Massive Fps Drops

[DeathBestowerX]

1. Effectively, there will not be a bottle-neck if each component is capable of relaying data at precisely (or approximately, for argument's sake) the same rate every other component is able to process it at, but a balanced system as such isn't likely to exist, simply because different software are optimized to take more or less advantage of different components. You can identify these optimization differences between games, but to be clear, for instance, if you're editing video, the CPU plays a more relevant role than the GPU; the opposite is true for gaming at high resolutions (1080p and above), where a more powerful GPU affects the image quality and frames-per-second, for instance, more than a CPU does.



2. V-sync helps with a bottleneck because it limits the amount of frames-per-second displayed (dependent on the refresh rate of the monitor, as you correctly point out), which in turn relieves the gas throttle on the GPU and allows it to work at a lower .

Consider now a monitor with a refresh rate at 60 Hz and a CPU that doesn't limit the GPU: the former has a comfortable data-processing clearance over the latter, simply put. Without v-sync on, the GPU will limit the system and the amount of FPS displayed are on average 76, to exemplify. V-sync is turned on and now, the amount of frames being requested rolls down to 60. At this point, the GPU still has an average clearance of 16 frames-per-second, which means it no longer is a limiting factor where maximum FPS are concerned. In short, v-sync gets to be the bottle-neck, relaying the GPU.

Note: This doesn't have much of an impact, if any, on minimum FPS, which will be similar to v-sync-disabled values. The average will therefore be lower (with v-sync on), given that maximum FPS are limited, but as stated above, the limitation is the feature, not the GPU, which is why the bottle-neck is alleviated.



3. At this point I reckon I've elaborated sufficiently for you to solve your proposed problem above, but given that you'll be the judge of that, I'll add that as a rule, you address the bottle-neck by ameliorating (over-clock'ing) or upgrading the least powerful component, which in your particular case would be the CPU. Per my analogy, if you were to replace the HD 5770 with a less powerful GPU, then whatever limitations the CPU was causing, would still persist. If any, you would be forced to lower the visual settings and the GPU would then become the limitation; otherwise, no difference whatsoever.

JD

Hello friends, been quite a while; I have been studying for my CompTIA A+ certification, so I haven’t had much time to post. Thank you for your patience.




1. Okay thank you, I believe I understand this clearly now; so, for the most part a bottle-neck will always exist due to different hardware specifications and also due to the way that software sporadically accesses random components at different data rates?


Also, you are stating there are ways to make the bottle-neck not as noticeable such as below (vsync), am I correct?



2. So, in short: It allows for more processing room (GPU), which alleviates bottle-neck issues because it doesn't have a hardware limitation (instead room to breathe) and in turn makes data transfer more synchronous; am I correct?


3. I believe I am starting to understand this more clearly, I was under the impression recently that a bottle-neck just meant that I didn't meet the maximum system requirements for certain components; so I thought that was why I needed to upgrade my CPU (possible limiting factor), but it seems there is more to this: always a bottle-neck, software is generally a cause along with hardware sending different data speeds. This is all a bit confusing, but I think I finally understand.


Ah, another note: Due to an error that occurred after an install, I decided to reboot my PC; as we both suspected CCC was able to become fully active again, I will note however: (capitalized for all having similar issues) I DID NOT INSTALL ANY OTHER DRIVERS AFTER THE FORMAT AND RE-INSTALLATION PROCESS, I ALMOST INSTANTLY INSTALLED THE CATALYST CONTROL CENTER FOR MY GPU AND NOW EVERY OPTION IS AVAILABLE.


Thank you for your time friends and here’s to hoping for the best; tax time is around the corner and there is still a few of my CPU’s available on the market. I must say the CPU seems quite amazing with the L3 cache that I have just recently learned about; I am very excited about this upgrade.


Until next time friends.

 

[John Dime]

Hello friends, been quite a while; I have been studying for my CompTIA A+ certification, so I haven’t had much time to post. Thank you for your patience.

So it has! Good to know and please keep us posted as to how you progress.

Okay thank you, I believe I understand this clearly now; so, for the most part a bottle-neck will always exist due to different hardware specifications and also due to the way that software sporadically accesses random components at different data rates?

You didn't incur an error, but you proposed, with the latter part of your question, something that I had not specifically mentioned and would rather supplement with a different approach. That is, a bottle-neck does indeed take place under the circumstances brought about, but the sporadic accessing of random components at different data rates, by software, and mind you, this addendum is merely to serve the purpose of clarification, albeit conceivable (for which I included that you did not incur an error, from my standpoint), could more appealingly give place to something along the lines of: software specifically optimized to take advantage of a certain component, in detriment of other(s), does so, culminating on a system bottle-neck, seeing as said component is more highly stressed than others.

You will excuse my note, I hope, but I merely intend to bring common terms and analogies to the table, so we narrow whatever tools we are using to convey questions and answers.

Also, you are stating there are ways to make the bottle-neck not as noticeable such as below (vsync), am I correct?

