Mass Shooting at Dark Knight Rises Premier in Aurora Colorado (12 Dead, 59 Injured)

[Don Vito Corleone]

You car owners have proven time and time again you are not responsible enough to own them. End of Story.

You are just dripping with hyperbole, there are millions of gun owners that are never going to commit a crime with their firearm.

Protip: Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns ...and knives, bats, cars, chemicals, etc, etc, etc ...

As I said before, I am a gun owner and don't support most gun control measures, but equating guns (which are designed specifically to kill or injure) to cars, bats or chemicals (which are not, and which almost always kill or injure only by accident) is really stupid. As it happens I am a knife collector, and the overwhelming majority of all knives are intended principally for routine cutting tasks (opening boxes, slicing food). Obviously there are bayonets and combat knives, but they are the exception rather than the rule - call them tanks or APCs where most knives are passenger cars. I am really not opposing you in substance, but as a rhetorical argument, I think it's silly to claim that guns are fungible with knives, cars, bats or chemicals.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

The argument of guns and ownership is drawing to a quick close. I've heard the discussions and law enforcement is VERY concerned that in the next 20-30 years, you'll just be able to print one.

Now of course that's just a simplified statement, to print one out. But it is a real, upcoming problem. Currently magazines can be printed. Not some speculation, or plans, but fully functional rifle magazines.

This is what people are doing in their free time. Imagine with crowd sourcing and 3d printers being in the price range of a couple of hundred bucks.

Just download the torrent for an AR-15 and print the thing. Need a 100 round magazine, just download it.

How do you stop something like that? It's not going to work to simply ban them. Yeah yeah, but you still have to have a barrel and bolt! Think what they'll be able to print in 20 years when this stuff is as common as a flat panel monitor. It's coming, and why law enforcement and government is concerned.

There's going to have to be a shift somewhere in how crime, mental illness and drugs are treated in the future. Simply banning firearms, even if you were able to make existing ones go "poof" into thin air, isn't going to prevent the future.

Thank you for the up to date education on the near future of guns. I was honestly completely oblivious to this because, as stated before, I neither own or am particularly fond of guns. It certainly does bring some new problems into focus.

I really wish this hadn't turned into a gun control debate, it honestly cheapens the story here and really is in poor taste....which is exactly why Romney and Obama did not mention it.

 

[Matt1970]

concrete examples, please. You sound like you're just repeating NRA myths without putting much thought into it.

A Legal fully auto AK47 in the US can be $5k-$10K
On the black market is around a grand.

A good glock is around $400
On the black market is $100 or a few rocks of crack.


Look that up if you want. Sorry, it's just a fact of life. I can see why you are thinking that a black market gun might have high price tag but there are soooo many on the streets today.

 

[alzan]

Maybe you should try following along the conversation instead of "ZOMG wud he say!!?!"

I follow the conversation just fine as I was responding to yet another one of your inane comments. Which part did I miss: the part about instituting better and more sensible gun control/regulation laws or the part about not every gun control advocate wants to take your precious guns away.

I and everyone else have already gotten the part about your propensity for asinine commentary, no matter the subject of the thread.

Your response to OneOfTheseDays' post #140

I see no reason why anyone in the United States has need for your opinion.

Free speech in this country is pathetic, and needs to be addressed.

Saying that someone else doesn't have a right to an opinion just because you don't agree with it is pretty pathetic, as was your response to my post.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

A Legal fully auto AK47 in the US can be $5k-$10K
On the black market is around a grand.

A good glock is around $400
On the black market is $100 or a few rocks of crack.


Look that up if you want. Sorry, it's just a fact of life. I can see why you are thinking that a black market gun might have high price tag but there are soooo many on the streets today.

That price would skyrocket though if it were made illegal. I'm not interjecting into the conversation, just pointing out that when something cannot be obtained legally the price skyrockets in the black market.

Again, I do wish this discussion would concentrate more on the actual NEWS story here and not so much the political discourse.

 

[Perknose]

Exactemundo. It's pretty disgusting that the gun grabbers almost seem to relish horrific incidents like this to use people's suffering to further their cause.

Congratulations! :thumbsup:

Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda and the first US citizen to be charged with treason since 1952, loves the opportunities your point of view engenders, and enthusiastically agrees with you.

 

[BladeVenom]

Again, I do wish this discussion would concentrate more on the actual NEWS story here and not so much the political discourse.

How long though till there are hard facts, and a complete report on the indecent?

Until then speculation and politics.

 

[alzan]

Attempt to put back On Topic: I'm curious as to why the investigators at Holmes' apartment haven't (as of yet) put forth the idea of entering the booby trapped apartment by cutting a hole in the roof, since his apartment is on the top floor?

Just saw on NBC that they've suspended action to get into the apartment tonight but will try tomorrow morning to put a robot into the apartment. Maybe there's tripwires on the ceiling as well but I think putting a robot through the door or window is riskier than going through the roof and ceiling.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Attempt to put back On Topic: I'm curious as to why the investigators at Holmes' apartment haven't (as of yet) put forth the idea of entering the booby trapped apartment by cutting a hole in the roof, since his apartment is on the top floor?

