Marine Major blasts broken & lazy females for pull-up performance

[Nebor]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20140218/NEWS/302180026/One-officer-s-opinion-Marines-who-can-t-do-pullups-broke-lazy-?fb_action_ids=10100206853910345&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=artsharetop&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B711673472206685%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.recommends%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22artsharetop%22%5D

Great article with a positive message, IMO. Rather than telling women that they can't do it, so they should be happy with flexed arm hangs, she's telling female Marines that they need to try.

"If you have not reached a minimum of three pullups by June 2014, you must fall into one of two categories: broke or lazy."

 

[Doppel]

I liked it.

 

[Strk]

I can't really complain with her logic. It's not as though they aren't given ample time and plenty of physical training to meet the minimum requirements.

I know pull-ups aren't the easiest. I remember in my high school, they did a ranking of various physical tests. The highest got to go on a field trip for a day (usually people who scored near the top in two or three tests). I got it because I managed 10 or 11 pull-ups (which I found amusing since I didn't play sports and wasn't particularly active in high school).

Seriously, it's not like there isn't plenty of physical training in the Marines.

 

[shortylickens]

OK, as someone who served I already see a HUGE problem here.
You know what I'm thinking?

Why is this fuckin public?

This should have been handled directly within the chain of command and never seen the public eye.
Somebody fucked up bad if this was let out. Maybe even the major herself. It makes assloads of officers and sergeants look horribly incompetent.

 

[Moonbeam]

OK, as someone who served I already see a HUGE problem here.
You know what I'm thinking?

Why is this fuckin public?

This should have been handled directly within the chain of command and never seen the public eye.
Somebody fucked up bad if this was let out. Maybe even the major herself. It makes assloads of officers and sergeants look horribly incompetent.

Respect is very important for people who hate themselves. You only worry about being incompetent if that's how you already feel.

 

[shortylickens]

Respect is very important for people who hate themselves. You only worry about being incompetent if that's how you already feel.

I never said shit about respect. I was talking about mission readiness and competence. It should have been handled in house because thats the best way to fix it. Civilians (yourself in particular) are way too ignorant about the importance of all these factors in how the military stays proficient and keeps things functioning. This one little tidbit is gonna get blown way out of proportion and now we have to explain a whole bunch of shit at once. Stuff that takes years for the average serviceman to figure out and understand.

Civilians dont have that kinda patience. They'll demand action (one way or the other) and demand it all be resolved in much less time than it takes to properly understand this shit.


Moonbeam, I dont mind you are hideously ignorant. I mind that you honestly believe you are knowledgeable and try to force your ignorant viewpoints on everyone as if you did know what you are talking about.

And please stop trying to push your bullshit agenda into situations that clearly dont warrant it.


Thank you.

 

[spittledip]

Respect is very important for people who hate themselves. You only worry about being incompetent if that's how you already feel.

It really is just about competence for job performance. Its like a data entry clerk who can only type 2 words a minute.

 

[trenchfoot]

Well, with the right kind of motivation, mountains can be moved, oceans can be parted and women in the Corps will persevere. It's what they do. They're Marines first and foremost.

Semper Fi, ladies.

 

[LunarRay]

I never said shit about respect. I was talking about mission readiness and competence. It should have been handled in house because thats the best way to fix it. Civilians (yourself in particular) are way too ignorant about the importance of all these factors in how the military stays proficient and keeps things functioning. This one little tidbit is gonna get blown way out of proportion and now we have to explain a whole bunch of shit at once. Stuff that takes years for the average serviceman to figure out and understand.

Civilians dont have that kinda patience. They'll demand action (one way or the other) and demand it all be resolved in much less time than it takes to properly understand this shit.


Moonbeam, I dont mind you are hideously ignorant. I mind that you honestly believe you are knowledgeable and try to force your ignorant viewpoints on everyone as if you did know what you are talking about.

And please stop trying to push your bullshit agenda into situations that clearly dont warrant it.


Thank you.

How about looking at the motivation to disseminate the relationship between Female Marines, their apparent difficulty with Pull ups and blocking Female Marines from front line combat situations.

The above scenario was the first thing that came to my mind... Why is the information out here? What purpose does it serve? Is it newsworthy? And, who provided the analysis of Female pull up capability to whom?

As might be expected, down at the VA hospital where I find myself a few times a week, anything military finds it way into discussion. This topic produced a general consensus that women simply don't have the same strength factors that men do and that it MAY have an impact on mission capability.
Do folks with their butt on the line want taking that chance? I'd not IF it were true which brings me back to my initial thought... Why is the information in the news....

 

[kage69]

I like Maj. Mullen's style.



I want to see her run too. That whole Basset hound thing has me intrigued.

