Mary York called 911 on son with guns, now faces felony charges

[ch33zw1z]

I couldn't find another thread on the original incident, so here we go

Mother jailed after felony charges filed in connection with 2018 shooting at Richmond school

RICHMOND, Ind.– The mother of a teenager who took his own life after exchanging gunfire with police in 2018 at Dennis Intermediate School in Richmond now faces several felony charges. On Frid…

fox59.com

Her action saved lives, except her own child, but hey.....you gettin some felonies.

Son broke into your gun safe and held you and boyfriend hostage? Sucks for you.

 

[interchange]

Punishing tragedy is pretty awful.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Punishing tragedy is pretty awful.

This part stood out to me:

She said she was never able to get her boyfriend to take the guns out of the home. He has not been charged in the case.

They were legally the boyfriends guns it sounds like, and locked up so potentially controlled correctly under regulations, yet they levy charges against her.

In this case, it doesn't sound like they're punishing the law abiding gun owner, so guess it's a win.

 

[dank69]

Not sure why she is lying about the kid saying he wanted to kill people in front of her and other witnesses. I can see how that would push a few wrong buttons with investigators.

 

[JTsyo]

Court documents filed Friday show the shooter had been dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts. He had been checked into a program for 10 days, but York took him out because her insurance wouldn't cover the cost and she said she couldn't afford it. She did not make him take his prescribed medication, which he complained made him feel "weird."

Exchanging money for lives, the decision Americans have to make.

 

[dank69]

Exchanging money for lives, the decision Americans have to make.

Yeah, it's a mental health issue, not a gun issue. Also, not going to pay to fix the mental health issue. FYGM and the chances I get shot are pretty low.

 

[woolfe9998]

This part stood out to me:


They were legally the boyfriends guns it sounds like, and locked up so potentially controlled correctly under regulations, yet they levy charges against her.

In this case, it doesn't sound like they're punishing the law abiding gun owner, so guess it's a win.

Because under the law, the mother, not the mother's bf, has the legal duty to the child. That said, I want to know more about the history here before I could decide whether it's appropriate to charge her. I don't think it's enough merely that her boyfriend legally had guns in the house. For her to be guilty of anything here, there had to have been substantial warning signs that her son was very unstable and having guns around was like a ticking time bomb.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That will learn these people.

 

[Paratus]

This part stood out to me:


They were legally the boyfriends guns it sounds like, and locked up so potentially controlled correctly under regulations, yet they levy charges against her.

In this case, it doesn't sound like they're punishing the law abiding gun owner, so guess it's a win.

Since the boyfriend was the gun owner he was the irresponsible one for failing to adequately restrict access to his weapons. He’s the one that needs to be prosecuted.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Because under the law, the mother, not the mother's bf, has the legal duty to the child. That said, I want to know more about the history here before I could decide whether it's appropriate to charge her. I don't think it's enough merely that her boyfriend legally had guns in the house. For her to be guilty of anything here, there had to have been substantial warning signs that her son was very unstable and having guns around was like a ticking time bomb.

Sounds like he was a time bomb, and it could have been worse if she didn't alert authorities. But I guess when your own child hold you at gun point, you're left with little choice.

She didn't legally own firearms. If the child stole them from a neighbor's house would it still matter? Doubtful. Weird rules we put on this stuff. The kid broke into a gun safe(afaik), held his mom and her boyfriend at gun point, she alerts authorities of his intentions, only fatality is the potential shooter due to her phone call.

If they're trying to make an example of her, the only thing I'm taking away from it is that mental health treatment isn't taken seriously, and that if you're child needs mental health treatment you should probably lock them in a cage so they dont cause you legal trouble if they go off the rails. Catch 22, locking them up may further exacerbate their mental health problems.

I agree, a more thorough article could help clear up some questions. I want to know what the mother knew and when.

 

[woolfe9998]

Since the boyfriend was the gun owner he was the irresponsible one for failing to adequately restrict access to his weapons. He’s the one that needs to be prosecuted.

