Mark Cuban vs. the BCS

[DT4K]

Eight is NOT enough.
That would likely leave out a lot of really good 1 loss teams.

A 16 team playoff would be perfect.

Some of you are pretty silly, suggesting that they shouldn't add 1 more game because of the risk of energy. Give me a break. They are already playing every week for 3 months for 2, 3, or 4 years in a row. Every one of those games involves the risk of injury, so why would one more game be the straw that broke the camels back?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Whatever it takes to have a playoff I'm all for it. I don't want to hear about how big and how fast these guys are. The freaking NFL teams play 16 games with one bye week and then go into a month-long playoff.

(And now for the ... 'but they are student athletes and need time for studies!!!' argument...)

**oops, looks like it happened two posts up lol (yeah I know it was tongue in cheek!)

 

[Fingolfin269]

so how are these 16 undefeated division 1 teams selected? same old polls?

Who knows... even if it's the 'same old polls' I couldn't care less if #17-25 get pissed off about being left out. No one is going to have much of a debate over the possibility that the current #17 in the BCS, Texas A&M, should have been there over #16 Alabama. I mean I'm sure some people would argue but its just a totally different type of argument than we have today.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Eight is NOT enough.
That would likely leave out a lot of really good 1 loss teams.

WTF cares? Win your conference and you're in, if you're not the best team in your own conference you've got no legitimate claim to being the best in the country.

 

[Fingolfin269]

WTF cares? Win your conference and you're in, if you're not the best team in your own conference you've got no legitimate claim to being the best in the country.

Yep, I'm okay with x number of auto bids (6 major conferences = 6 auto bids??) and 2 at-large. I would prefer the at-large automatically go to schools like TCU/Boise St./Utah/Nevada if they're ranked in the top 10 (BCS type poll) and default to a BCS-type poll system to pick any remaining slots.

 

[Gibsons]

But more rare than not. That and they make a lot of that from playing teams that lose money. So if losing $ teams stopped playing their profits would also go bye bye.

You're changing your point, you said "Colleges don;t put football teams up to make money. If they did then that is one badly run college." That's what I was responding to. Making 30 million plus doesn't seem "badly run" to me.

As for your new point, the big schools pay large sums to the smaller programs for playing a game, up to a million these days. So don't look for them to stop playing.

 

[KeithTalent]

Awesome, go Cuban! I honestly believe there would be more money for the schools with a playoff. Casual fans like myself that do not have a particular rooting interest would be much more likely to watch a playoff and more people watching means more money.

I don't have a rooting interest in College Basketball, but I watch the tournament every year, plus games throughout the season to get to know the better teams. You are always going to get students and alumni watching, no matter what, but why not try and get everyone else that did not attend a Football school and the people outside of the US as well.

I know it's the old guard holding it back, but a playoff is the next logical step for the sport in my opinion.

KT

 

[ElFenix]

Some schools make assloads on football.
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/20...y-grows-on-football-program-instead-of-trees/

texas is one of the few athletics programs in the black. ohio state is notoriously in the red. texas a&m, a large school with a pretty sizeable following, had a big shortfall in the athletics department and required a loan from the academic side to support itself.

 

[Vette73]

You're changing your point, you said "Colleges don;t put football teams up to make money. If they did then that is one badly run college." That's what I was responding to. Making 30 million plus doesn't seem "badly run" to me.

As for your new point, the big schools pay large sums to the smaller programs for playing a game, up to a million these days. So don't look for them to stop playing.

Samething. The FEW schools that make money make it off the backs of others. Just because someone gives a team a million dollars does not mean it helps, it just keep them afloat so they, profit school, can make money.

In the end the people that go to the school pay for it, when the majority don;t care, through fees, yet tution keeps going up.

If a program can't at least break even then it should not be playing. Many programs would get cut down and other schools would make more. i.e. level the field.

 

[Vette73]

Awesome, go Cuban! I honestly believe there would be more money for the schools with a playoff. Casual fans like myself that do not have a particular rooting interest would be much more likely to watch a playoff and more people watching means more money.

I don't have a rooting interest in College Basketball, but I watch the tournament every year, plus games throughout the season to get to know the better teams. You are always going to get students and alumni watching, no matter what, but why not try and get everyone else that did not attend a Football school and the people outside of the US as well.

I know it's the old guard holding it back, but a playoff is the next logical step for the sport in my opinion.

KT

YEP!!!

I have little to no intrest in college football as the Bowls are a joke to me. But a playoff system would at least allow someone like me to follow who is who and where they came from.

I hate basketball, pro and college, but because of the sweet 16 I know all the names of the good basketball programs in college. I can't name 1 football coach in college but I know who Coach K is, Dean Smith, Jimmy V, Bobby Knight, etc...

 

[Gibsons]

texas is one of the few athletics programs in the black. ohio state is notoriously in the red. texas a&m, a large school with a pretty sizeable following, had a big shortfall in the athletics department and required a loan from the academic side to support itself.

Athletic programs! = Football programs

Both TAMU and OSU's football programs make big money. Roughly the top 60 FBS schools do.

