SNAP off to the lurker thread to brag.I have been following this horrific act in this forum, in the media and on other forums fairly diligently. There seems to be a number of unanswered questions, and about 15 conspiracy theories for each. The discussion here appears to me to be relatively subdued and tame, not that I am a fan of conspiracy theories, but there seems to be a number of things that just don't jive. Granted, this a strange guy doing a strange thing, but still.
First, the information released has been exceptionally sparse. We had 911 and Boston Marathon CCTV images relatively quickly. Here we have nothing. We are told that he acted alone and he is dead, so why the blackout? It is near guaranteed that there will be some things withheld, but there has be almost nothing.
Second, the assertion that he had an escape plan, but cannot be told anything further. If the perp is dead and there is no one else of interest, why conceal that?
Third, why a firearm count of 23 instead of three? He was obviously intelligent and meticulous. Why risk the whole operation? If he did have an escape plan, it would be interesting to see the plan for quickly removing those firearms. Presumably, at least one of them would be traceable to him.
Forth, given the amount of ammo this guy went through, he should have been "ankle deep in brass". Not literally of course, but the crime scene does not appear like that at all.
Lastly, the entire story of the encounter with the security guard seems off:
Initially he was the hero who ran up there, got shot, and compelled the gunman to off himself. A week later he is there before the shooting, perhaps triggering the beginning of the shooting rather than ending it. Two hundred rounds fired and he has one non life threatening injury. Just that event should have dispensed a lot of brass.
He is the only witness we know of. Why have we not seen him 100 times on video?
How can someone shoot 200 rifle rounds through his hotel room door and yet we have not heard a peep from anyone on thee same floor with some type of damage in their room, or at least having heard something?
I don't have my own conspiracy theory, in part because there is so little information available. The strange thing is that each bit of information seems to be questionable in one way or another.
I have been following this horrific act in this forum, in the media and on other forums fairly diligently. There seems to be a number of unanswered questions, and about 15 conspiracy theories for each. The discussion here appears to me to be relatively subdued and tame, not that I am a fan of conspiracy theories, but there seems to be a number of things that just don't jive. Granted, this a strange guy doing a strange thing, but still.
First, the information released has been exceptionally sparse. We had 911 and Boston Marathon CCTV images relatively quickly. Here we have nothing. We are told that he acted alone and he is dead, so why the blackout? It is near guaranteed that there will be some things withheld, but there has be almost nothing.
Second, the assertion that he had an escape plan, but cannot be told anything further. If the perp is dead and there is no one else of interest, why conceal that?
Third, why a firearm count of 23 instead of three? He was obviously intelligent and meticulous. Why risk the whole operation? If he did have an escape plan, it would be interesting to see the plan for quickly removing those firearms. Presumably, at least one of them would be traceable to him.
Forth, given the amount of ammo this guy went through, he should have been "ankle deep in brass". Not literally of course, but the crime scene does not appear like that at all.
Lastly, the entire story of the encounter with the security guard seems off:
Initially he was the hero who ran up there, got shot, and compelled the gunman to off himself. A week later he is there before the shooting, perhaps triggering the beginning of the shooting rather than ending it. Two hundred rounds fired and he has one non life threatening injury. Just that event should have dispensed a lot of brass.
He is the only witness we know of. Why have we not seen him 100 times on video?
How can someone shoot 200 rifle rounds through his hotel room door and yet we have not heard a peep from anyone on thee same floor with some type of damage in their room, or at least having heard something?
I don't have my own conspiracy theory, in part because there is so little information available. The strange thing is that each bit of information seems to be questionable in one way or another.
SNAP off to the lurker thread to brag.
What is really baffling to me is that we now know that he shot the security guard BEFORE he opened fire on the crowd. You would think that the police dispatch would have put 1 and 1 together when they got the 911 call about the security officer being shot in the Mandalay Bay hotel and the shooting coming from the same area.
As far as the amount of guns, I doubt we will ever know but it still makes no sense to me. It just greatly increased his risk while, at least from what I can figure, did nothing to help his "mission". They did find a few pounds of ammonium nitrate in his car which can be used to make an explosive but in and of itself is not along with some tannerite which is a bianary explosive that you can purchase legally. I haven't read anything that said if it was mixed or not. As far as explosives go tannerite isn't very powerful and is pretty difficult to set off, usually used in exploding rifle targets. I guess he could have rigged some sort of zip gun type contraption that fired a rifle round into it.