Under what law? The laws she's being charged with apply only to parents and legal guardians.

 

[Perknose]

If she had only exercised her 2a rights she could have shot her son to death herself and prevented all this subsequent . . . inconvenience. LOCK HER UP!

The sole solution to a gun tragedy is always more guns.

 

[Perknose]

We need to take a page from Stalinist Russia, wherein the families of those executed in his many purges were sent a bill for the bullet used.

So this woman, who failed to sufficiently arm herself so as to proactively slaughter her aberrant son, an obvious deviant progressive, must be made to pay for the bullets the police had to use, plus maybe have to serve as their personal handmaiden for a statutorily defined length of time, as recompense for putting them out so.

Remember, guns are never the problem. Children are.

 

[Paratus]

Under what law? The laws she's being charged with apply only to parents and legal guardians.

Sorry should have stated that’s my opinion not based on any law. Since it seems the 2nd amendment prevents any additional common sense gun laws despite “well regulated” being in there I’d like to see strict punishments for those that do commit crimes or are irresponsible with their weapons.

That way no law abiding responsible gun owners will ever be impacted.

 

[balloonshark]

More than 10 days would be a very long stay in a mental health facility in my state. They don't have enough beds so they get you in and out like a triage. I'm guessing the staff recognized he had serious issues if they wanted to keep him longer. It's a crime than his insurance wouldn't pay for a longer stay and that his family could not afford it. It's also a shame we live in a modern country where guns are everywhere you look and some of the people that have them may not have the means to afford a quality safe/locker. All of these problems can be fixed if want to fix them. At least half us do and the other half thinks were the enemy. How did we end up at this point in what we consider the greatest country on earth.

 

[interchange]

What degree of negligence should we feel justifies criminal charges? I'm not asking what the statute says but rather how people feel either in application of law or advocacy that laws be written in a particular way.

As a psychiatrist, I can certainly tell you that similar situations are quite common, and that the mom's described behavior is quite typical, although I truly don't know for certain given only a limited set of provided details only coming from media reports. I will also say that an action to kill many people from this situation is quite exceptional.

I think part of the problem is not even naivety about mental illness and mental health treatments, efficacy, and systems of care, but rather a willful fantasy that if some risk is known, getting them to the psychiatrist and on medicine is a 100% effective solution. There is so much less data on homicide much less mass homicide to consider, but even suicide being approximately 10% lifetime risk in many of our illnesses with lots and lots of data, there are very very few things which have evidence to suggest we can accurately predict or prevent suicides more than doing nothing at all. This is not to say that mental health treatment is worthless, but it is obviously not the solution to preventing these kinds of events either, should even a solution exist.

 

[interchange]

More than 10 days would be a very long stay in a mental health facility in my state. They don't have enough beds so they get you in and out like a triage. I'm guessing the staff recognized he had serious issues if they wanted to keep him longer. It's a crime than his insurance wouldn't pay for a longer stay and that his family could not afford it. It's also a shame we live in a modern country where guns are everywhere you look and some of the people that have them may not have the means to afford a quality safe/locker. All of these problems can be fixed if want to fix them. At least half us do and the other half thinks were the enemy. How did we end up at this point in what we consider the greatest country on earth.

I'm not sure what level of care they are referencing, but assuming inpatient for reference at my hospital length of stay is about 1 week on average (I'd have to look, but last I saw to my recollection we were not significantly different from local or national peers). And if someone is paying cash either up front or for voluntary stay after insurance has declined further coverage, we collect a $10k deposit and quote over $2k/day out of pocket price. A typical per diem we collect from insurance is around $1k, but I don't know how much is also collected on average from patient co-insurance responsibility, deductible, physician billing, etc. But I don't expect that to be to make too much difference. Unlike a medical hospital stay, fees aren't collected based on what interventions you do and equipment you use.

 

[woolfe9998]

What degree of negligence should we feel justifies criminal charges? I'm not asking what the statue says but rather how people feel either in application of law or advocacy that laws be written in a particular way.

