Mass Shooting in Louisville Downtown

[Moonbeam]

Ok, usually I'm not a grammar nazi, cuz why bother. But do you mean "know" here? Just clarify...the entire question. Keep it less than 5 sentences.

I missed a comma after don’t and edited it.

But it is related to what happens today if it's still influencing your decisions and actions.

Anytime a person is motivated by unconscious feelings and acts them out, I call that being asleep. We are filled with all kinds of assumptions, unexamined beliefs, inculcated ideologies, etc, memories, many deeply buried with much armor around them to keep them from conscious awareness. Such feelings are very hard to bring to conscious awareness. Mythologically, it is the hero's journey, the slaying of inner fears projected mythologically as dragons.

But their influence on the present can take place in two ways. Most people, particularly in the West but everywhere really, are unaware they have motivations they are not consciously aware of. That is the whole reason the unconscious exists, to keep feelings one could not have survive feeling consciously and continuously as a child. We were broken psychically and we had to be to survive. The same happens in Stockholm Syndrome.

But if you are aware that you are feeling something, say feeling you are not respected at your job and you are walking around with residual self condemnation for some guilt trip laid on you as a child, becoming aware you are feeling profoundly resentful, even suicidal or homicidal, that awareness becomes an opportunity to invite self awareness. An inner dialog might go something like this. OK I feel like killing x because he sabotaged my chance of promotion by belittling some aspect of my character and got the boss to buy into it. I am experiencing rage but behind it is self pity. I am re-experiencing something from my past.

X may be an asshole laying his own issues on me, but X is not the source of my real pain, he has only triggered it. In a psychotheraputic situation this feeling could be explored chiefly by allowing oneself to feel it progressively more deeply like pealing away onion skins one by one until the onion disappears.

Ignorance leads to violence, the surrender of personal responsibility to the indulgence of the animal within. Knowledge turns an identical situation into a learning opportunity. One leads to self destruction, the other to growth. The power of knowledge is that it changes perspective and perspective changes attitude.

On the surface, I'd agree. But since it's impossible to know all outcomes, something could be solved, albeit unintentionally.

I would offer that an evolved mind should think before action, which is what I think you're going for here.

Pretty much. I am saying that an evolved mind does not trust thinking because we can think anything. An evolved mind should be aware of the limits of thinking, that thought is fear, thought is of the past, that thought creates duality and combined with imagination, all the terrors in the world. Before we could think we were real. What is the nature of that reality we have lost? Could it be the joy of being.

I believe that we are upside down to reality, that having been taught the concept of the consequences of sin, we are afraid to live. We can't trust anything because we do not trust ourselves. Trust the intuition within you that tells you life is OK. Thinking is the source of doubt. Don't believe that thought is the way out.

You can't stop thinking, that is an ego attempt, thought pretending to defeat itself. Just be aware of the problem and abandon attachment. Be kind to yourself. Thought is a knife with which we endlessly stab ourselves. It divides, compares, and criticizes. We are the source of most of our own misery.

Thanks for your post.
You can't will it to shut off

 

[eelw]

Yup guns have more rights. This weapon apparently will get auctioned off to be put back into the market. Disgusting.

 

[Moonbeam]

It’s just asinine this lack of any effort to solve this issue. Yes it will be difficult to change this gun culture but something has to be done. As the rest of the world as a case study, no guns equals no mass shootings. FULLSTOP!!!

I agree. My position is that gun banners lead to gun fanatics which means stalemate when it come to rational gun control. That will work itself out in a war of ideas all of which miss what I believe is the real issue, no cultural wisdom and emphasis on self understanding that can help people realize they do not want to know why violence happens in the first place. We are all running from an inner truth about ourselves that completely transforms when faced.

 

[brycejones]

Yup guns have more rights. This weapon apparently will get auctioned off to be put back into the market. Disgusting.

The lucky winner will have a true collector's item. Just think how valuable an actual mass murder weapon will be to some sick fuck.

 

[eelw]

Live press conference right now showing body cam. Yes the cops are heroic for charging in. But the cop doing the briefing, “They did their job and stopped anyone else from being hurt.” I’m sorry, the shooter choose to stop going after more people. He stood around for 90 seconds waiting for cops to get on scene and suicide by cop.

 

[shortylickens]

Live press conference right now showing body cam. Yes the cops are heroic for charging in. But the cop doing the briefing, “They did their job and stopped anyone else from being hurt.” I’m sorry, the shooter choose to stop going after more people. He stood around for 90 seconds waiting for cops to get on scene and suicide by cop.