I have bump fired before and I don't think you really understand how they work. Yes, they absolutely positively allowed him to get off a LOT more rounds in less time. However they don't "manage recoil" or anything like that. The recoil is the same as if you were firing normally and managing the trigger while you are bump firing is basically just keeping your finger in the same spot while you push the gun forward with the other hand. Pulling the gun forward causes your finger to pull the trigger, the gun recoils backward resetting the trigger, you never stopped pushing forward so the gun moves forward again causing your finger to pull the trigger, rinse wash and repeat. The down side is it is horribly inaccurate to bump fire but you don't lose control of the weapon because you have a solid grip on the forward part of the gun and if you lose that grip the gun stops firing which is very different from something like an uzi. Unfortunately in this case accuracy wasn't a necessity because he was firing into a huge crowd.
You can accomplish the same thing with a regular semi-auto and a belt loop, a pair of overalls, or basically any piece of clothing that will let you anchor your trigger hand which is how it was done before bump stocks came along. Regardless, they should be regulated at the very least if not outright banned at this point. What was once a niche product that relatively few people knew even existed is now well known to every gang banger or crazy who is more than happy to use the "pray and spray" method.
As Darwin so well described, you have no idea how a bump stock works. All it does is semi-automate the action of repetitively pulling the trigger so that instead of moving your finger backward and forward, you instead move the trigger backward and forward. They are fun for satisfying mag dumps but serve no real purpose.
I have been following this horrific act in this forum, in the media and on other forums fairly diligently. There seems to be a number of unanswered questions, and about 15 conspiracy theories for each. The discussion here appears to me to be relatively subdued and tame, not that I am a fan of conspiracy theories, but there seems to be a number of things that just don't jive. Granted, this a strange guy doing a strange thing, but still.
First, the information released has been exceptionally sparse. We had 911 and Boston Marathon CCTV images relatively quickly. Here we have nothing. We are told that he acted alone and he is dead, so why the blackout? It is near guaranteed that there will be some things withheld, but there has be almost nothing.
Second, the assertion that he had an escape plan, but cannot be told anything further. If the perp is dead and there is no one else of interest, why conceal that?
Third, why a firearm count of 23 instead of three? He was obviously intelligent and meticulous. Why risk the whole operation? If he did have an escape plan, it would be interesting to see the plan for quickly removing those firearms. Presumably, at least one of them would be traceable to him.
Forth, given the amount of ammo this guy went through, he should have been "ankle deep in brass". Not literally of course, but the crime scene does not appear like that at all.
Lastly, the entire story of the encounter with the security guard seems off:
Initially he was the hero who ran up there, got shot, and compelled the gunman to off himself. A week later he is there before the shooting, perhaps triggering the beginning of the shooting rather than ending it. Two hundred rounds fired and he has one non life threatening injury. Just that event should have dispensed a lot of brass.
He is the only witness we know of. Why have we not seen him 100 times on video?
How can someone shoot 200 rifle rounds through his hotel room door and yet we have not heard a peep from anyone on thee same floor with some type of damage in their room, or at least having heard something?
I don't have my own conspiracy theory, in part because there is so little information available. The strange thing is that each bit of information seems to be questionable in one way or another.
That isn't a bad idea. I carry in a hip holster so the x-ray wouldn't be needed to see my gun. Some folks are not as forthright about what they have though.I'm totally picturing this now.
*DEDEDEDEDEDEDE*
*knock knock* "Room service"
*puts gun down to answer door*
"One large pizza sir"
"oh thanks!, here's your tip"
*gets back to shooting*
*CLICK* (clip change) *DEDEDEDEDEDEDE*
Seriously though, hopefully the hotel is not blamed for any of this, like, you can't exactly be in 100% control of what your customers are doing in their rooms. Not their fault really that this happened. It's not like he walked in there holding a bunch of guns, I'd imagine he had them in luggage and came in looking like a regular customer. Are hotels going to be expected to Xray luggage now? lol
I think the conspiracy theories might be the reason why they've been more tight lipped. Mass/spree shootings have revealed there's some really fucking terrible people. In fact, for the people that have said "why aren't we talking about all the victims and put their names out there constantly instead of the perpetrators?" Well because when we've done that, those peoples' families have, due to those terrible people, experience vile harassment.
I think that assertion is just speculation by the police. They can't make sense of anything, and are just thinking that he didn't seem to have a reason to be suicidal. Its possible the stuff in the car was just because he had not gotten around to getting it up to the room before something initiated his rampage. From what I've gathered, it appears that there isn't a note or anything that explicitly stated he was planning on escape.
No one knows. Like I posited to Darwin333, maybe that was an attempt to get caught? He knew something was wrong mentally but couldn't seem to stop the inertia, so just tried to do something to try and make it more likely to get caught and prevent him from bringing it to fruition. Unfortunately he didn't get caught before something initiated him to act.
