Originally posted by: Comanche
I am just curious if anyone here had children or has children would want their 5 year old son or daughter doing any of these drugs. Suppose that we legalize the drugs suggested here. You have them in your house, and you know how kids are. They see you doing it, why can't they?
Originally posted by: jhbball
I support legalizing marijuana. But I do recognize that regulating it would be more difficult. Is there an equivalent 'breathalizer' for marijuana use? It may be costly to implement such a thing. I'm aware that there's urine and blood tests for this sort of thing, but without an instant test, wouldn't that cause trouble for those seeking to punish people driving under the influence? At what point would one be too high to drive (equivalent BAC)?
Originally posted by: Comanche
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Comanche
We have a hard enough time trying to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors, let alone doubling the problem with legalizing drugs.
Do you really want to have that many more people driving cars down the road stoned? It is bad enough as it is.
Wow... faulty logic FTL.
No, by legalizing these drugs, you are making them mainstream and making access to them all that much easier. Think about it, these drugs are illegal and access is restricted to the black market. Make them legal where you can buy them over a counter and it will increase the number of people who will missuse them. Alcohol is the perfect example. I would wager to bet that during prohibition that drunk driving was substantially reduced. I don't want to get into the increase in illegal activity here either. By legalizing a drug and making it mainstream you are opening society up to greater ills than what we see now.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jhbball
I support legalizing marijuana. But I do recognize that regulating it would be more difficult. Is there an equivalent 'breathalizer' for marijuana use? It may be costly to implement such a thing. I'm aware that there's urine and blood tests for this sort of thing, but without an instant test, wouldn't that cause trouble for those seeking to punish people driving under the influence? At what point would one be too high to drive (equivalent BAC)?
At about the same point that one would have taken too much of their prescription drug to drive.
Originally posted by: jhbball
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jhbball
I support legalizing marijuana. But I do recognize that regulating it would be more difficult. Is there an equivalent 'breathalizer' for marijuana use? It may be costly to implement such a thing. I'm aware that there's urine and blood tests for this sort of thing, but without an instant test, wouldn't that cause trouble for those seeking to punish people driving under the influence? At what point would one be too high to drive (equivalent BAC)?
At about the same point that one would have taken too much of their prescription drug to drive.
Can they actually do an on-site test for this?
Originally posted by: jhbball
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jhbball
I support legalizing marijuana. But I do recognize that regulating it would be more difficult. Is there an equivalent 'breathalizer' for marijuana use? It may be costly to implement such a thing. I'm aware that there's urine and blood tests for this sort of thing, but without an instant test, wouldn't that cause trouble for those seeking to punish people driving under the influence? At what point would one be too high to drive (equivalent BAC)?
At about the same point that one would have taken too much of their prescription drug to drive.
Can they actually do an on-site test for this?
SmokingOriginally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Comanche
I am just curious if anyone here had children or has children would want their 5 year old son or daughter doing any of these drugs. Suppose that we legalize the drugs suggested here. You have them in your house, and you know how kids are. They see you doing it, why can't they?
Did you really just devolve this into a "Think of the children!" argument? :roll:
Here's a list of all the things I don't want my children doing:
Watching too much TV
Eating too much junk food
Smoking
Failing school
Develop a drinking problem
Getting addicted to drugs
Contracting STDs or an unwanted pregnancy
Getting into an auto accident
etc...
Notice how all but 1 of these things are perfectly "legal." What's a parent to do!? Oh yeah, the thing parents are supposed to do - PARENT!
Why do we want to profit from the sacrifices of others.
Originally posted by: Comanche
Smoking
Developing a dringking problem
Contracting STD or and unwanted pregnancy
Just these three are along enough to give a parent headaches. Why would you want to legalize drugs and add another level to the problem.
I invoked this because it is relevant to the discussion. Most everyone here who wants to legalize drugs are saying to tax it. Why do we want to profit from the sacrifices of others. Why can't we hold ourselves to a higher standard and just say no. Some would say I am not my brothers keeper, but I would disaggree, we have to look out for one another. Any one you who might smoke would say I wish there was someone out there who would have helped me with this and helped me to not get started. Well, I am that way, I don't think any drugs are helpful, and I think we should help people to not get started. One of those ways is to make sure that they (drugs) are not legalized.
Originally posted by: jhbball
I support legalizing marijuana. But I do recognize that regulating it would be more difficult. Is there an equivalent 'breathalizer' for marijuana use? It may be costly to implement such a thing. I'm aware that there's urine and blood tests for this sort of thing, but without an instant test, wouldn't that cause trouble for those seeking to punish people driving under the influence? At what point would one be too high to drive (equivalent BAC)?
Originally posted by: ric1287
I have a question.....what happens to the people 'running' the black market for drugs? All the gangs and shit that live off of drug money just say "hey, well, its legal now. I guess we should go back to school now and get real jobs"
Thats more for legalization of all drugs. I can see the argument for weed, but thinking that legalizing every drug somehow makes things better is idiotic.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ric1287
I have a question.....what happens to the people 'running' the black market for drugs? All the gangs and shit that live off of drug money just say "hey, well, its legal now. I guess we should go back to school now and get real jobs"
Thats more for legalization of all drugs. I can see the argument for weed, but thinking that legalizing every drug somehow makes things better is idiotic.