Just saw on NBC that they've suspended action to get into the apartment tonight but will try tomorrow morning to put a robot into the apartment. Maybe there's tripwires on the ceiling as well but I think putting a robot through the door or window is riskier than going through the roof and ceiling.

This does seem like something to consider, though obviously it would mean doing significant damage to another tenant's unit. Apparently they have evacuated not only that building but 5 other nearby buildings - obviously that is a lot of people to displace, even for a day or two. I am grateful Holmes told the authorities about the booby-traps - if not there could have been catastrophic loss of life at the apartment building.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

You're trapped in the NRA rhetoric that you've accepted without challenging or really thinking. Not too surprising.

He bought the guns from two sporting goods stores, 100% legal. If guns were more restricted, then maybe he could only have afforded one, or maybe he wouldn't have gotten such deadly instruments so easily.

You guys act like gun regulations have to work 100% or else they're a failure. Well, no. They just need to make an impact overall to be a success.

Isn't it amazing how these arguments go?

Have speed laws stopped speeding? No. Does that make then ineffective?

In a civilized safe society like ours there is no rational need to own an assault rifle.

None.

EDIT: and using the 2nd amendment as an argument isn't making your case, thats an excuse.

DOUBLE BONUS EDIT: And using "free speech" instead of "gun rights" doesn't make you clever, just lazy

 

[micrometers]

A Legal fully auto AK47 in the US can be $5k-$10K
On the black market is around a grand.

A good glock is around $400
On the black market is $100 or a few rocks of crack.


Look that up if you want. Sorry, it's just a fact of life. I can see why you are thinking that a black market gun might have high price tag but there are soooo many on the streets today.

A better way to talk about it is this: How much does a SAM anti-air missile cost?

Answer: millions. Because you cannot legally buy or own one.

 

[micrometers]

Isn't it amazing how these arguments go?

Have speed laws stopped speeding? No. Does that make then ineffective?

In a civilized safe society like ours there is no rational need to own an assault rifle.

None.

People always just repeat themselves and NRA talking points without putting much thought into it.

 

[exdeath]

Isn't it amazing how these arguments go?

Have speed laws stopped speeding? No. Does that make then ineffective?

In a civilized safe society like ours there is no rational need to own an assault rifle.

None.

I want one and I can afford one. That's all the reason you get.

I suppose you see no rational need for houses bigger than 500 sq feet, big screen TVs, or sports cars either.

 

[micrometers]

I want one and I can afford one. That's reason enough.

I suppose you see no need for houses bigger than 500 sq feet, big screen TVs, or sports cars either.

You want to go 150 MPH on the highway but can't. You know why?

because you might injure another person on the highway.

You might want to shoot your gun in the general vicinity of a school, but you can't. know why?

 

[BladeVenom]

People always just repeat themselves and NRA talking points without putting much thought into it.

People who mindlessly bash the NRA never say anything worth thinking about.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

In an effort to bring this thread back on topic I am relisting all of the news I found today, most of which is direct quotes from the news outlets, the chief of police, and other authorities:

Chris Ramos, a witness in the theater who was sitting next to a father that was shot in front of his teenage daughters, during an interview with CNN stated, "The one thing that I do want people to know, the main message I want to get across, is not to forget that, to remember the good times of life, the beautiful things, don't just remember the horrible things about life because life can be a beautiful thing, we just have to be strong and overcome the evil of this".

A poignant and wise statement from a young man probably still in shock.

James Holmes is, in fact, the suspect and the police are currently questioning him. Federal officials also state that there were no bombs in the car or the apartment of the suspect as he had claimed and had been reported.

71 shot, 12 dead, hundreds of 911 calls began to come in at 12:39am. Holmes set off 2 devices (probably tear gas or something similar) to begin the attack. He did not resist arrest, they are confident he acted alone, during the shooting in theater 9 some rounds went into adjacent theaters. He was wearing full body armor including a throat and a groin protector, ballistic leggings, helmet, etc. and a gas mask.

Apparently his apartment IS booby trapped with various incendeary and chemical devices with trip wires.

Please guys, this is news, not politics.

The police chief stated that they are not going to discuss why he did this at this time.

Jessica Ghawi, who was at the Toronto mass shooting & survived by walking out due to a feeling that something bad was about to happen, a 24 year old aspiring sports journalist was killed in this mass shooting sent out a tweet minutes before this happened:

"I can't get this odd feeling out of my chest. This empty, almost sickening feeling won't go away. I noticed this feeling when I was in the Eaton Center in Toronto just seconds before someone opened fire in the food court. An odd feeling which lead me to go outside and unknowingly out of harm's way. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around how a wierd feeling saved me from being in the middle of a deadly shooting."