Indeed it is so, when the GPU is not the culprit, for this is only relevant when the GPU is able to surpass the FPS cap v-sync implements in the first place. In other words, if a GPU isn't capable of rendering more than 60 frames-per-second, assuming that this is our v-sync-implemented cap, then it is the culprit and the feature in question will not help you obtain higher FPS and will not help towards alleviating an existing bottle-neck. It may aid to avoid screen-tearing, but your actual FPS, minimum, maximum and average, will be the same.

So, in short: It allows for more processing room (GPU), which alleviates bottle-neck issues because it doesn't have a hardware limitation (instead room to breathe) and in turn makes data transfer more synchronous; am I correct?

Well put; particularly making justice to the in short expression, which I seldom serve.

I believe I am starting to understand this more clearly, I was under the impression recently that a bottle-neck just meant that I didn't meet the maximum system requirements for certain components; so I thought that was why I needed to upgrade my CPU (possible limiting factor), but it seems there is more to this: always a bottle-neck, software is generally a cause along with hardware sending different data speeds. This is all a bit confusing, but I think I finally understand.

There is always a bottle-neck, but it's no longer relevant past a certain point. Where games are concerned, on a 60 Hz screen, FPS do not matter past the 60-per-second mark. As long as your system manages acceptable values, meaning something that won't make you sick from staring at the screen, then you're set.

Ah, another note: Due to an error that occurred after an install, I decided to reboot my PC; as we both suspected CCC was able to become fully active again, I will note however: (capitalized for all having similar issues) I DID NOT INSTALL ANY OTHER DRIVERS AFTER THE FORMAT AND RE-INSTALLATION PROCESS, I ALMOST INSTANTLY INSTALLED THE CATALYST CONTROL CENTER FOR MY GPU AND NOW EVERY OPTION IS AVAILABLE.

Makes sense. Furthermore, if your current drivers work well, there's no viable justification to update them. Newer doesn't necessarily mean better.

Thank you for your time friends and here’s to hoping for the best; tax time is around the corner and there is still a few of my CPU’s available on the market. I must say the CPU seems quite amazing with the L3 cache that I have just recently learned about; I am very excited about this upgrade.


Until next time friends.

Something else to look forward to! Please let us know more once you have installed the processor.

Until next time, amigo.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

Hey friends, I apologize but I won't be able to review and respond just yet. I appreciate your patience.

As a side note I will say that after my re-install of Windows 7 Ultimate I had an overheating issue that I couldn't seem to figure out; I had removed a nickle that I had found in the motherboard and air sprayed the inside, neither helped.

So I thought perhaps drivers; upon updating nothing really changed dramatically. This is the funny part: I had re-installed FRAPS and either failed to disable the movie capture key or the program itself overwrote my first setting. So regardless of the fact that I had noticed the change in previous in-game movie recording, I dismissed that it was the reason. After disabling the capture key GameBooster stated much better temperatures. On top of that I had noticed my FPS dropping to about half of its running FPS rate; I recalled when I started having the problems and noticed that inside of FRAPS, in the local drive where it was installed, lied a fairly large group of movie files :hmm:. In this group of files I located one that was the exact point of my FPS dropping; this confirmed FRAPS movie capture key to be the issue. Ah, I felt I should log this for other readers, as even the simplest of things could be an issue.

These issues were amonst a few others such as missing icons in the taskbar (which I fixed by re-installing the software into a separate directory under a separate folder name (or path.)(up sized for others who have been having the same issues) So hopefully you'll forgive me for my tardiness :biggrin:.

And a quick update non-related(Study related): I have studied differences in USB formats, CPUs, and learned a bit more about BIOS; a lot of the material I am familiar with, but it has been interesting.

 

[DeathBestowerX]

Hey friends, I apologize for not responding, but I have some great news: The processor is on the way now
I still would love to respond to your last post John Dime, I just have had such a hard time getting a second to sit down; reading lately has even been difficult.
I'm still studying and actually had a very important question for you two:

I screwed up and didn't purchase a fan- ugh - I couldn't find one until after I already purchased the CPU; do you think that this fan made for a 65w TDP, would also work for my new CPU of 95w TDP? Would I be able to alter the fan speed to an appropriate level ; I believe I was able to do this at one point. EDIT: Just checked BIOS for fan speed options-nothing, I believe I was recalling my experiences with RadeonPro for my GPU fan speeds. Any ideas my technological brothers?

Hopefully, I can respond to your last post soon; I will try to respond before I install my processor.

Thank you so much for your help friends, you have been great.

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1. So it has! Good to know and please keep us posted as to how you progress.



2. You didn't incur an error, but you proposed, with the latter part of your question, something that I had not specifically mentioned and would rather supplement with a different approach. That is, a bottle-neck does indeed take place under the circumstances brought about, but the sporadic accessing of random components at different data rates, by software, and mind you, this addendum is merely to serve the purpose of clarification, albeit conceivable (for which I included that you did not incur an error, from my standpoint), could more appealingly give place to something along the lines of: software specifically optimized to take advantage of a certain component, in detriment of other(s), does so, culminating on a system bottle-neck, seeing as said component is more highly stressed than others.

