Marine faces 15 years behind bars for unknowingly violating gun law

[sdifox]

Yeah but are the kids in your area brave enough to shoot someone right in front of your local precinct?

This was last week. It's insane out there. Every few minutes you hear gunshots in the night sky.

that is nuts.

 

[Arkaign]

ignorance of the law is no excuse. if your gonna carry a handgun. keep up to date on the fking laws for your state and visiting states pertaining to such. its not hard.

I agree, though I do think that mandatory sentencing in this kind of thing is irreperably stupid.

Think of the cost to the NY taxpayer just due to this one "incident" in which the guy actually commited no damage to anyone, nor was that his intent at all. I'd imagine just in manpower and DA's office time that many tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted. If a judge had the authority to dismiss this with a fine and a warning, it could have been a lot more logically concluded.

Now it very much looks like this guy will have some serious criminal conviction, perhaps lose part of his life, and all for what? For trying to do the right thing, but being a little dumb about it?

The laws were written as they are to stop real criminals with real intent. I agree with the idea of stopping those people, but what about obviously non-criminal well-meaning people who cause zero harm to anyone? Oh well, NY is a shithole, and the USA is basically becoming an Orwellian nightmare as time goes on.

 

[ShawnD1]

I'd ask.... but I'm not sure I want to know.

Countries usually have laws that make bribery a lot more difficult. For example, there's a maximum amount of money that someone in Canada can donate to a political party. It's roughly $1200 per year. The most "owned" party is the conservative party, and even then only 14% of their money comes from donations. The rest comes from government funds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_financing_in_Canada

Laws in the US are a lot more relaxed. There appears to be a limit on how much an individual can give to a party, but this can be worked around by forming a "527 organization" which does not have spending limits. The law also requires that the organization list who its donors are, so it's not exactly a secret who is helping win the election. If someone wins the election because the Help Obama For A Better America Association of America spent tens of millions of dollars and their top donor is ShawnD1, then the winner might care about the things ShawnD1 has to say.

 

[Kelvrick]

God damnit, why are people even responding to Hal. I already ignored him, but you bastards quoting him are still bringing his stupidity to my screen.

I need there to be a way to ignore responses to his posts as well as any threads he starts.

My actual response to the post: I completely understand and support the rights of individual states to decide on their own way to do MOST things. BUT, I think there are some things that they shouldn't be able to decide, and those are the basic rules/laws/ideals/whatever you want to call them that they should not be able to override, and those are framed in the constitution with the 10th giving states the right to change whatever else the fuck they want.

Given the current political climate and laws though, that marine was completely stupid to do that. I hope he gets off, but god damn, know the laws of the states before going there. Especially states like New York, Maryland, and Illinois.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

The second amendment is the law of this country and as such, state laws that attempt to circumvent it should be declared null and void.

I personally believe in gun control, but real gun control where guns are actively seized from criminals, not just from law abiding citizens. And until Congress sees fit to repeal the second amendment and enact such gun control, laws such as this in New York are basically terrorism.

And, in order to respond to the states' rights argument, OK: if another state wants to outlaw gun possession, with no reciprocity to permit holders of other states, sentencing should only apply to their citizens, banishment from the state and delivering of that person to the authorities of his home state for ultimate release and agreement not to return to the state of violation should be the maximum penalty. Just like the United States gives support to its citizens in trouble abroad with the goal of having them repatriated, so too should states protect their own citizens when something like this happens.

 

[DominionSeraph]

And, in order to respond to the states' rights argument, OK: if another state wants to outlaw gun possession, with no reciprocity to permit holders of other states, sentencing should only apply to their citizens, banishment from the state and delivering of that person to the authorities of his home state for ultimate release and agreement not to return to the state of violation should be the maximum penalty. Just like the United States gives support to its citizens in trouble abroad with the goal of having them repatriated, so too should states protect their own citizens when something like this happens.

Gonna gas me some Southerners to up the average IQ of the nation, then. Free trip home is the maximum penalty? Doesn't sound like a penalty to me.

 

[pontifex]

If the US government would follow the Constitution, we wouldn't have this this problem. Gun laws like this are unconstitutional.