You know whats really sad? This is so common it wont even get a movie of the week.
Remember the North Hollywood Shootout? That got a couple movies and some documentaries and a years worth of news.
This is happening so often we will forget his name and the victims names and the town and the bank and in a year most of us will need to be reminded it happened at all.

 

[Indus]

You know whats really sad? This is so common it wont even get a movie of the week.
Remember the North Hollywood Shootout? That got a couple movies and some documentaries and a years worth of news.
This is happening so often we will forget his name and the victims names and the town and the bank and in a year most of us will need to be reminded it happened at all.

Most of us have already forgotten the kid who shot and killed a girl in his trailer in PA and then instagrammed another girlfriend to come help and dispose of the body. It was her mom that called the police!

 

[eelw]

It’s heartbreaking the 911 call from the lady at home watching it through the conference call.

 

[iRONic]

Investigation complete. Posted in its entirely on LMPD website.

The shooter lied about his mental state to get the weapon and wrote about it in his journal.

 

[Leeea]

Investigation complete. Posted in its entirely on LMPD website.

The shooter lied about his mental state to get the weapon and wrote about it in his journal.

Well yea.

If a person is going to go murder a bunch of people, lying doesn't seem like an ethical problem for said person.



If we are going to rely on a check box on a form to stop mass murder, perhaps our system is flawed.

 

[fskimospy]

Investigation complete. Posted in its entirely on LMPD website.

The shooter lied about his mental state to get the weapon and wrote about it in his journal.

You know the situation is bad when mass shooters are calling for more gun control.

 

[Moonbeam]

Poor man didn't realize how disrespected he felt. Nobody cared to understand his feelings as a child and that gets projected on the world later in life. Nobody saved him from abuse, the state won't control guns so fuck it, lets show them, let's get even for what was done. "Let me demonstrate what it means not to care about the violence done by guns."

Too bad people don't lean how they work from a young age so it's common knowledge what causes mental illness and how to get help.

 

[Leeea]

Nobody saved him from abuse, the state won't control guns so fuck it, lets show them, let's get even for what was done.

Just another victim.

I know others see it differently, but that is the way I see it.


There are other countries that don't have young adults mass murdering every day. This is a deliberate choice we are making as a nation. To create a society that does not care about child welfare, to create a society that does not care about child healthcare, to create a society that instead fosters hatred and violence.

We just harvest what we plant.

 

[Moonbeam]

Just another victim.

I know others see it differently, but that is the way I see it.


There are other countries that don't have young adults mass murdering every day. This is a deliberate choice we are making as a nation. To create a society that does not care about child welfare, to create a society that does not care about child healthcare, to create a society that instead fosters hatred and violence.

We just harvest what we plant.

I would like to be clearer on what you are saying, I think you are expressing an agreement with my post that you quoted, because I see the shooter as a victim too, a point of view that generally speaking others see differently. I am not sure however, since the typical point of view on this forum that it is gun availability in this county that gets blamed for our high mass murder rate with the additional support for that idea coming from the fact that other countries have similar mental health problems but not the mass murder rate. But you don't specifically mention that in your post.

Personally, I do not disagree that the availability of guns in this country makes it much easier for the mentally ill to act out and that guns are an effective tool for doing so. What I disagree with is the notion that the answer to this problem is to eliminate guns from the population as if that were the real source of the problem. The real problem is the degree to which people in this country walk around in a mental state that can and does explode into violence at the drop of a hat. Our culture is sick and the price we pay for that sickness goes far far far beyond what mass shootings cost us, and that everything in our culture is designed to avoid facing that fact. Mental illness as I see it is the cause of most human misery.

We live in a dream that says the problem is always out there, an external problem we can fix, when always and in everything, the problem is our own mental state of utter lack of self awareness. How we see the world is a projection of how we feel and how we feel is profoundly sick. This is why everyone is so angry, so sad, so depressed. When you won't see the problem because of fear, the result is a state of hopelessness and all of the frenzy the avoidance of it brings. We reap what we sow because we are asleep to what we are doing.

 

[HomerJS]

Poor man didn't realize how disrespected he felt. Nobody cared to understand his feelings as a child and that gets projected on the world later in life. Nobody saved him from abuse, the state won't control guns so fuck it, lets show them, let's get even for what was done. "Let me demonstrate what it means not to care about the violence done by guns."