You will excuse my note, I hope, but I merely intend to bring common terms and analogies to the table, so we narrow whatever tools we are using to convey questions and answers.



3. Indeed it is so, when the GPU is not the culprit, for this is only relevant when the GPU is able to surpass the FPS cap v-sync implements in the first place. In other words, if a GPU isn't capable of rendering more than 60 frames-per-second, assuming that this is our v-sync-implemented cap, then it is the culprit and the feature in question will not help you obtain higher FPS and will not help towards alleviating an existing bottle-neck. It may aid to avoid screen-tearing, but your actual FPS, minimum, maximum and average, will be the same.



4. Well put; particularly making justice to the in short expression, which I seldom serve.



5. There is always a bottle-neck, but it's no longer relevant past a certain point. Where games are concerned, on a 60 Hz screen, FPS do not matter past the 60-per-second mark. As long as your system manages acceptable values, meaning something that won't make you sick from staring at the screen, then you're set.



6. Makes sense. Furthermore, if your current drivers work well, there's no viable justification to update them. Newer doesn't necessiraly mean better.



7. Something else to look forward to! Please let us know more once you have installed the processor.

Until next time, amigo.

JD

1. [FONT=&quot]I definitely will keep you updated, so far I have covered most of the hardware section of my video material; I still feel like I don’t know enough though, as I have so many questions and am unsure of certain upgrade aspects such as the TDP and Watts (even though we have covered this already), I’ve already forgotten. Good to know I can just go back over this material and other sources of information to recall easier; thank you for that. I am currently waiting for two Comptia A+ books with CD/DVDs that should aid me in my journey for knowledge; loaded with pretests and the like.[/FONT]


2
[FONT=&quot]Ok thank you very much for that better clarification; a question though: If an audio card was attached to a separate interface than the GPU, could audio cause a[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]bottleneck?[/FONT]

3
[FONT=&quot]Ok so a CPU can be the bottleneck if it can’t produce 60 fps or whatever is equal to the GPU and vice versa correct?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Also, I know a decent amount about Vsync, but this question has always confused me: If Vsync syncs it to 60 fps with all factors, CPU,GPU, and Monitor Frequency,(I’m not completely confident about this statement) I notice it doesn’t tear; but what about when it drops below, how does it still manage the tearing?[/FONT]
4.
[FONT=&quot]That’s fine with me, I prefer thorough when learning.


5.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Awesome, finally understanding. Funny thing though, I would like to see some 120 FPS gameplay someday lol[/FONT]
6.
[FONT=&quot]Very True my friend, on both subjects: Don’t fix it if it isn’t broken is a fairly accurate statement haha; and I’m into ancient technology, as little by little I become ancient myself haha, but with age comes wisdom


7.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I plan on letting you know when it gets here haha, this computer is my baby [/FONT]

 

[John Dime]

Hey friends, I apologize for not responding, but I have some great news: The processor is on the way now

Hurray!

I screwed up and didn't purchase a fan- ugh - I couldn't find one until after I already purchased the CPU; do you think that this fan made for a 65w TDP, would also work for my new CPU of 95w TDP? Would I be able to alter the fan speed to an appropriate level ; I believe I was able to do this at one point. EDIT: Just checked BIOS for fan speed options-nothing, I believe I was recalling my experiences with RadeonPro for my GPU fan speeds. Any ideas my technological brothers?

And the heat-sink, for which TDP is it rated at? If the fan speed can be controlled by the motherboard, its RPM's will vary according to CPU load, but if it's designed to dissipate no more than 65 W of heat, then you'll likely have to replace it not to observe any dire consequence. The likely on the last sentence is me resorting to euphemization. Also, make sure the heat-sink itself is capable of 95 W of heat dissipation, otherwise the same applies.

Even though the fan could be made to always spin at its maximum RPM's, it would still fall short of dissipation power whenever the CPU would approach the highest percentiles of activity and because that motherboard does not enable voltage tweaking, you can't under-volt the CPU to lower the heat output.

I definitely will keep you updated, so far I have covered most of the hardware section of my video material; I still feel like I don’t know enough though, as I have so many questions and am unsure of certain upgrade aspects such as the TDP and Watts (even though we have covered this already), I’ve already forgotten. Good to know I can just go back over this material and other sources of information to recall easier; thank you for that. I am currently waiting for two Comptia A+ books with CD/DVDs that should aid me in my journey for knowledge; loaded with pretests and the like.

It helps me to retain whatever little knowledge I've amassed; feel free to ask anything.

In the meantime remember: the Internet serves as one of the greatest resources if one knows where to look.

Ok thank you very much for that better clarification; a question though: If an audio card was attached to a separate interface than the GPU, could audio cause a bottleneck?

