Mass Shooting at Dark Knight Rises Premier in Aurora Colorado (12 Dead, 59 Injured)

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BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
cost/benefit of banning the AR15 and overall making guns difficult to acquire? Pretty high. Guns are mainly hobby/fetish devices with little economic value. And with easy access to guns, people in public areas don't really have control over their fate.

Manufacturing jobs, hunting, pest control, all have serious economic benefit.

Fetish? Maybe you need to look up that word, and see what it actually means.

There's the tens of millions of unarmed people who have been murdered by government. Read the book Death by Government. Government is the leading cause of unnatural deaths. If you really want to talk about disarmament, government is where it would provide an actual benefit.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Put another way...

following 9/11, the US government set up a vast surveillance system that among other things analyzed people's flight patterns, looking for instance for one way tickets over long distances and other patterns used by the terrorists.

Why can't a system like this be in place for gun purchases? Where a central government agency can look for patterns in gun purchases, have a LEO check up on someone who has suspicious buying patterns coupled with life changes, such as dropping out of a PHD program.

Right. Now if you own a gun, and complained at McDonalds today for getting a tomato on your burger, the swat team should show up at your house. Great idea.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
Why can't a system like this be in place for gun purchases? Where a central government agency can look for patterns in gun purchases, have a LEO check up on someone who has suspicious buying patterns coupled with life changes, such as dropping out of a PHD program.

Because politicians can't be trusted. When governments start keeping track of everyone's guns it makes them easy to confiscate later. Ask anyone from the UK or Australia.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Manufacturing jobs, hunting, pest control, all have serious economic benefit.

Fetish? Maybe you need to look up that word, and see what it actually means.

There's the tens of millions of unarmed people who have been murdered by government. Read the book Death by Government. Government is the leading cause of unnatural deaths. If you really want to talk about disarmament, government is where it would provide an actual benefit.

71 shot, 12 dead at a multimillion movie premiere is a pretty big economic downer.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
it's...not true.

good reading. focus should be on limiting magazine capacity.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-20/after-aurora-gun-control-one-more-time

And that article admits it will never work. What do you do about the hundreds of millions of high capacity magazines that people already own? Do you want to go full fascist state and start searching everyone's houses.

What good is restricting mags to 10? A reload can be done in less than a second.

If you allow them to restrict magazines to 10, what's to stop them from further restrictions? How about when anti-Second Amendment politicians want to restrict it to single shot firearms?
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
The loss of human life in this one incident can objectively be valued in the hundreds of millions, which combined with other incidents in the other 364 days of the year outweighs the economic benefit gained from the manufacture and sale of guns.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
And that article admits it will never work. What do you do about the hundreds of millions of high capacity magazines that people already own? Do you want to go full fascist state and start searching everyone's houses.

What good is restricting mags to 10? A reload can be done in less than a second.

If you allow them to restrict magazines to 10, what's to stop them from further restrictions? How about when anti-Second Amendment politicians want to restrict it to single shot firearms?

reload can be done in a few seconds by someone after lots of practice, sure.

But not everyone can pull it off.

the writer says that the ideal solution is to limit magazine sizes, but that yes reality which is evident in this thread gets in the way. And reality isn't right or noble in the least, it is crass and stupid, but it is reality.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
The loss of human life in this one incident can objectively be valued in the hundreds of millions, which combined with other incidents in the other 364 days of the year outweighs the economic benefit gained from the manufacture and sale of guns.

What about the cost in lives from people not owning guns?

Mexico has tough gun control laws, and half the country is controlled by criminal cartels.

Communist countries had tough gun control laws which allowed them to murder a hundred million people.

Why not take guns away from governments and criminals first?
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
it's...not true.

good reading. focus should be on limiting magazine capacity.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-20/after-aurora-gun-control-one-more-time

Terrible article written by an uninformed fool.