 

[Codewiz]

WTF cares? Win your conference and you're in, if you're not the best team in your own conference you've got no legitimate claim to being the best in the country.

I assume you are suggesting letting the big conferences keep their title games right?

So let me get this straight, if South Carolina had defeated Auburn in the SEC championship game, you think they belong in the playoffs over a 1 loss Auburn team?

That is pure rubbish. In this day and age of 85 scholarships, it is very hard to win every game you should. Conference championship means you should get an automatic invite but we should not exclude the better teams. That is absolutely why it must be 16 teams.

 

[ElFenix]

Athletic programs! = Football programs

no shit.

Both TAMU and OSU's football programs make big money. Roughly the top 60 FBS schools do.

haven't disputed that.


don't forget that the 85 football scholarships have to be balanced out with 85 women's sports scholarships. that probably should be included in the numbers as it is a requirement for having a football program with 85 men's scholarships.

 

[andylawcc]

A lot of people might not like him, but you can't fault him for being passionate about sports and being engaged in what happens to both his team and teams in general.

Good idea, I hope it comes to fruition.

that sums it up!

 

[bignateyk]

I assume you are suggesting letting the big conferences keep their title games right?

So let me get this straight, if South Carolina had defeated Auburn in the SEC championship game, you think they belong in the playoffs over a 1 loss Auburn team?

That is pure rubbish. In this day and age of 85 scholarships, it is very hard to win every game you should. Conference championship means you should get an automatic invite but we should not exclude the better teams. That is absolutely why it must be 16 teams.

The conference championship should be the first step in the playoffs. You're logic is flawed anyway, because in the playoffs the team has to win every game to make it to the end, so yes, they are expected to win every game. The conference championship is just the first round. If you can't even win your own conference, what makes you think the team can win 5 games straight in the playoffs against better teams?

 

[Wreckem]

There's too much football already! How do the players find time to study for their classes? :hmm:

The academic argument that is always used against a playoff system is bunk.

Basketball plays through Fall finals, they play through spring mid terms. They play more away games that make them miss more classes. Then you have the NCAA tourney which takes up even more time.

I guess no one care about the academics of bball players.

 

[actuarial]

16 teams. Each major conference gets two, each minor gets 1. Conferences decide themselves the criteria for their bids. Bracket is structured so that two teams from the same conference can't play each other until the finals. Random drawing otherwise.

That is how I would do it, but I don't have a billion dollars to bankroll my idea.

Edit: Majors choose a 1 and 2 team, with the 1 being guaranteed a first round home game. Minor conferences draw for a first round home game. Writers poll once teams are determined decide 2nd/3rd round home games (higher ranking gets home game), and a neutral site for the championship.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I've seen it said that 50-60% of Div I football programs make money.

http://californiawatch.org/dailyrep...e-college-athletic-programs-losing-money-4121

Yup. Cal makes a buttload of money. Ever since our coach came in 02, we've been making more and more. Even though our team is like meh the past 3 years, it's surprising to see the donors keep throwing in so much money.

And this isn't even really a football school. I think we've only become a football school the last 10 years since it's been too long of fail. The other football schools make some serious bank.

And like other posters say... athletic programs != football. Football makes money, but our #1 Rugby team was canned. It's not even an official sport under the athletic dept anymore. I forgot but there was some donors who still keep it alive. It operates independently or something. They talk about canning sports left and right even if football is doing well.

 

[Wreckem]

Athletic programs! = Football programs

Both TAMU and OSU's football programs make big money. Roughly the top 60 FBS schools do.

Using the term big money and top 60 makes its less accurate.

A&M makes a lot. They have a 90,000+ seat stadium and a shit ton of alumni as they are a massive school. Same for OSU.

Smaller FBS schools, even smaller major FBS schools do not make near as much money as TAMU, OSU, UT, Florida, etc.

To make a lot of money you need 1. a lot of almuni 2. a big ass stadium

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I assume you are suggesting letting the big conferences keep their title games right?

So let me get this straight, if South Carolina had defeated Auburn in the SEC championship game, you think they belong in the playoffs over a 1 loss Auburn team?

That is pure rubbish. In this day and age of 85 scholarships, it is very hard to win every game you should. Conference championship means you should get an automatic invite but we should not exclude the better teams. That is absolutely why it must be 16 teams.

Wow, idiocy of the highest order on so many levels that it's hard to know where to begin.

1) Conference champ goes to the playoffs. That's the way it is, that's the way it's always been all the way back to the very beginning of organized sports. A conference can choose it's champ however it wants whether it's regular season cumulative or playoff game, but the undeniable fact is that 2nd Best team in a conference/division/league is NOT the overall best team. And if Auburn choked in their playoff game and lost, then yes, they don't belong in the national title hunt, the team that beat them head-to-head in the most important game of the year would.

2) Newsflash zippy, if Auburn lost to SC in the SEC title game they wouldn't be playing for the national title in the current system either.

3) The difference between championship teams and pretenders is that the championship teams win "every game you should" and the pretenders lose. That's true whether you've got 85 scholarships, 10 scholarships, are paid professionals or are playing Pop Warner. Eventually it comes down to must-win games on every level in every sport and if you can't win the must-win games you are not good enough to be the national champ. Period.