Actually, they don't want legalization. That's why the actual marijuana users are fighting for decriminalization instead. They don't want to lose their black market subculture. To put it in perspective, and despite what you may have heard to the contrary, it's a lot easier to brew your own beer than it is to grow your own weed. That should tell you what's going to happen to the drug subculture under legalization.
As for the other drugs, that's because you (like every other American) have been brainwashed into believing that selling drugs is a highly lucrative trade. When the reality is that, unless you're some 80s-era Colombian drug kingpin, it's not. Most drug dealers only manufacture and deal drugs as a full-time job because they can't pass the piss test/background check to get a real job (which BTW is now one of the leading causes of job denial, and hence unemployment, in America), and not because it pays well.
Of course, you're right that legalization won't make everything all better by itself. Crime is caused by unemployment and poverty, and legalization won't change that. What it will do, and at least what I hope it would do, is stop this reefer madness bullshit of blaming drugs for crime. That might be too much to hope for, I suppose, but at least we won't be imprisoning a million otherwise innocent people anymore.
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ric1287
I have a question.....what happens to the people 'running' the black market for drugs? All the gangs and shit that live off of drug money just say "hey, well, its legal now. I guess we should go back to school now and get real jobs"
Thats more for legalization of all drugs. I can see the argument for weed, but thinking that legalizing every drug somehow makes things better is idiotic.
Actually, they don't want legalization. That's why the actual marijuana users are fighting for decriminalization instead. They don't want to lose their black market subculture. To put it in perspective, and despite what you may have heard to the contrary, it's a lot easier to brew your own beer than it is to grow your own weed. That should tell you what's going to happen to the drug subculture under legalization.
As for the other drugs, that's because you (like every other American) have been brainwashed into believing that selling drugs is a highly lucrative trade. When the reality is that, unless you're some 80s-era Colombian drug kingpin, it's not. Most drug dealers only manufacture and deal drugs as a full-time job because they can't pass the piss test/background check to get a real job (which BTW is now one of the leading causes of job denial, and hence unemployment, in America), and not because it pays well.
Of course, you're right that legalization won't make everything all better by itself. Crime is caused by unemployment and poverty, and legalization won't change that. What it will do, and at least what I hope it would do, is stop this reefer madness bullshit of blaming drugs for crime. That might be too much to hope for, I suppose, but at least we won't be imprisoning a million otherwise innocent people anymore.
Selling drugs isn't lucrative? The average 'dealer' makes more money than i do at my legit job, so i disagree on that.
And the crime isn't brought solely because people are "poor and can't get jobs because of drug tests". Almost all violence (sans domestic) is from drugs. Prostitution is from drugs, murder is from drugs, stealing is from drugs. It exists because if you are a crack head or any other 'head', you cannot do anything else. You cannot hold down a job, so you rob and steal. That will be the case whether drugs are legal or illegal.
So if you expand it out, and make drugs legal. That = more addicts which also = more crime.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ric1287
I have a question.....what happens to the people 'running' the black market for drugs? All the gangs and shit that live off of drug money just say "hey, well, its legal now. I guess we should go back to school now and get real jobs"
Thats more for legalization of all drugs. I can see the argument for weed, but thinking that legalizing every drug somehow makes things better is idiotic.
Actually, they don't want legalization. That's why the actual marijuana users are fighting for decriminalization instead. They don't want to lose their black market subculture. To put it in perspective, and despite what you may have heard to the contrary, it's a lot easier to brew your own beer than it is to grow your own weed. That should tell you what's going to happen to the drug subculture under legalization.
As for the other drugs, that's because you (like every other American) have been brainwashed into believing that selling drugs is a highly lucrative trade. When the reality is that, unless you're some 80s-era Colombian drug kingpin, it's not. Most drug dealers only manufacture and deal drugs as a full-time job because they can't pass the piss test/background check to get a real job (which BTW is now one of the leading causes of job denial, and hence unemployment, in America), and not because it pays well.
Of course, you're right that legalization won't make everything all better by itself. Crime is caused by unemployment and poverty, and legalization won't change that. What it will do, and at least what I hope it would do, is stop this reefer madness bullshit of blaming drugs for crime. That might be too much to hope for, I suppose, but at least we won't be imprisoning a million otherwise innocent people anymore.
Selling drugs isn't lucrative? The average 'dealer' makes more money than i do at my legit job, so i disagree on that.
And the crime isn't brought solely because people are "poor and can't get jobs because of drug tests". Almost all violence (sans domestic) is from drugs. Prostitution is from drugs, murder is from drugs, stealing is from drugs. It exists because if you are a crack head or any other 'head', you cannot do anything else. You cannot hold down a job, so you rob and steal. That will be the case whether drugs are legal or illegal.
So if you expand it out, and make drugs legal. That = more addicts which also = more crime.
And this is exactly the kind misinformation I was talking about.
I would LOVE to see you back up your drug warrior rhetoric here, but I know you can't, because it's all bullshit propaganda.