Too bad people don't lean how they work from a young age so it's common knowledge what causes mental illness and how to get help.

Getting to the cause of mental illness and separating the mentally ill from guns should be treated as mutually exclusive.

Also I’ve been screaming till I’m purple in the face there needs to be a mental competency test before a gun purchase is allowed.

 

[Moonbeam]

Getting to the cause of mental illness and separating the mentally ill from guns should be treated as mutually exclusive.

Also I’ve been screaming till I’m purple in the face there needs to be a mental competency test before a gun purchase is allowed.

There are two kinds of mental illness that we need to consider. One is the kind that everybody knows about and agrees possessors of which should not be allowed to have guns. These would be any who have acted out violently against others in the past or are threatening to do so today. These are recognizable my most people simply via common sense. The kind of mental illness I am talking about is far far less obvious. You and I would be included in that, people who have adjusted to living in a culture that is based on competitiveness, the capacity to earn money for a living. This creates avarice and envy or a sense of outsidedness or failure or fear of the loss of status all of which creates human misery or sadistic pleasure and narcissism.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There are two kinds of mental illness that we need to consider. One is the kind that everybody knows about and agrees possessors of which should not be allowed to have guns. These would be any who have acted out violently against others in the past or are threatening to do so today. These are recognizable my most people simply via common sense. The kind of mental illness I am talking about is far far less obvious. You and I would be included in that, people who have adjusted to living in a culture that is based on competitiveness, the capacity to earn money for a living. This creates avarice and envy or a sense of outsidedness or failure or fear of the loss of status all of which creates human misery or sadistic pleasure and narcissism.

For this reasoning, which I agree with, restricting access to guns and limiting what average citizens can own is a piece to the puzzle. The solution is both managing people and guns

 

[Moonbeam]

For this reasoning, which I agree with, restricting access to guns and limiting what average citizens can own is a piece to the puzzle. The solution is both managing people and guns

The issue is what does proper management of people consist of. Do we ban guns. Do we limit the types of guns people can legally own, do we eliminate private gun sales and require meaningful background checks, what? You and I may differ on what is reasonable but I think where I may differ from you the most is in my attitude to controlling people. That is always about being ones brother's keeper, knowing that you know better than they do what is good for them. That to my mind is a dangerous form of thinking. What I would like to see is a culture devoted to the self education of people to free them of psychologically damaging emotional needs, spiritually advanced understanding of human nature such that people grow up with the internal intention and capacity to manage themselves. There are people around who care for others simply because they care for themselves. Their self respect is worth more than anything else and are beyond temptation. The only really good people are those that want to be not those who fear risking punishment. I believe that is what we were born to become and got fucked along the way.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The issue is what does proper management of people consist of. Do we ban guns. Do we limit the types of guns people can legally own, do we eliminate private gun sales and require meaningful background checks, what? You and I may differ on what is reasonable but I think where I may differ from you the most is in my attitude to controlling people. That is always about being ones brother's keeper, knowing that you know better than they do what is good for them. That to my mind is a dangerous form of thinking. What I would like to see is a culture devoted to the self education of people to free them of psychologically damaging emotional needs, spiritually advanced understanding of human nature such that people grow up with the internal intention and capacity to manage themselves. There are people around who care for others simply because they care for themselves. Their self respect is worth more than anything else and are beyond temptation. The only really good people are those that want to be not those who fear risking punishment. I believe that is what we were born to become and got fucked along the way.

It not about individuals, it’s about society as a whole. The rugged individualism that Americans cling to is what makes us take topics personally.

And in fact, people would consider what you would want to see a dangerous form of thinking as well.

Perspective is what makes a difference, including when reviewing damaged people and where they came from. And how we can prevent damaged people from damaging more people.

 

[Leeea]

It not about individuals, it’s about society as a whole. The rugged individualism that Americans cling to is what makes us take topics personally.

And in fact, people would consider what you would want to see a dangerous form of thinking as well.

Perspective is what makes a difference, including when reviewing damaged people and where they came from. And how we can prevent damaged people from damaging more people.

Thing is, everyone is a damaged person.


One thing Moonbeam has right, as soon as a person studies the mind, they start to see untreated mental health symptoms everywhere.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Thing is, everyone is a damaged person.


One thing Moonbeam has right, as soon as a person studies the mind, they start to see untreated mental health symptoms everywhere.