No. Theoretically it should have the opposite effect, i.e. of reducing the load on whichever component previously processing the audio, but nowadays, unless you're working with many sound effects, the only advantage of going with a discrete audio card is sound quality, as modern CPU's, certainly the quad-core you've purchased, are capable of processing audio without much stress.

Ok so a CPU can be the bottleneck if it can’t produce 60 fps or whatever is equal to the GPU and vice versa correct?
Also, I know a decent amount about Vsync, but this question has always confused me: If Vsync syncs it to 60 fps with all factors, CPU,GPU, and Monitor Frequency,(I’m not completely confident about this statement) I notice it doesn’t tear; but what about when it drops below, how does it still manage the tearing?

Simply put, the frame is a drawing made by the GPU. The more powerful the GPU is, the more it draws each second. The CPU manages the artificial intelligence and many other calculations, like game physics. Because all this data is inter-dependent, if either one of the components cannot process the data in synchrony with the other, we have a bottle-neck.

However, when v-sync comes into play, the amount of drawings required from the GPU are limited by the amount of refreshes the monitor is capable of, each second (Herz = frequency per second, therefore 60 Hz = 60 refreshes per second, and so on with 120 and 144 Hz), which means that if you have a CPU capable of processing enough data to keep up with a rate of 60 or higher FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, then the only bottle-neck becomes said refresh rate of 60 drawings/frames per second, v-sync induced.

As for the second question, there's another feature called triple-buffering that is usually suggested when using v-sync. This is supposed to prevent the halving of FPS whenever the GPU fails to keep up with the rate of 60 drawing/frames per second (on a 60 Hz monitor, with v-sync on). If triple-buffering isn't enabled/forced, then the FPS will halve to 30, but the tearing will still be addressed.

For more information on multiple and triple-buffering, check the description part of the article here. It's a fairly simple analogy.

I plan on letting you know when it gets here haha, this computer is my baby

I'll keep checking for updates!

Until then.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

Hurray!



And the heat-sink, for which TDP is it rated at? If the fan speed can be controlled by the motherboard, its RPM's will vary according to CPU load, but if it's designed to dissipate no more than 65 W of heat, then you'll likely have to replace it not to observe any dire consequence. The likely on the last sentence is me resorting to euphemization. Also, make sure the heat-sink itself is capable of 95 W of heat dissipation, otherwise the same applies.

Even though the fan could be made to always spin at its maximum RPM's, it would still fall short of dissipation power whenever the CPU would approach the highest percentiles of activity and because that motherboard does not enable voltage tweaking, you can't under-volt the CPU to lower the heat output.



It helps me to retain whatever little knowledge I've amassed; feel free to ask anything.

In the meantime remember: the Internet serves as one of the greatest resources if one knows where to look.



No. Theoretically it should have the opposite effect, i.e. of reducing the load on whichever component previously processing the audio, but nowadays, unless you're working with many sound effects, the only advantage of going with a discrete audio card is sound quality, as modern CPU's, certainly the quad-core you've purchased, are capable of processing audio without much stress.



Simply put, the frame is a drawing made by the GPU. The more powerful the GPU is, the more it draws each second. The CPU manages the artificial intelligence and many other calculations, like game physics. Because all this data is inter-dependent, if either one of the components cannot process the data in synchrony with the other, we have a bottle-neck.

However, when v-sync comes into play, the amount of drawings required from the GPU are limited by the amount of refreshes the monitor is capable of, each second (Herz = frequency per second, therefore 60 Hz = 60 refreshes per second, and so on with 120 and 144 Hz), which means that if you have a CPU capable of processing enough data to keep up with a rate of 60 or higher FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, then the only bottle-neck becomes said refresh rate of 60 drawings/frames per second, v-sync induced.

As for the second question, there's another feature called triple-buffering that is usually suggested when using v-sync. This is supposed to prevent the halving of FPS whenever the GPU fails to keep up with the rate of 60 drawing/frames per second (on a 60 Hz monitor, with v-sync on). If triple-buffering isn't enabled/forced, then the FPS will halve to 30, but the tearing will still be addressed.

For more information on multiple and triple-buffering, check the description part of the article here. It's a fairly simple analogy.



I'll keep checking for updates!

Until then.

JD

I will be replying to the rest of this post soon, but i have very important questions that are time sensitive due to the 30 day guarantee on the CPU.

1. How do can I tell what fan and heat sink will work with this CPU?

2. Are these normally expensive?

3. Any other worries, other than thermal compound?

4. Could you send me a link of a fan and heat sink that fits this criteria; that way I can see it for memory recognition and price comparisons?