Studies show that the average drug dealer makes the equivalent of $3/hr.
The only drug predominate in violent crime is alcohol. FYI: marijuana does not make its users violent.
And there is ZERO evidence that legalization (or prohibition) has ANY impact of use. It never ceases to amaze how drug warriors act like the drug war has worked.
Regardless, the statement that more addicts = more crime is not backed by any credible science. Worse than that, we're talking about marijuana here -- it's not even an addictive drug.
Next I expect you'll argue against evolution by citing from the Bible.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ric1287
I have a question.....what happens to the people 'running' the black market for drugs? All the gangs and shit that live off of drug money just say "hey, well, its legal now. I guess we should go back to school now and get real jobs"
Thats more for legalization of all drugs. I can see the argument for weed, but thinking that legalizing every drug somehow makes things better is idiotic.
Actually, they don't want legalization. That's why the actual marijuana users are fighting for decriminalization instead. They don't want to lose their black market subculture. To put it in perspective, and despite what you may have heard to the contrary, it's a lot easier to brew your own beer than it is to grow your own weed. That should tell you what's going to happen to the drug subculture under legalization.
As for the other drugs, that's because you (like every other American) have been brainwashed into believing that selling drugs is a highly lucrative trade. When the reality is that, unless you're some 80s-era Colombian drug kingpin, it's not. Most drug dealers only manufacture and deal drugs as a full-time job because they can't pass the piss test/background check to get a real job (which BTW is now one of the leading causes of job denial, and hence unemployment, in America), and not because it pays well.
Of course, you're right that legalization won't make everything all better by itself. Crime is caused by unemployment and poverty, and legalization won't change that. What it will do, and at least what I hope it would do, is stop this reefer madness bullshit of blaming drugs for crime. That might be too much to hope for, I suppose, but at least we won't be imprisoning a million otherwise innocent people anymore.
Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
1. Marijuana does not cause brain damage, even heavy use. It may even trigger neauron proliferation:
Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society Study
Cannabinoid injections sprout new neurons in mice
2. Although marijuana has a higher tar content that cigerets, it does not cause lung cancer. In fact, you chances of lung cancer is less that that of non-cigarette-smokers if you use marijuana. This is likely because of its affects on the immune system that remain largely undetermined
Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
Cannabis Compound Slows Cancer Spread in Mice, Researchers Say
3. A massive study done in australia shows that driving under the influence of marijuana is not dangerous
Cannabis and driving - more evidence (can't link to actual study)
Like any drug marijuana is good or bad for you depending on the context of use. It definitely has medicinal properties which is why the FDA approved Dronabinol. So what the federal government is telling the American people is that cannabis is a dangerous drug with no medicinal purposes and a high potential for abuse, but its active ingredient has legitimate medicinal purposes. ...kind of like saying willow plants that contain acetylsalicylic acid have no medicinal use but the acetylsalicylic acid found in aspirin does.
Don't get me wrong, marijuana does plenty of bad things to your body. If I was told in school that THC is converted into a female hormone within my body that can cause my nipples to swell, my sexual function to decrease, my testosterone to drop, and all the bad things that result from endocrine imbalance; I would not have smoked as much as I did. Too bad all they showed me was a boiling egg on a frying pan and giant turtles who told me I was uncool. (BTW, when you and 3 of your friends are c0ck-blocking each other from trying to bang a news reporter and your only other friend is a giant rat, you have no authority in telling anyone what's cool or uncool)
Oh and to the "think of the children crowd":
How many children with leukemia and other cancers have to suffer because conservatives government is trying to set back research on the effects of cannabis on the immune system and on managing pain, under the premises that legalizing marijuana for medicinal use/research will send a message to children that its okay to do drugs. If we had that attitude towards opioids we would not have the pain relievers that we have today.
Originally posted by: jhbball
Just curious, how is that $3/hour decided? What a drug dealer makes divided by an 8 hour day?
Originally posted by: cobalt
I'd like to let you know that from personal experience you don't have to be a drug kingpin to make good money selling drugs on the street.
Originally posted by: EXman
rationalizations to smoke something that makes you a fat lazy bastard that does not contribute to society willing to give up real life concerns to get high. Overgeneralization for sure but it is more accurate than the it doesn't hurt other people Overgeneralization.
Honestly you all must have alot of free time on your hands because I have no time to sit around and use drugs. Real life doesn't stop because you want to get high. Shit needs to get done and when your high you don't care. Why do you see 40-50 yo stoners still wearing stuff from the seventies. They don't care about buying clothes, or how they look or smell, they want to get high.
Originally posted by: EXman
rationalizations to smoke something that makes you a fat lazy bastard that does not contribute to society willing to give up real life concerns to get high. Overgeneralization for sure but it is more accurate than the it doesn't hurt other people Overgeneralization.
Honestly you all must have alot of free time on your hands because I have no time to sit around and use drugs. Real life doesn't stop because you want to get high. Shit needs to get done and when your high you don't care. Why do you see 40-50 yo stoners still wearing stuff from the seventies. They don't care about buying clothes, or how they look or smell, they want to get high.