As a psychiatrist, I can certainly tell you that similar situations are quite common, and that the mom's described behavior is quite typical, although I truly don't know for certain given only a limited set of provided details only coming from media reports. I will also say that an action to kill many people from this situation is quite exceptional.

I think part of the problem is not even naivety about mental illness and mental health treatments, efficacy, and systems of care, but rather a willful fantasy that if some risk is known, getting them to the psychiatrist and on medicine is a 100% effective solution. There is so much less days on homicide much less mass homicide to consider, but even suicide being approximately 10% lifetime risk in many of our illnesses with lots and lots of data, there are very very few things which have evidence to suggest we can accurately predict or prevent suicides more than doing nothing at all. This is not to say that mental health treatment is worthless, but it is obviously not the solution to preventing these kinds of events either, should even a solution exist.

Legality aside, my personal opinion is that it has to be an exceedingly clear case of ignoring obvious risks. Like the son had threatened suicide and/or homicide explicitly and in a context which makes it clear that the threats had to be taken seriously. Then she does nothing about it like taking him to a counselor and/or telling her bf to remove the guns or remove himself. It definitely wouldn't be enough that the mother merely knew the kid was depressed.

 

[Sunburn74]

Seems like a ridiculous case, though I am for setting a precedence that in general parents should pay dearly if their child uses their guns to commit crimes. However as its not a known precedent or law, I think this case is ridiculous and should immediately be laughed out of court.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

Sorry, but if you exercise the right to own guns then you accept the responsibility that comes along with it. Too often tragedy comes from a "responsible" owner not being responsible. I'm good with charging someone for not being careful with their weapons.

 

[balloonshark]

I'm not sure what level of care they are referencing, but assuming inpatient for reference at my hospital length of stay is about 1 week on average (I'd have to look, but last I saw to my recollection we were not significantly different from local or national peers). And if someone is paying cash either up front or for voluntary stay after insurance has declined further coverage, we collect a $10k deposit and quote over $2k/day out of pocket price. A typical per diem we collect from insurance is around $1k, but I don't know how much is also collected on average from patient co-insurance responsibility, deductible, physician billing, etc. But I don't expect that to be to make too much difference. Unlike a medical hospital stay, fees aren't collected based on what interventions you do and equipment you use.

I was speaking from my personal experience back in the early 2000's so I'll trust what you said. $2k a sound about right if I remember correctly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sorry, but if you exercise the right to own guns then you accept the responsibility that comes along with it. Too often tragedy comes from a "responsible" owner not being responsible. I'm good with charging someone for not being careful with their weapons.

So you disagree with charging the mother?

 

[Pohemi]

Sorry, but if you exercise the right to own guns then you accept the responsibility that comes along with it. Too often tragedy comes from a "responsible" owner not being responsible. I'm good with charging someone for not being careful with their weapons.

So you disagree with charging the mother?

I disagree with charging the mother based on the limited info presented, it sounds like the boyfriend should be held responsible in my opinion.
She had at least attempted to get him to remove the weapons from her home, possibly because of how her son had been talking? I don't know. She did more than nothing though, and the boyfriend did not comply with her wishes. That's not to say she could not have done more to force the issue with the boyfriend, but in the end...the weapon(s) should have been safely locked up and they obviously were not.
His guns. Her home and her child. Sounds like the DA might have tossed a coin on who to charge.

 

[interchange]

Seems like a ridiculous case, though I am for setting a precedence that in general parents should pay dearly if their child uses their guns to commit crimes. However as its not a known precedent or law, I think this case is ridiculous and should immediately be laughed out of court.

Firstly I very much doubt that public cases will change the behavior of parents who have at risk kids unless the number of prosecutions is very significant. Secondly I would contend that the mother of this child is already paying dearly.

 

[hal2kilo]

It seems that calling the cops, is like the last things you want to do anymore. Either end up in jail or dead.