4) How the fuck does 16 teams fix anything? Then you're right back to relying on polls and voting and other bullshit. The idea of a playoff is to get rid of the idiocy with the computers and to settle things on the field. All you're doing is creating another level of whining where somebody has to decide who is the #16 team and in and who is the #17 team and goes home. You really can't grasp the stupidity of going to a playoff while keeping the same miserable poll system that makes the playoff necessary in the first place? Really?

The simple fact is that you have to WIN. You have to beat your conference, you have to beat your playoff foes, you have to beat the other team left standing at the end. You have to win and you have to keep winning. If you can't sack up and win the big game, if somebody else comes along and smacks you down when it counts in a winner take all game then they are the better team and you need to quit whining, shut up and go home.

And speaking of being smacked down, you have been. So quit whining and shut up. Anyone that proposes replacing the current polls that don't work with other polls that won't work is a complete moron. Settle it on the field.

 

[sactoking]

Ok, for all you who are stuck on the money argument, here are the facts from the NCAA (all figures derived from here:http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/REV_EXP_2010.pdf)

14 athletic programs in FBS reported positive net revenue in 2009.
This is down from the 25 in 2008.
The gap between "profitable" and other programs continues to grow.
Number of athletes across all divisions remains stable
Expenses per athlete across all divisions are rising
Total athletic expenditures as a percentage of total institutional expenditures have remained constant across all divisions (~5%)
FBS median revenue grew 5.8%
FBS median expenses grew 23.8%
The median losses of athletic programs in FBS grew 25.7% from ($8,089,000) to ($10,164,000)
111 athletic programs in FBS reported losses in 2009
Of the programs reporting losses, median losses increased 10.5%
The largest FBS athletic program generated revenue of $138,500,000
The median FBS athletic program generated revenue of $32,264,000
The largest FBS athletic program generated expenses of $127,651,000
The median FBS athletic program generated expenses of $45,887,000
50-60% of football and men's basketball programs have reported surpluses for each of the last 5 years
The largest FBS football program had revenue of $87,584,000
The median FBS football program had revenue of $15,306,000
The largest FBS football program had expenses of $40,829,000
The median FBS football program had expenses of $11,919,000
The median "profit" of FBS football programs that made money was $8,805,000
The median "loss" of FBS football programs that lost money was ($2,697,000)
The median FBS football program had net revenue ("profit") of $2,541,000
The top 5% of FBS football programs make ~35.7% of all football profit
The top 10% of FBS football programs make ~56.2% of all football profit
The top 15% of FBS football programs make ~68.6% of all football profit
The bottom 5% of FBS football programs account for ~21.7% of all football losses
The bottom 10% of FBS football programs account for ~39% of all football losses
The bottom 15% of FBS football programs account for ~52.9% of all football losses

 

[preslove]

Ok, for all you who are stuck on the money argument, here are the facts from the NCAA (all figures derived from here:http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/REV_EXP_2010.pdf)

14 athletic programs in FBS reported positive net revenue in 2009.

Can you really not understand the difference between an athletics program and a football team? Jesus, it's not a hard distinction to make.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Cuban just cant stand not being in the media. He owns the Mavs and took Yahoo for a billion dollar ride in the late 90s. Woop-de-freaken-doo. One of the biggest attention whores of all time.

If hes not bitching about being denied access to NY night clubs on name recognition alone, or being sued by the Securities and Exchange Commision for insider trading, its all this pie in the sky ideas that never come to fruition. :|

 

[ElFenix]

4) How the fuck does 16 teams fix anything? Then you're right back to relying on polls and voting and other bullshit. The idea of a playoff is to get rid of the idiocy with the computers and to settle things on the field. All you're doing is creating another level of whining where somebody has to decide who is the #16 team and in and who is the #17 team and goes home. You really can't grasp the stupidity of going to a playoff while keeping the same miserable poll system that makes the playoff necessary in the first place? Really?

people are a lot less concerned about who the #16 team in a playoff is as long as the top 3-5 teams that have a legitimate argument are all in. even if the #1 team has often been a foregone conclusion under the current system, usually the #2 team hasn't been (the worst being when nebraska lost to colorado, didn't even play in the big 12 title game, but got to play sacrificial lamb to miami over oregon and colorado)

Can you really not understand the difference between an athletics program and a football team? Jesus, it's not a hard distinction to make.

yes, we all understand the difference. how is providing relevant background material inappropriate?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Sending the top 8 and getting rid of conference championship games would mean the championship teams would only be playing 1 extra game.

Sure, there'd be upset teams at #9 and maybe #10 but no where near the level of upset when the top 3 teams have the same record and are from major conferences, and it would also give the "little guys" a shot as TCU would have a chance

although the major problem with that system is that it would mean 6 of the 8 teams would be represented by only 3 conferences with the Pac10, Big10 and SEC having two teams each in the top 8 of the BCS rankings (and if we used any other poll for it, it would mean the Big 10 would have 3 teams out of 8 in the playoffs...)