 

[destrekor]

I'll never understand why every state in America acts independantly from one another there seems to be no national law over there, it's like continent not a country.

The EU seems to have more common laws than the US.

And?

That's the whole point, and probably half the reason our federated territories are called "States", versus Territory or Provence or etc. I know a few other countries have "States", such as Mexico and Australia, but I'm not sure how sovereign they are in terms of jurisdiction and separation of powers.

Our States are supposed (key word) to be sovereign in almost all degrees save for the amount of unification necessary at the Federal level.
I fear that, sooner or later, our States will simply be names for regional grouping purposes and nothing more. It was meant for them to be highly independent, but our Elected Fucktards are slowly eroding the wall separating Federal and State government and law.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Gonna gas me some Southerners to up the average IQ of the nation, then. Free trip home is the maximum penalty? Doesn't sound like a penalty to me.

You do realize this topic is about a specific crime, right? I'm not talking about any other crime except charging a valid weapons permit holder of another state with gun possession. Not stealing from anyone, not committing a violent crime, nothing else at all.

I almost thought about being specific, but I thought it was enough that this topic was already about something specific.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

It's NYC gun laws that make me feel I am going to get killed by some punk kid in my neighborhood.

It's only 3 days into the year and already 3 shootings in less than ¼ mile of me. link.

There's no way of defending yourself in my neighborhood lately.

From the link:

...A man shot in the knee walked into Lincoln Hospital about 4:10 a.m. He had been shot near E. 161 St. and Gerard Ave.

Respect.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Our States are supposed (key word) to be sovereign in almost all degrees save for the amount of unification necessary at the Federal level.

I don't understand how HAL can't comprehend this. One of the great things about the USA is the sovereignty of the states. Don't like high property taxes? Move to a cheaper/lower service state. Like states with heavy gun control? Move into one of them, or to Texas if you're a gun lover.

Personally I think state sovereignty is an awesome concept, particularly in a nation where state borders are permeable.

 

[Mike Gayner]

New York shouldn't have the choice, the government should make a decisions and then all states have to accept it.

You realise the NY state has its own government, right? Having state-level decisions made by state-level government is a much better way of governing a large country than just a massive federal authority.

 

[irishScott]

Can you imagine what it would be like (maybe it is like this I don't know) if drivers licenses were only valid in the state they are issued by, you could drive across state borders and then get pulled over, show them your license and be arrested for driving without a valid license, it's insanity, it's a country not a continent.

There's been a bill in the works for years (reintroduced every legislative session, only to get shot down) to require states that issue concealed carry permits in any fashion to recognize permits from other states. We were 2 votes away from passing it last session IIRC. Now that Republicans control the house and there are a decent number of pro-gun Democrats in the senate, hopefully it'll get by.

 

[Tweak155]

There's been a bill in the works for years (reintroduced every legislative session, only to get shot down) to require states that issue concealed carry permits in any fashion to recognize permits from other states. We were 2 votes away from passing it last session IIRC. Now that Republicans control the house and there are a decent number of pro-gun Democrats in the senate, hopefully it'll get by.

Seems like this would just be a way to circumvent the local gun laws of the state. If you want to own a gun and carry it, then you have the responsibility to learn the laws of where you're traveling. Don't want to learn the law? Don't carry the gun.

I imagine it would have been better to call a local police station to get this information rather than use the internet, who knows what site he used.

EDIT:

That said - he obviously shouldn't receive the penalties outlined in NY law. This is just a flaw of their laws.

 

[gorcorps]

I think that if the majority of the people want something in a democracy then that should be the law. That's democracy. If the majority want guns banned then so be it.

That's a very good point, and did you know that the majority wants separate state and federal laws? It's true.

 

[Doppel]

That's ridiculous. Is there no room for common sense when it comes to enforcing the law?

America, fvck yeah.

 

[edro]

loliberals

qft

 

[HAL9000]

And?

That's the whole point, and probably half the reason our federated territories are called "States", versus Territory or Provence or etc. I know a few other countries have "States", such as Mexico and Australia, but I'm not sure how sovereign they are in terms of jurisdiction and separation of powers.