5. Does this seem right? And how can I be sure, even with all the studying I am doing, I am still confused on how to know what goes with what:


CM Hyper 212+

Socket LGA1366 / 1156 / 775
AMD™: Socket AM3 / AM2 / AM2+
CPU Support Intel®: Core™ i7 Extreme / Core™ i7 / Core™2 Extreme / Core™2 Quad
Core™2 Duo / Pentium® / Celeron®
AMD™: Phenom™ II X4 / Phenom™ II X3 / Phenom™ X4 / Phenom™ X3
Athlon™ X2 / Athlon™ / Sempron™
Dimension: 120 x 79.7 x 158.5 mm (L x W x H)
Weight: 1.38 lbs; 626g
Heat Sink Material: Aluminum fin
Heat Pipes: 4 pcs
Fan Dimension: 120 x 120 x 25 mm
Fan Speed: 600 - 2000 R.P.M. (PWM)
Fan Airflow: 21.2 - 76.8 CFM
Air pressure: (mmH2O) 0.40 - 3.90 mmH2O
Bearing Type: Long life sleeve bearing
Fan Life Expectancy: 40,000 hours
Fan Noise Level (dB-A): 13 - 32 dBA
Connector: 4-pin

Scythe Katana 3

Heatsink Dimension: 94 x 108 x 143 mm
3.70 x 4.25 x 5.63 inch
Weight: 495 g (without accessory)
15.98 oz (without accessory)

Fan Dimension: 92 x 92 x 25 mm

Weight: 115 g

Speed: 300 ~ 2,500 rpm (regulated via PWM)
Noise Level: 7.2 - 31.07 dBA
Air Flow 12 - 95 m³/h = 6.7 - 55.55 CFM
Bearing: Sleeve Bearing

 

[John Dime]

Hehe I had to go back and check the CPU model. Did you end up settling for the 945 or 955?

Assuming you can't purchase the stock cooler, which would be sufficient, you can go with something like the Cooler Master Hyper TX3. I remember that the space inside your case wasn't too enabling and that high-towered heat-sinks weren't an option. This one isn't as tall as the Hyper 212 Plus or the Evo (newer version of the former), which are capable of 180 W of heat dissipation, whereas the TX3 handles up to 130 W, according to the manufacturer. It's also $11 cheaper than the Hyper 212 Plus, at $18.99.

For alternatives, check coolers performing similarly on reviews of the TX3, as in here.

As for the thermal compound, if the cooler doesn't bring any, try some of this or this one.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

Haha no problem, I've forgot some things myself.
Just a note: Its the Phenom II x4 955 Black Edition with the 95w TDP-Ill go ahead and check out these links, Thank you so much bro.

Edit: Just looked at the link for the TX3 and it brought me to and Evo; is this the same or did it just mess up haha. Also is there a specific TX3?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103064 - is that right?

I noticed in the above link that the video does not say it supports 938 LGA sockets, only 939, etc...(Is this still okay) I also noticed that she said 40000 hours of use; I presume that is without proper care? I say this because I have had computers that seems to have been around for ages work fine.


Edit: Just went back over things myself= You said,

"As you can see, it's physically possible to install the AM3 CPU on a AM2+ motherboard, as the former model was designed with 2 less pins that don't affect its compatibility with the latter socket."

Thanks again lol

Edit: Sorry haha work in progress. So now I'm worried about the size of the TX3,I'll try to find out my dimensions today.


Okay did the measurements and here's what I got for the fan alone 76.2 x 76.2 x 25.4mm ; I'm pretty sure the 92mm wont fit due to the plastic borders around the heat sink and CPU( EDIT:this is located only above and below the fan, so the below link should work) ....-Sigh- Perhaps a smaller form factor fan? I know that the heat sink is about 25.4mm, so I could definitely go inwards(height.) (Here's to hoping I am actually doing this right, its 76.2mm left to right and top to bottom{square} and then 25mm thick where the heat sink is attached. Sorry just want to be clear.)
{89w should be okay to try to work with right?)

http://www.amazon.com/Masscool-70mm-...pu+cooler+70mm

Would the above work?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-...rg=20140107083349&rk=2&rkt=10&sd=221356518934

I assume this is what I should have got, but it still looks bigger and no dimensions present in description.




By the way I tried doing some research on this new upgrade and found this website forum that seems a bit scary:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/299264-31-dell-inspiron-upgrade
"To everyone who owns an inspiron 546, you can upgrade to a better CPU, provided it's one that was originally sold by Dell with the computer!!! (i.e. Athlon II x2 250 or Athlon II x4 630) Make sure to get C2 revisions (harder to come by than C3-stepping versions). Have not tested a C3-stepping processor, doubt it would work because they did not come out until after the 546 was discontinued."

 

[John Dime]

Out of curiosity, as it has now been excluded, the link does present the TX3. Not sure why it doesn't for you, but in any case, you can always search for TX3.

Another detail, now regarding the 40,000 hours of longevity: that's over four and a half years of uptime, 24/7. Save anomaly and with the occasional dust riddance, such a fan will serve you for many years.