I haven’t disagreed with that piece. If everyone damaged to the point where nobody can handle the responsibility, then removing guns altogether is the answer. I don’t think that’s the case, so solutions that meet in middle are required. It makes people uncomfortable, but we have to draw the line somewhere. There’s a reason that less access to guns means less gun deaths. So restricting access to guns, the type of guns, that’s the options.

However, you have a big part of our specific country that loves their guns more than life, and they’ve been convinced that guns == freedom, and freedom for themselves is greater than any one persons life (or many lives). It seems like there’s no limit to their acceptable losses.

But one thing seems to be for sure, doing nothing will mean more extensively damaged people, which translates into more gun deaths.

 

[Leeea]

I haven’t disagreed with that piece. If everyone damaged to the point where nobody can handle the responsibility, then removing guns altogether is the answer. I don’t think that’s the case, so solutions that meet in middle are required. It makes people uncomfortable, but we have to draw the line somewhere. There’s a reason that less access to guns means less gun deaths. So restricting access to guns, the type of guns, that’s the options.

However, you have a big part of our specific country that loves their guns more than life, and they’ve been convinced that guns == freedom, and freedom for themselves is greater than any one persons life (or many lives). It seems like there’s no limit to their acceptable losses.

But one thing seems to be for sure, doing nothing will mean more extensively damaged people, which translates into more gun deaths.

Perhaps today. But every year there is a part of this country that turns 18 whose experience with firearms is monthly drills preparing to hide while an insane person hunts them down with a firearm. From kindergarten to 12th grade. Think about that for a moment. What that does to a child's mind, constantly being prepared to be hunted down for simply existing.


When it swings, it will swing hard and without compromise. After all, no compromise is being made now.


I suspect if they truly will only allow their firearm to be taken from their cold dead hands, they will be given that opportunity within 30 years. Children who lived in terror simply may prioritize their children not living in terror over the lives of those who decide to hold out. They are likely to not have a lot of mercy about it either.

 

[Moonbeam]

I haven’t disagreed with that piece. If everyone damaged to the point where nobody can handle the responsibility, then removing guns altogether is the answer. I don’t think that’s the case, so solutions that meet in middle are required. It makes people uncomfortable, but we have to draw the line somewhere. There’s a reason that less access to guns means less gun deaths. So restricting access to guns, the type of guns, that’s the options.

However, you have a big part of our specific country that loves their guns more than life, and they’ve been convinced that guns == freedom, and freedom for themselves is greater than any one persons life (or many lives). It seems like there’s no limit to their acceptable losses.

But one thing seems to be for sure, doing nothing will mean more extensively damaged people, which translates into more gun deaths.

It is the right of the people to institute government they feel best suits them. If the constitution is changed to outlaw gun ownership and people turn in their guns there will be less mass gun death. If real education took place from childhood onward that creates real self understanding and the retention of natural empathy into adulthood, it would make no difference at all how many guns were out there. Both solutions can be pursued, one with less gun deaths and the other to a massive increase in human welfare, happiness, and joy in being. My opinion.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It is the right of the people to institute government they feel best suits them. If the constitution is changed to outlaw gun ownership and people turn in their guns there will be less mass gun death. If real education took place from childhood onward that creates real self understanding and the retention of natural empathy into adulthood, it would make no difference at all how many guns were out there. Both solutions can be pursued, one with less gun deaths and the other to a massive increase in human welfare, happiness, and joy in being. My opinion.

The real education you’re describing, IMO, is a pipe dream. There’s millions of people taught to hate themselves from day 1, and much of that is done under the tenets of religion. So while we can hope for the best possible scenario, ie a complete overhaul of our social structure, which would be great, I think that just means our country has ended as we know it. In other words, that’s a long long way down the road and won’t be here without revolution .

 

[ch33zw1z]

Perhaps today. But every year there is a part of this country that turns 18 whose experience with firearms is monthly drills preparing to hide while an insane person hunts them down with a firearm. From kindergarten to 12th grade. Think about that for a moment. What that does to a child's mind, constantly being prepared to be hunted down for simply existing.


When it swings, it will swing hard and without compromise. After all, no compromise is being made now.


I suspect if they truly will only allow their firearm to be taken from their cold dead hands, they will be given that opportunity within 30 years. Children who lived in terror simply may prioritize their children not living in terror over the lives of those who decide to hold out. They are likely to not have a lot of mercy about it either.

I share your sentiment, and wish it wasn’t the case, but here we are