Our States are supposed (key word) to be sovereign in almost all degrees save for the amount of unification necessary at the Federal level.
I fear that, sooner or later, our States will simply be names for regional grouping purposes and nothing more. It was meant for them to be highly independent, but our Elected Fucktards are slowly eroding the wall separating Federal and State government and law.

I don't think that's a bad thing, I think the biggest problem with America is the fact that there are very little things unifying it and as a result it doesn't appear to be going in one direction or another.

You realise the NY state has its own government, right? Having state-level decisions made by state-level government is a much better way of governing a large country than just a massive federal authority.

I did realise that, and I see the merit of state-level decision making, we have a similar smaller scale system, we have government and local government, local government makes decisions on things like funding for schools, dealing with road building (for the most part) rubbish collection and stuff like that, the rest is national government, I can perfectly see that stuff like rubbish collection should be a national decision, it wouldn't work, but things like gun licenses?

That's a very good point, and did you know that the majority wants separate state and federal laws? It's true.

I did not, that's interesting, if that was done then what would make the USA a country? I suppose a single currency... like the Euro...

 

[HAL9000]

There's been a bill in the works for years (reintroduced every legislative session, only to get shot down) to require states that issue concealed carry permits in any fashion to recognize permits from other states. We were 2 votes away from passing it last session IIRC. Now that Republicans control the house and there are a decent number of pro-gun Democrats in the senate, hopefully it'll get by.

That would make far more sense, but that is just putting a plaster over a small problem and not dealing with the underlying issue.

 

[Macamus Prime]

He was traveling with $15,000 worth of jewelry that he planned to sell.

Where was he going to sell this jewelry? Most legitimate jewelry buyers are NOT located in an area where you need to arm yourself. Was he selling the jewelry to a business in the Empire State building? The article won't load for me, so excuse me it this is already answered.

So, unless you are announcing you have $15K worth of jewelry on you and you are going to sell it to someone in an alley in Crown Heights, you don't need a gun.

NY does have fucked up gun laws, but - that's what happens when drug pushers and gangs start offing one another,... as well as the cops that show up to the scene.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I'll never understand why every state in America acts independantly from one another there seems to be no national law over there, it's like continent not a country.

The EU seems to have more common laws than the US.

there is a very clear national law regarding firearms. Somehow we've allowed it to be trampled upon by liberals.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

That's ridiculous. Is there no room for common sense when it comes to enforcing the law?

Not in Bloombergs New york. ignorance is no excuse blah blah blah

Dude must feel proud he risked his life to defend a crumbling constitution.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

inb4 conservatards complaining about states' rights.

This isn't even a state's rights issue. In upstate new york you can open carry in some places. This is assinine NYC rights

 

[alent1234]

Of course, with a country the size of the US there are going to be huge cultural differences between certain places, but if it is identified as a country then there needs to be some national unity when it comes to certain laws, a person shouldn't be breaking a law by acting one way in one place in the country, then going somewhere else and doing the same thing and being perfectly legal. Unless of course those laws are very specific to the environment, I can perfectly understand why hunting for example is legal in some places, but not legal in national parks. But some things just don't make sense to break up like this, licenses are definitely one of them.

With guns, the US needs to decide one way or another which way they are going with them, then make a broad sweeping law that encompasses every state, so that you can make absolutely statements like "In America it is legal to carry a gun if you have a license" etc. Not "oh it's legal to have this gun there and that gun here, but if you take that gun there you're a criminal and if you take that gun out in public here it's fine, but do it two towns over and you're a criminal, unless... blah"




I agree. Definitely

most people have no trouble following these laws. i know people who own guns in NYC and you can get a CCW as well. you just have to apply for it and it takes time like anywhere else

 

[pontifex]

There's been a bill in the works for years (reintroduced every legislative session, only to get shot down) to require states that issue concealed carry permits in any fashion to recognize permits from other states. We were 2 votes away from passing it last session IIRC. Now that Republicans control the house and there are a decent number of pro-gun Democrats in the senate, hopefully it'll get by.

oh, i thought that passed this last time?