Another possible reason for tightening up information is that they're making it so that people that might contact them, claiming either some role or witness, can verify information. There is an actual phenomena, where people will call in and claim involvement or to have information about, but its just people making shit up (for various reasons, some are trolls, some are people wanting to be involved, and some, well we've seen even people that harassed victims and families of other victims that they don't know why they were doing it). This lets them weed out people that learn details through the media (which has caused problems in the past, where someone was able to get a bunch of information so it seemed like they were involved, but they look into it and they couldn't have; it screws with the investigation and takes resources away from legitimate concerns).
With the changing stories, there seems to be some level of CYA (I have a longtime friend that is a cop and literally that is the first thing they consider immediately in the aftermath of an incident, not even joking, posts on Facebook between him and other cops, the first thing they say is CYA, and then they ask if they're alright, that's how ingrained it is). Not shocking, since with the hotel evidence of negligence potentially will put them at massive liability risk (or make it easier to hit them over it), and police obviously would not like to be seen as having a poor response to a situation like this. However, their mixed information doesn't make them look good, and there's still a lot they haven't fully revealed. Which I'm not even going to say is necessarily wrong/bad at this point (I could see them doing it deliberately in order to try to keep rampant conspiracy theory garbage), but the changing stories so far doesn't look good.
You're right, I did misunderstand and corrected my post. Thank you for not being dismissive and actually working to explain. I know some gun nuts, and think I got confused or misconstrued based on things they'd said. I don't disagree that you can still fire off a lot and cause a lot of damage without one, I just disagree that it had a negligible impact as I do believe it helped him get more rounds off in the initial shooting, which increased the damage due to him getting more rounds off. As the crowd dispersed it would work against him, since there wouldn't just be a mass of people clumped together.
How many victims qualify as a "mass" shooting?Hey ATOT can we get a 'X days since last mass shooting' counter?
How many victims qualify as a "mass" shooting?
Cuz if its low enough then pretty much every time some drug dealers shoot at each other you've gotta reset the counter.
Well...I mean, it's a not a number, it's intent. A kid walking in and gunning down his classmates isn't the same thing as a robbery, gang war, drug deal gone bad or even some dad going nuts and killing his family in a murder suicide..in my mind. Those are much more family friendly and less random.
They have cameras all over that hotel, so there is exact timeline footage somewhere. Sounds to me like the hotel itself is trying to cover something up because they screwed up. Casino's aren't exactly known for being honest.
66 posts in 11 years.I'm sorry, I don't have a clue what this means.
lolol I believe not. Lighten up, Francis, it's just banter.Thanks, I believe I understand now. You really are not addressing the content of my posts, but the fact that there are so few of them. With your 32K eloquent posts, you have earned the right to tell me not to post in this thread?
Self proclaimed moderator status? Good luck with that.
Wow, this is starting to get weird.
I had no idea they were claiming that the shooter fired 200 rounds through the door 5 minutes before firing into the crowd when the security guard got shot. If that WAS the case then how the hell did it take them that long to figure out exactly where the shots were coming from? You'd have a 911 call about automatic gunfire from room 135 on floor 34 of the Mandalay Bay hitting a security guard and then reports of automatic gunfire coming from the Mandalay Bay into the crowd. You'd think at least one asshole would have said: "you know what, I bet those two are related!". If he really did fire 200 rounds when he shot the security guard 5 minutes before he opened up on the crowd there should have already been a whole flock of cops on the way to his room. I've seen em send 5-6 cops over a domestic dispute involving 2 people where no weapons of any kind were reported, 200 shots would have 30 cops on the way.
But now the hotel is changing even that timeline so now we have a 3rd timeline about when the security guard got shot and he just bolted from interviews. If I had to guess it was at the "request" of the hotel's lawyers, especially since they just changed the timeline. Granted there are other possibilities like the guy just doesn't want to deal with the press, being interviewed by 5 national news corps is pretty intimidating and the questions they are bound to ask like "do you think you could have done anything different to stop the worst mass shooting in the US" are bound to hit home pretty hard.
Initially he was the hero who ran up there, got shot, and compelled the gunman to off himself. A week later he is there before the shooting, perhaps triggering the beginning of the shooting rather than ending it. Two hundred rounds fired and he has one non life threatening injury. Just that event should have dispensed a lot of brass.
He is the only witness we know of. Why have we not seen him 100 times on video?
How can someone shoot 200 rifle rounds through his hotel room door and yet we have not heard a peep from anyone on thee same floor with some type of damage in their room, or at least having heard something?