What makes a rifle, or a pistol, more dangerous is ammunition capacity: the size of the magazine, not the model of the weapon. (Fully automatic machine guns are already illegal.)[

No, the magazine does not make it more dangerous, the difference between a 10 round, and a "high capacity" magazine is only 4 rounds, and the ultra high capacity magazines are not reliable, and have a greater tendency to jam, and FTF. Next is his comment that fully automatic machine guns are illegal ...no they are not. Anyone that is legally able to purchase a firearm can buy one provided you pass a background check, pay the $200 tax, and have the money, they are VERY expensive.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
reload can be done in a few seconds by someone after lots of practice, sure.

But not everyone can pull it off.

the writer says that the ideal solution is to limit magazine sizes, but that yes reality which is evident in this thread gets in the way. And reality isn't right or noble in the least, it is crass and stupid, but it is reality.

False, it doesn't take long at all to reload a handgun. Most models lock back when you fire the last round, then it's just a matter of pressing the mag release, inserting fresh mag, and pressing the slide release.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
What about the cost in lives from people not owning guns?

Mexico has tough gun control laws, and half the country is controlled by criminal cartels.

Communist countries had tough gun control laws which allowed them to murder a hundred million people.

Why not take guns away from governments and criminals first?

Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, yet they have neither the problems of the US, Mexico, or the ex-Communist nations.

Switzerland has high gun ownership, yet doesn't have the problems of the US.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, yet they have neither the problems of the US, Mexico, or the ex-Communist nations.

Switzerland has high gun ownership, yet doesn't have the problems of the US.

Great, so it's determined that guns are not the problem.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Anybody deranged or criminal is gonna flip their bird to any gun laws especially when it is downright easy to acquire them illegally like the U.S.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,383
9,281
136
Quick (hopefully non controversial) question. What sort, if any, of licence do you need to own a firearm in the states and is that requirement enforced?
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Incidents like this always make it blatantly apparent that most people know absolutely nothing about firearms. Semi-automatic becomes Rambo guns, magazine size somehow becomes a big issue, etc.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Quick (hopefully non controversial) question. What sort, if any, of licence do you need to own a firearm in the states and is that requirement enforced?

Depends on the state, as we are a republic where each member state can create its own laws as long as they don't override federal law or infringe on the Constitution. A lot of states require nothing other than a background check for felonies. Some states also limit the number of certain types of firearms that you can buy in a given time period. In general, as long as you live outside of one of the big 3 antigun states (NY, IL, CA), you just need to have a clean felony record and no recorded stays at mental institutions.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
False, it doesn't take long at all to reload a handgun. Most models lock back when you fire the last round, then it's just a matter of pressing the mag release, inserting fresh mag, and pressing the slide release.

No shit, but it takes practice to be able to quickly align things. gun rights idiots always argue about perfection, i.e. laws are never perfect, shooters always are perfect in their evasion of laws and regulations. The fact is that a 100 round clip makes it too easy to commit mass murder, and really there is no need for it. Heck, part of the fun of any machine is using its parts, like reload.

So in response, gun nuts refuse either:

1. a central surveillance of gun purchase and acquisition. If say a sheriff's deputy had knocked on his door after getting information of this quick acquisition of munitions (he bought 4 guns in the past 60 days plus 6000+ rounds of ammunition), this could have been prevented.

2. to consider limits on magazine size.

lastly, he did buy the guns in the past 60 days. And how much practice did he really get? This points more to the problem of these large magazines which have no use for self-defense or sportsmanship, really.
 

Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
81
Quick (hopefully non controversial) question. What sort, if any, of licence do you need to own a firearm in the states and is that requirement enforced?

Anyone can buy a rifle or shotgun.

You need to obtain a government-issued permit to own a pistol. In New York State it typically takes around 9 months to complete the pistol-permit application process. It also helps to know politicians or law enforcement professionals to push your application through the system. In some other states (like Florida) with relaxed gun laws it might be a quicker process.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Anyone can buy a rifle or shotgun.

You need to obtain a government-issued permit to own a pistol. In New York State it typically takes around 9 months to complete the pistol-permit application process. It also helps to know politicians or law enforcement professionals to push your application through the system. In some other states (like Florida) with relaxed gun laws it might be a quicker process.

In VA, you can walk into a store and leave with a handgun in about 20 minutes. NY is one of the more strict states.
 
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