"I say all the time that every moment we have to live our lives is a blessing. So often I have found myself taking it for granted. Every hug from a family member. Every laugh we share with friends. Even the times of solitude are all blessings. Every second of every day is a gift. After Saturday evening, I know I truly understand how blessed I am for each second I am given."

Prophetic words from someone who had been through this before and was about to die.

Another witness in the audience named Corbin saw a man sitting in the front right of the audience on a phone before the attack happened. This man went and opened the emergency door and seemed to be trying to direct someone to the door, remaining on the phone the entire time. Minutes later the shooter came in and began the assault.

Warner Brothers is pulling the trailer for Gangster Squad, which depicted men going into a theater and lighting up the crowd, from their movies and cancelling the Paris opening scheduled for tonight in responce to the tragedy.

He was actually covered from head to toe in ballistics armor, including his throat and groin.

Further reports indicate that Ghawi, who went by the name Jessica Redfield on air, tweeted the following after the Toronto attack:

"My receipt shows my purchase was made at 6:20pm. After that purchase I said I felt funny. It wasn't the kind of funny you feel after spending money you know you shouldn't have spent. It was almost a panicky feeling that left my chest feeling like something was missing. A feeling that was overwhelming enough to lead me to head outside in the rain to get fresh air instead of continuing back into the food court to go shopping at SportChek. The gunshots rang out at 6:23. Had I not gone outside, I would've been in the midst of gunfire."

An avid hockey enthusiast, Ghawi setup a charity to help people replace their sporting equipment after the Colorado wildfires and insisted her name not be a part of the charity so as not to be viewed as an attempt to gain favor.

The shooter, it has been confirmed, bought these gun legally at a local Bass Pro Shops over the last several months.

This is now confirmed to be the largest mass shooting in the history of America.

There is a web of tripwire and "so much circtuiry and collapsing circuits" in the suspect's house and the authorities are still trying to disarm his apartment. Holmes admitted to rigging his home with traps when apprehended in the parking lot of the movie theater.

These are the facts as we know them for now. The police chief went on to further explain that the "why did he do this" question would have to wait until the legal proceeding got underway.

I know I have been guilty of this too within this thread but I ask, for the sake of the injured and dead along with their families, that we move this discussion back onto the topic of the shooting. If someone likes they could, of course, start a gun control thread with any of the number of statements made by tasteless politicians in the past 24 hours and you guys could continue this discussion there.

Obviously I have no power to make this happen, I am just asking that we all show some respect for the tragedy and not make this a political debate.

 

[exdeath]

That price would skyrocket though if it were made illegal. I'm not interjecting into the conversation, just pointing out that when something cannot be obtained legally the price skyrockets in the black market.

Fuck off and go to hell. I already spend too much on gun stuff.

 

[xj0hnx]

Saying that someone else doesn't have a right to an opinion just because you don't agree with it is pretty pathetic, as was your response to my post.

Since your little mind can't comprehend the finer details, it was a sarcastic statement about rights.

 

[micrometers]

No, this is about guns.

You're implicitly saying that we should tolerate mass shootings like this as the price of a gun collector's fetish.

 

[xj0hnx]

People always just repeat themselves and NRA talking points without putting much thought into it.

The only person not putting any thought into anything is you, and your parroting on about NRA talking points. Jesus, get some new material.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

How long though till there are hard facts, and a complete report on the indecent?

Until then speculation and politics.

I have given you the facts as they were given to us. Now I just ask that someone go start a gun control thread so we can continue to inform people of the facts and discuss the tragedy, not the politics, of this news story.

Thank you all.

 

[exdeath]

You want to go 150 MPH on the highway but can't. You know why?

because you might injure another person on the highway.

Oh I can and have. Nobody "might" have been injured because I'm not an asshat and don't endanger other people when I do it.

 

[Retro Rob]

To change the emphasis, if not the topic, I was musing with some co-workers today about how Christopher Nolan and the other creative folks who made this movie might feel about last night's events, as well as about the commercial repercussions of this awful event.

I do not believe with one cell of my being that Nolan or anyone else involved with this movie did anything wrong or has any reason to blame himself.

While a can partially agree with you somewhat, however, people who sit here and think of gory and violent movies/scenes are actually putting ideas in people's heads. There are not directly accountable.. no, but they are contributing... indirectly.

 

[micrometers]

Oh I can and have. Nobody "might" have been injured because I'm not an asshat and don't endanger other people when I do it.

But it is illegal, isn't it? And the police do stop people who go 150 MPH, don't they? They don't tolerate excessive speeding, like we tolerate the open sale of AR15 assault rifles.

 

[xj0hnx]

No, this is about guns.

You're implicitly saying that we should tolerate mass shootings like this as the price of a gun collector's fetish.

Gun control is the liberal version of the War on Drugs/War on Terror. A gun did not walk into a movie theater and kill anyone, a psycho took a gun in and killed them, the problem isn't the gun, it is the psycho.