Manny Ramirez to LA Dodgers

[sciencewhiz]

The Dodgers now have 5 outfielders.

 

[anxi80]

so the dodgers got manny eh? they'll probably pay him a bunch of money after this season to stay, he'll get injured and he'll join the overpaid-to-not-play club. (see: kevin brown, jason schmidt and andruw jones [not so much physical injuries but a mental one where he completely forgot how to hit])

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
The Dodgers now have 5 outfielders.

yeah, they compete with LAA for the most overpaid OF in history.

 

[dbk]

Originally posted by: anxi80
so the dodgers got manny eh? they'll probably pay him a bunch of money after this season to stay, he'll get injured and he'll join the overpaid-to-not-play club. (see: kevin brown, jason schmidt and andruw jones [not so much physical injuries but a mental one where he completely forgot how to hit])

Please don't compare ManRam to those 3... WOW

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
The Dodgers now have 5 outfielders.

yeah, they compete with LAA for the most overpaid OF in history.

At least the Angels will be in the Series.

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: anxi80
so the dodgers got manny eh? they'll probably pay him a bunch of money after this season to stay, he'll get injured and he'll join the overpaid-to-not-play club. (see: kevin brown, jason schmidt and andruw jones [not so much physical injuries but a mental one where he completely forgot how to hit])

Yes please.

<--- Giants fan.

 

[Perknose]

Meh. The Dodgers traded a couple of surplus pieces in the hopes a motivated Ramirez (he still IS one hell of a hitter, folks) will catch fire and push them ahead of Colorado and Arizona in that crap division. I understand it.

The BoSox get rid or a malingering distraction and possible clubhouse cancer who has been pulling the ultimate no-no in baseball, not wanting to play every day. They get a younger, cheaper player, Jason Bay, who's not dog meat and whose numbers this year approximate Manny's this year. I understand it, more or less.

The pitiful Pirates get four youngsters with upsides. I understand it.

I think the big loser here is Manny. He gets to opt out of two guaranteed $20/yr paydays. He thinks someone is going to give him a $100 million/4yr contract. Maybe the Yankees will, they can absorb any number of ultimately bad, big bucks decisions. In years past, he could have counted on this payday.

But I think the post-steroid era has coincided with clubs more valuing youth and being wary of high-priced oldsters. That's one of the reasons Barry Bonds doesn't have a job.

I don't think Manny is going to easily get the contract he thinks he will, even if he propels the Dodgers into the post season (they won't get that far into it anyway).

And yeah, I'm hoping Jeff Kent and Manny get into one big name-calling slap-fest. They kind of deserve each other. :laugh:

 

[LuckyTaxi]

Once again the phillies suck. No pitching

 

[DanTMWTMP]

*dodgers fan here*

yay! anything like that is better than the current situation!!! yayayayayayayay! just don't get injured!! please!!! SIGH! Year after year after year after year after year of injuries and false hopes

 

[PetunZ]

Originally posted by: anxi80
so the dodgers got manny eh? they'll probably pay him a bunch of money after this season to stay, he'll get injured and he'll join the overpaid-to-not-play club. (see: kevin brown, jason schmidt and andruw jones [not so much physical injuries but a mental one where he completely forgot how to hit])

You forgot Darren Dreifort in that too.

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
The Dodgers now have 5 outfielders.

If you're counting by production, it's only 4 OF.

But if by (Jones') weight, it's pushing 6.

 

[classy]

Jason Bay is a pretty good player and his offensive numbers should improve further going to American league and Fenway. He should be good for 40+ hrs and 100 rbis. What he is not going to replace is Manny in the post season. But he is certainly not garbage.

 

[geno]

Bye bye, Manny. Your bat will be missed, but not much else.

 

[bobeedee]

I'm a life long Red Sox fan, and usually don't side with management but good riddance. Manny was a POS with a great bat. They had to get someone who would play baseball vs. "Manny being Manny". Still hasn't been explained to me what he was so unhappy about. Someone from Red Sox Nation please clarify.

 

[NYHoustonman]

I hate that the Red Sox' collapse over the last week is being attributed to Manny as opposed to other players' failures (Beckett - 5 innings and 7 runs isn't going to cut it). I hate the move, too... It's a quick fix and I hope it works out for both sides, but I'm not convinced that Manny was so far gone that the Sox had to put together a last-minute deal as lopsided as this. I don't expect much more than Trot Nixon-caliber numbers from Bay, and while he's solid, he's naturally no Manny ( + Hansen + Moss + $7M).

Meh.

Originally posted by: bobeedee
I'm a life long Red Sox fan, and usually don't side with management but good riddance. Manny was a POS with a great bat. They had to get someone who would play baseball vs. "Manny being Manny". Still hasn't been explained to me what he was so unhappy about. Someone from Red Sox Nation please clarify.

He's upset that the front office didn't give him the respect given many other star, future-HOF players - that is, saying 'we want you back' and doing what is needed to make it happen. Granted, Manny's time in Boston has been rocky to say the least, and I hate him for the comments he made recently, but we need not act like Boston's front office was without fault. They've done this before - sort of a 'win or else' attitude that is good for a while but becomes tiresome when you have players the likes of Pedro and Manny entering the twilights of their careers. At least, that's how I see it. Would Manny have been worth $20M a year? No, but you get the feeling there weren't any talks whatsoever going on.