Okay did the measurements and here's what I got for the fan alone 76.2 x 76.2 x 25.4mm ; I'm pretty sure the 92mm wont fit due to the plastic borders around the heat sink and CPU( EDIT:this is located only above and below the fan, so the below link should work) ....-Sigh- Perhaps a smaller form factor fan? I know that the heat sink is about 25.4mm, so I could definitely go inwards(height.) (Here's to hoping I am actually doing this right, its 76.2mm left to right and top to bottom{square} and then 25mm thick where the heat sink is attached. Sorry just want to be clear.)
{89w should be okay to try to work with right?)

http://www.amazon.com/Masscool-70mm-...pu+cooler+70mm

Would the above work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-...rg=20140107083349&rk=2&rkt=10&sd=221356518934

I assume this is what I should have got, but it still looks bigger and no dimensions present in description.

Yes, if a vertical/tower like heat-sink doesn't fit, try searching for low profile/horizontal ones as you exemplified. And regarding low profile heat-sinks, are you sure the case cannot accommodate 92 mm fans? If it is so, it comes down to keeping that in mind (look for heat-sinks with an 80 mm fan, which should be the dimensions of the stock unit) as well as a heat dissipation potential of 100 W or over: I'd rather be conservative and opt for something over the CPU's rated TDP. For this, I'm not too keen on the proposed option, here. It has probably been mentioned, but if possible install an exhaust fan by the rear as well.

By the way I tried doing some research on this new upgrade and found this website forum that seems a bit scary:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/299264-31-dell-inspiron-upgrade
"To everyone who owns an inspiron 546, you can upgrade to a better CPU, provided it's one that was originally sold by Dell with the computer!!! (i.e. Athlon II x2 250 or Athlon II x4 630) Make sure to get C2 revisions (harder to come by than C3-stepping versions). Have not tested a C3-stepping processor, doubt it would work because they did not come out until after the 546 was discontinued."

I had a quick look and couldn't find it, but I believe it was brought up that refurbished units were being sold with either the 945 or 955 on the very same motherboard. I'll link if I find it.

Have you updated the BIOS? Make sure it's the latest, to ensure compatibility. And if the worse happens I suppose you can return it, no?

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1
Out of curiosity, as it has now been excluded, the link does present the TX3. Not sure why it doesn't for you, but in any case, you can always search for TX3.

2
Another detail, now regarding the 40,000 hours of longevity: that's over four and a half years of uptime, 24/7. Save anomaly and with the occasional dust riddance, such a fan will serve you for many years.


3
Yes, if a vertical/tower like heat-sink doesn't fit, try searching for low profile/horizontal ones as you exemplified. And regarding low profile heat-sinks, are you sure the case cannot accommodate 92 mm fans? If it is so, it comes down to keeping that in mind (look for heat-sinks with an 80 mm fan, which should be the dimensions of the stock unit) as well as a heat dissipation potential of 100 W or over: I'd rather be conservative and opt for something over the CPU's rated TDP. For this, I'm not too keen on the proposed option, here. It has probably been mentioned, but if possible install an exhaust fan by the rear as well.


4
I had a quick look and couldn't find it, but I believe it was brought up that refurbished units were being sold with either the 945 or 955 on the very same motherboard. I'll link if I find it.

Have you updated the BIOS? Make sure it's the latest, to ensure compatibility. And if the worse happens I suppose you can return it, no?

JD

1
I did find the 92mm TX3, but the link most likely became broken in the process of transfer; I see this happen if you don't select the appropriate link for sharing on www.youtube.com. Either way, I appreciate the suggestions.

2
Ah, thank you for putting it that way haha, makes much more sense.

3

4.
I've flashed bios, so no problem there. I have also seen the same system built that I am trying to accomplish; so we will just hope for the best and yes, if that is the case, I can return it lol.
Due to my limited time I must ask, instead of researching, are C3 and C2 normally compatible? Thank you for your time, it's been very helpful.

 

[John Dime]

Thanks for the images. According to the third, you do have some clearance upwards (from that angle). I watched a video of someone showcasing the X2 240, your current processor, and the fan does look pretty small. By your measurements, it is indeed smaller than 80 mm. Due to the limited space, by resorting to a horizontal cooler that meets the 95 W requirement, with a fan that small, it's going to be quite noisy.

The problem is that I don't know of a vertical heat-sink no taller than 5''. I did some research, but all I could find were discontinued units. The TX3 is 139 mm tall (around 5.5''). That's too tall, yes?

I'll keep on searching, but I suggest you start a topic on the Cases & Cooling sub-forum here, as others with vaster knowledge will likely be of more proficuous service than me.

I've flashed bios, so no problem there. I have also seen the same system built that I am trying to accomplish; so we will just hope for the best and yes, if that is the case, I can return it lol.
Due to my limited time I must ask, instead of researching, are C3 and C2 normally compatible?

It appears that the last BIOS update dates back to the 11th of February, 2010. The C3 revision appears to have been released later that year, but read the 4th post here, by jessterman21. They guess it's fine. I guess we'll find out.

In the meantime I managed to find the page where it's mentioned that Dell is selling a similar system with the X4 945 installed (check the 6th post). The X4 955 is an over-clocked version of the former, architecturally identical, for which we can derive compatibility (of the 95 W version, provided the BIOS does offer compatibility).