 

[shortylickens]

How about looking at the motivation to disseminate the relationship between Female Marines, their apparent difficulty with Pull ups and blocking Female Marines from front line combat situations.

This thread and that article dont provide nearly enough info on the subject.

Which is what I was talking about above, you learn a lot of shit by serving but it takes years to absorb it all. Way too many folks without ANY info who are trying to make decisions.

 

[trenchfoot]

How about looking at the motivation to disseminate the relationship between Female Marines, their apparent difficulty with Pull ups and blocking Female Marines from front line combat situations.

The above scenario was the first thing that came to my mind... Why is the information out here? What purpose does it serve? Is it newsworthy? And, who provided the analysis of Female pull up capability to whom?

As might be expected, down at the VA hospital where I find myself a few times a week, anything military finds it way into discussion. This topic produced a general consensus that women simply don't have the same strength factors that men do and that it MAY have an impact on mission capability.
Do folks with their butt on the line want taking that chance? I'd not IF it were true which brings me back to my initial thought... Why is the information in the news....

Following a trail based on assumptive logic, I come up with the idea that some fellas in the Corp are not happy with having females threatening to invite themselves into the long held and revered bastion of machismo soaked masculinity: The battlefront. This along with the credible argument that if women can't pull the same load and endure as long as the average male Gyrene then they obviously don't belong in the same fighting hole with them.

So to make their point of view more effective and convincing - *poof* out comes the evidence supporting their claims.

As an aside, allow me to comment further in this post rather than creating a new one. IMO, there's no getting around the idea emanating from certain quarters in the military that situating females in the front lines right in the thick of armed conflict is more a matter of satisfying some kind of political equal opportunity agenda rather than being a policy meant to actually strengthen and improve the capability of a fighting unit.

Until I see or hear a convincing argument about how deploying women into front line fighting units will improve the capabilities of said fighting units rather than possibly lessening their cohesiveness and effectiveness, I'm going to stick with the opinion that there's no actual strategically derived real need to have them there.

I'm not arguing the point that females shouldn't be deployed to front line units whatsoever. All I need to convince me that they should be out there fighting hand to hand combat against a ferocious and determined enemy is one single credible argument.

 

[LunarRay]

This thread and that article dont provide nearly enough info on the subject.

Which is what I was talking about above, you learn a lot of shit by serving but it takes years to absorb it all. Way too many folks without ANY info who are trying to make decisions.

True... the information to answer all my questions is not present. And, I agree the military is best suited to make military decisions. Civilians are empowered over the military and as such get the distinction of being able to decide policy. I'd prefer the Committee's on the Armed Forces to be populated by Ex service members who not only can select the most appropriate Secretaries but also make appropriate policy or at least divorce the politics from the reality of the military.

 

[Moonbeam]

I never said shit about respect. I was talking about mission readiness and competence. It should have been handled in house because thats the best way to fix it. Civilians (yourself in particular) are way too ignorant about the importance of all these factors in how the military stays proficient and keeps things functioning. This one little tidbit is gonna get blown way out of proportion and now we have to explain a whole bunch of shit at once. Stuff that takes years for the average serviceman to figure out and understand.

Civilians dont have that kinda patience. They'll demand action (one way or the other) and demand it all be resolved in much less time than it takes to properly understand this shit.


Moonbeam, I dont mind you are hideously ignorant. I mind that you honestly believe you are knowledgeable and try to force your ignorant viewpoints on everyone as if you did know what you are talking about.

And please stop trying to push your bullshit agenda into situations that clearly dont warrant it.


Thank you.

You seem to be saying that folk will see incompetence and demand action that will be improper. I equated worry about appearing incompetent to a fear of a lack of respect. If you go off worried about things for reasons you aren't conscious of you will tilt at windmills and not at something real. It seems you are too egotistical to consider this and have gone all authoritarian as the expected response.

 

[LunarRay]

Following a trail based on assumptive logic, I come up with the idea that some fellas in the Corp are not happy with having females threatening to invite themselves into the long held and revered bastion of machismo soaked masculinity: The battlefront. This along with the credible argument that if women can't pull the same load and endure as long as the average male Gyrene then they obviously don't belong in the same fighting hole with them.

So to make their point of view more effective and convincing - *poof* out comes the evidence supporting their claims.

As an aside, allow me to comment further in this post rather than creating a new one. IMO, there's no getting around the idea emanating from certain quarters in the military that situating females in the front lines right in the thick of armed conflict is more a matter of satisfying some kind of political equal opportunity agenda rather than being a policy meant to actually strengthen and improve the capability of a fighting unit.

Until I see or hear a convincing argument about how deploying women into front line fighting units will improve the capabilities of said fighting units rather than possibly lessening their cohesiveness and effectiveness, I'm going to stick with the opinion that there's no actual strategically derived real need to have them there.

