generating the power to lift the pitches like he used to,

Yeah, Manny has done horrible with LA.

 

[akshatp]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: poncherelli2

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Interesting article but it doesn't factor in that Ramirez hasn't had the guys on base in front of him like he has in the past. With less runners on base for him, the less fastballs he'll see.

The consensus is that Manny can't get around on fastballs like he could two or three years ago. Check out some of the pitch f/x data. He's been thrown a good number of them and turned a lot of them into outs.

His GB% has also trended up for the second year in a row, contributing to more GIDP, and suggesting he's having trouble generating the power to lift the pitches like he used to,

Yeah, Manny has done horrible with LA.

Tell me about it. He only single handedly turned the club around and into the pennant race/playoffs since his arrival.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: akshatp
Torre's playoff run continues while the Yanks run ended... Now if Torre won the WS this year that would drive the knife a little deeper into the Steinbreener's gut. If he does it against Boston, it would outright kill them.

Would be too funny if the former Yankee skipper won a WS in LA while a former Red Sox won MVP...

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
I'm sending this via the free wifi from AT&T park. Manny just grounded out to 3rd. Btw it's august and it's freezing.

Shens.

California doesn't know what freezing is unless you're in the mountains.