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1.
Thanks for the images. According to the third, you do have some clearance upwards (from that angle). I watched a video of someone showcasing the X2 240, your current processor, and the fan does look pretty small. By your measurements, it is indeed smaller than 80 mm. Due to the limited space, by resorting to a horizontal cooler that meets the 95 W requirement, with a fan that small, it's going to be quite noisy.

The problem is that I don't know of a vertical heat-sink no taller than 5''. I did some research, but all I could find were discontinued units. The TX3 is 139 mm tall (around 5.5''). That's too tall, yes?

I'll keep on searching, but I suggest you start a topic on the Cases & Cooling sub-forum here, as others with vaster knowledge will likely be of more proficuous service than me.



2

It appears that the last BIOS update dates back to the 11th of February, 2010. The C3 revision appears to have been released later that year, but read the 4th post here, by jessterman21. They guess it's fine. I guess we'll find out.

In the meantime I managed to find the page where it's mentioned that Dell is selling a similar system with the X4 945 installed (check the 6th post). The X4 955 is an over-clocked version of the former, architecturally identical, for which we can derive compatibility (of the 95 W version, provided the BIOS does offer compatibility).

JD

1
No problem bro. Yes, I believe that would be a bit to large, especially with the heatsink borders; good news though, I found this and I believe it to be capable of doing the job with a little power drill work

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...140226192826:s



What do you think? Will it break off due to weight?

2
I read both articles and believe we should be okay; with those links and the custom system I seen awhile ago (my current system goal) as evidence of it at least being partially operational, I believe it'll be safe.

One thing that concerned me though:

These BIOS say to use a DOS-bootable USB as if this was for some strange operating system that still uses DOS. Can you please explain this to me, because I have been taught (and in my experience) that BIOS are modernly updated through the executable alone... What the heck is going on here lol How would I even go about doing something like that, this PC is not my legacy machine with an ancient OS still running DOS; I am assuming this is a universal BIOS and that only applies to older OSes?

Aside from that thank you again for all the help; you opened my eyes to the fact that there was an update not applied to my system. I'm confused though because my BIOS states 1/19/2010 and I know I have flashed the BIOS once before; how is the date 2/11/2010 on the new BIOS? How would it have rolled back? Is there something wrong with the way I installed it?

 

[John Dime]

I found this and I believe it to be capable of doing the job with a little power drill work

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...140226192826:s

What do you think? Will it break off due to weight?

I'm more concerned about the "...CPUs up to 100W TDP..." claim. As stated, a small fan (70 mm, here) will spin and spin to satisfy said threshold (noisy), especially on that aluminium block, without any copper heat-pipes. But you already know I'm somewhat conservative. If you keep close track of the temperatures, issues can be averted. That wrote, I'd give it a go... A cautious go, nonetheless!

One thing that concerned me though:

These BIOS say to use a DOS-bootable USB as if this was for some strange operating system that still uses DOS. Can you please explain this to me, because I have been taught (and in my experience) that BIOS are modernly updated through the executable alone... What the heck is going on here lol How would I even go about doing something like that, this PC is not my legacy machine with an ancient OS still running DOS; I am assuming this is a universal BIOS and that only applies to older OSes?

Aside from that thank you again for all the help; you opened my eyes to the fact that there was an update not applied to my system. I'm confused though because my BIOS states 1/19/2010 and I know I have flashed the BIOS once before; how is the date 2/11/2010 on the new BIOS? How would it have rolled back? Is there something wrong with the way I installed it?

As you know, DOS is an acronym for DiskOperativeSystem. Those instructions indicate that you should create a boot-able device, nowadays more commonly an USB device, rather than a CD/DVD, and boot from said device. Once you have, you'll be met by a DOS-like environment where you're supposed to run the .EXE file you've copied to the device. That's the recommended way to update your BIOS. It is seldom recommended to perform this update while the OS is active. Preferably, use a USB drive with 4 GB or less, as the extra space causes it to take longer to format.

If you need some instructions on how to create a boot-able USB drive, follow these simple steps.

As for the date, I can't help you. This A11 version appears to be the most recent and the only from 2010. In any case, the update should set it straight. Just confirm it's meant for your system (Dell Inspiron 546).

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1.
I'm more concerned about the "...CPUs up to 100W TDP..." claim. As stated, a small fan (70 mm, here) will spin and spin to satisfy said threshold (noisy), especially on that aluminium block, without any copper heat-pipes. But you already know I'm somewhat conservative. If you keep close track of the temperatures, issues can be averted. That wrote, I'd give it a go... A cautious go, nonetheless!



2.
As you know, DOS is an acronym for DiskOperativeSystem. Those instructions indicate that you should create a boot-able device, nowadays more commonly an USB device, rather than a CD/DVD, and boot from said device. Once you have, you'll be met by a DOS-like environment where you're supposed to run the .EXE file you've copied to the device. That's the recommended way to update your BIOS. It is seldom recommended to perform this update while the OS is active. Preferably, use a USB drive with 4 GB or less, as the extra space causes it to take longer to format.