I'm not arguing the point that females shouldn't be deployed to front line units whatsoever. All I need to convince me that they should be out there fighting hand to hand combat against a ferocious and determined enemy is one single credible argument.

Men people have evolved to be better suited to do the hunting and fighting and stuff like that.
Even if some women could be as effective on the front as men and it be 'documented' somehow, I'd not want to assume it or the data to be true.
Israel has women in this position and they perform well, I have heard. But, using my thinking and trying to assume having a female under my command in a fire fight, I can imagine I'd be more than likely concerned not necessarily for the mission or the fire fight outcome but for her safety to the detriment of the former and thus putting in jeopardy the command. I'm that way.... I think that is true. It would take time and training to overcome that condition and that comes from within military without civilian input mandating NOW... NOW... NOW, As I see it.

 

[dainthomas]

OK, as someone who served I already see a HUGE problem here.
You know what I'm thinking?

Why is this fuckin public?

This should have been handled directly within the chain of command and never seen the public eye.
Somebody fucked up bad if this was let out. Maybe even the major herself. It makes assloads of officers and sergeants look horribly incompetent.

What are you talking about? Have you never read any of the armed forces newspapers? Every issue has an article or two with an officer or enlisted bitching about the status quo or some proposed change.

Marines are allowed to have opinions and express them. And besides this seems mostly directed at junior female Marines to get the lead out and quit whining.

 

[rpsgc]

"If you have not reached a minimum of three pullups by June 2014, you must fall into one of two categories: broke or lazy."

So poor people can't do pull-ups?

 

[waggy]

the whole "women can't do pullups" is such bullshit and disgusting. Women want equality yet look for ways to avoid it. being a gym rat in high school/college and now a father of 2. i spend far to much time in gyms.

In my daughters gymnastics they have girls in ages from 5-27 (the high school and college work out there). THEY ALL do pullup. it's part of the strength training. 11 would be no challenge for any of them.

As the lady in the article said they just need to train for it. they can do it.

Personally i would think having someone who can't climb a wall, climb in a window etc would be more of a hindrance then help.

 

[Nebor]

What are you talking about? Have you never read any of the armed forces newspapers? Every issue has an article or two with an officer or enlisted bitching about the status quo or some proposed change.

Marines are allowed to have opinions and express them. And besides this seems mostly directed at junior female Marines to get the lead out and quit whining.

You summed up my reaction to shortylickens. People have been writing opinion pieces to the service publications for years. Generally they write "what their rank will allow." A hotshot (career-wise) female Major? No one is going to say shit to her about this article, other than give her kudos.

 

[Nebor]

So poor people can't do pull-ups?

If they could they'd hoist themselves up by their bootstraps and stop being poor.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Just lower the standards already because that is what will be called for in the end to get the results progressives and politicians want to see occur. So change the goal posts, declare success and hopefully when it blows up in our faces it won't cost to many lives of our service men or women. Only then will we realize that attempt to push idealized visions of politically correct ideology onto our military is not the best course of action if you want to fight and win a war.

 

[Moonbeam]

Men people have evolved to be better suited to do the hunting and fighting and stuff like that.
Even if some women could be as effective on the front as men and it be 'documented' somehow, I'd not want to assume it or the data to be true.
Israel has women in this position and they perform well, I have heard. But, using my thinking and trying to assume having a female under my command in a fire fight, I can imagine I'd be more than likely concerned not necessarily for the mission or the fire fight outcome but for her safety to the detriment of the former and thus putting in jeopardy the command. I'm that way.... I think that is true. It would take time and training to overcome that condition and that comes from within military without civilian input mandating NOW... NOW... NOW, As I see it.

A simple answer to that, I would think, would be to put women in command.

 

[shortylickens]

What are you talking about? Have you never read any of the armed forces newspapers? Every issue has an article or two with an officer or enlisted bitching about the status quo or some proposed change.

Marines are allowed to have opinions and express them. And besides this seems mostly directed at junior female Marines to get the lead out and quit whining.

When I was in I read Navy Times. Almost every single article I remember was about how wonderful the Navy was, how awesome our opportunities were, how we were doing great things around the world and how much America and our politicians loved us.

When I got out, I stopped reading it. Because I never fucking took it seriously.

 

[JTsyo]

It really is just about competence for job performance. Its like a data entry clerk who can only type 2 words a minute.

This made sense:

United States Marines, of any MOS or gender, should be required — and able — to pull their body weight up and into a window, over a wall or into a helicopter.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LunarRay, it appears that you shadow Moonbeam and rarely interact in other threads outside that shadow. What is your relationship with Moonbeam if you don't mind my asking?