 

[Gibson486]

While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

 

[Gibson486]

Hansen was going no where. They were expecting him to deliver and everytime they brought him up, he just crashed and burned. Moss....I am not sure he would go beyond a utility player, but he is still very young. That was where they lost the most. they were not going to pick up Manny's extension, so they might as well get something for it. Bay had very similiar number to manny this season, so I can see why they wanted to trade him.


WAIT......

I did however miss the part where they said they were going to cover manny's contract. In that case, the trade is kind of bust. How many years do they Have Jason Bay for? They are basically paying 10 Million this year for him.....I guess they are banking that he has a break through year so they can trade him for another Manny type hitter....if there is one out there on the market.

The main problem was that the sox came out and said that they were going to cover manny's contract.....if they did not say that, they probably would have got a better deal.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Hansen was going no where. They were expecting him to deliver and everytime they brought him up, he just crashed and burned. Moss....I am not sure he would go beyond a utility player, but he is still very young. That was where they lost the most. they were not going to pick up Manny's extension, so they might as well get something for it. Bay had very similiar number to manny this season, so I can see why they wanted to trade him.


WAIT......

I did however miss the part where they said they were going to cover manny's contract. In that case, the trade is kind of bust. How many years do they Have Jason Bay for? They are basically paying 10 Million this year for him.....I guess they are banking that he has a break through year so they can trade him for another Manny type hitter....if there is one out there on the market.

The main problem was that the sox came out and said that they were going to cover manny's contract.....if they did not say that, they probably would have got a better deal.

Bay's a FA after the 2009 season

 

[poncherelli2]

I think the sox kinda got hosed on this. Dodgers made out great and they'll get 2 draft picks after the season from Manny.

The sox do however have LF covered for next year rather cheaply in bay so they'll have a bunch more money to make a FA splash this off season

 

[Capt Caveman]

Bay is hitting .216 w/ runners in scoring position this year while Manny is hitting .309

Expect little protection for Ortiz and a big drop in runs produced by the heart of the order now.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

 

[poncherelli2]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

When you consider Manny's habit of sitting out against flamethrowers this season, Bay may end up out producing him by nature of being in the line-up more. The switch to Fenway and being in a deeper line-up may help as well, but its probably a wash between the two.

The Dodgers really made out well here trading a young, but someone unknown, arm and a good prospect who wasn't going to get a fair shake in LA for 2 FREE months of premium bat and 2 draft picks after the season.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

And Ramirez can carry a team while Bay can not. Also, look at my post above. Runners in scoring position, Ramirez excels while Bay does not. Now, put him in a pennant race with the pressure of playing in Boston and we'll see if Bay gets better or worse. We already know that the players around Bay in the line-up will not get the protection that Ramirez offered them. Then if they do get into the playoffs, we know that Ramirez has batted .400+ the last two WS runs.

Ramirez actually excelled at playing LF at Fenway along the Green Monster. It'll take Bay a long time to match Ramirez's prowess there. And Manny quit on the Sox in one game against NY. He's still played more games than any other Sox player besides Pedroia.

edit - if Ellsbury hadn't been so pitiful at the leadoff spot this season, Ramirez would at least another dozen plus rbi's.

 

[NYHoustonman]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Gibson486
While I am not a Theo fan, I like this trade. They were NOT going to pick up his 20 Million dollar contract just to keep the Manny Ortiz offense. They might as well get something for it, which was the same reasoning for trading Nomar. Yes, they had 2nd thoughts, but those comments that he made just pushed theo over the top.

Terrible trade. Ramirez, Moss, Hansen and $7million = Bay

Bay isn't even equal to Ramirez and that makes it even more pathetic that they had to part with two prospects and $7million.

Bay has put up pretty similar offensive numbers, he plays better defense, and he's cheaper. Losing a motivated, happy Manny hurts the Red Sox. Losing the selfish whiner who refused to play for the past two weeks and gaining Jason Bay is an upgrade.

Everyone KNEW the Sox were going to get rid of Manny, so I'm surprised they got anything and I'm very happy that they only gave up Moss (quality player, but no future in Boston) and Hansen (in need of a change of scenery).

Ramirez is a full 2.5 wins better than Pierre going forward and Bay is only ~4 runs worse than Manny over that same period. Basically, the Sox made a lateral move and got rid of a guy who had become a clubhouse cancer.

As for the money -- who cares? It was already going to Ramirez anyway. Bay is STILL cheaper by about 12 million dollars.

To compare Bay to Ramirez, even at this late point in his career, is insane. Granted, Bay has always had talent and could turn into a 40-HR guy, but I'm not banking on that, not when he's never experienced the pressure bigger cities have to offer (even in Pittsburgh, as others have mentioned, his numbers in close situations and with RISP have been pitiful this year). David Ortiz' bat will suffer, and I frankly don't see the Sox making the playoffs this year unless the bullpen (which management did nothing to improve, by the way) turns it around. Yes, Manny is entering the twilight of his career, but I think it's obvious he has more in the tank given his performance over the last month.

Even with all that's gone on, Manny has played more games with the Sox this season than everyone but Dustin Pedroia. He was starting to turn things around and, let's face it, his impact on the Sox' recent struggles has been grossly exaggerated.

The Red Sox are paying for both Bay's and Ramirez's contracts, so I fail to understand the 'Bay is cheaper' argument unless you mean in future seasons, in which case it's probably true. I wouldn't expect to pay more for a lesser talent.