If you need some instructions on how to create a boot-able USB drive, follow these simple steps.

3.
As for the date, I can't help you. This A11 version appears to be the most recent and the only from 2010. In any case, the update should set it straight. Just confirm it's meant for your system (Dell Inspiron 546).

JD

1. Haha I am glad to have your approval friend, and no worries I plan to be extra cautious when operating on my baby lol I hope their claim is legit, and I don't mind noise; I have four children, two dogs and 3 cats, noise is inevitable

2. Ah, acronyms Well for what I am studying it means Denial Of Service, so I didn't recall that until you stated that lol I will say however that this name seems irrelevant presently due to the fact that DISKs aren't used modernly(opposed to discs), other than the Hard Disk Drive itself. I always recall DOS as MS-DOS, the ancient operating system controller lol

Regarding this statement:
"It is seldom recommended to perform this update while the OS is active."

Although Professor Messer (http://www.professormesser.com/free-a-plus-training/free-a-plus/) states what I was stating and has done the same as I have, I am more inclined to believe you due to your knowledge. He has been invited to Comptia expos, which make me think you should write a book. You and BigChickenJim have done an excellent job at explaining to me in logical and layman's terms everything I need to know. You have provided me with enough experience to go into doing hardware much more confidently and even if you don't make a book you have definitely made a change in my career confidence; so thank you

3. I downloaded my BIOS and made sure it was the correct OS and bit format, so everything should be fine. Thank you friend.

 

[DeathBestowerX]

I think this is a better option, what do you think?

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-Socket-Cop...ns+AM2+AM3+754

EDIT: Okay there was only one left through Amazon, so I bought it; I prefer their warranties and such

 

[John Dime]

I have four children, two dogs and 3 cats, noise is inevitable

I guess you're never short on company, eh?

Regarding this statement:
"It is seldom recommended to perform this update while the OS is active."

Although Professor Messer (http://www.professormesser.com/free-a-plus-training/free-a-plus/) states what I was stating and has done the same as I have, I am more inclined to believe you due to your knowledge. He has been invited to Comptia expos, which make me think you should write a book. You and BigChickenJim have done an excellent job at explaining to me in logical and layman's terms everything I need to know. You have provided me with enough experience to go into doing hardware much more confidently and even if you don't make a book you have definitely made a change in my career confidence; so thank you

I thank you for your kind words, but clarification is due! There's hardly a post for which I don't spend some time reading about the subject at hand, to be able to present an informed opinion. I couldn't get away with answering you properly resorting only to what I know, insufficient that it is. I do have an understanding of the basics, which allows me to timely complement my ramblings with said research, but you happen to have more merit for the answers, because you pose the questions. I'm glad this interaction has proved fructiferous to you.

And speaking of whom, I wonder how BigChickenJim is doing these days. Perhaps he'll grace us with an intervention, soon.

I think this is a better option, what do you think?

EDIT: Okay there was only one left through Amazon, so I bought it; I prefer their warranties and such

Indeed, it should be a better option. We've covered it before: copper conducts heat better than aluminium. Those heat-pipes will surely make a difference. In fact, from what I encountered that's very similar to the X4 955 stock cooler. Good call!

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1. I guess you're never short on company, eh?



2. I thank you for your kind words, but clarification is due! There's hardly a post for which I don't spend some time reading about the subject at hand, to be able to present an informed opinion. I couldn't get away with answering you properly resorting only to what I know, insufficient that it is. I do have an understanding of the basics, which allows me to timely complement my ramblings with said research, but you happen to have more merit for the answers, because you pose the questions. I'm glad this interaction has proved fructiferous to you.

And speaking of whom, I wonder how BigChickenJim is doing these days. Perhaps he'll grace us with an intervention, soon.



3. Indeed, it should be a better option. We've covered it before: copper conducts heat better than aluminium. Those heat-pipes will surely make a difference. In fact, from what I encountered that's very similar to the X4 955 stock cooler. Good call!

JD

[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT]Haha, not at all; I do love it that way

[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT]Well thank you very much, I appreciate that; knowledge is my apple, or broccoli for that matter lol I also wonder how he is doing, with the newborn I am sure he is fairly occupied

[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT]I was glad to read your statement and appreciate your praise, I wouldn’t even be this far if it wasn’t for you two haha.

[FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT]A side not: I currently received two Comptia A+ books for study. These books came with DVDs loaded with pretests, videos, and study material; all for the preparation of my 801-802 exams.

[FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT]Should I add extra thermal compound to my CPU if my fan came with some already pre-applied?

 

[John Dime]

Haha, not at all; I do love it that way

I'm glad. A happy home works wonders!

Well thank you very much, I appreciate that; knowledge is my apple, or broccoli for that matter lol I also wonder how he is doing, with the newborn I am sure he is fairly occupied

Do keep it that way. Curiosity killed the cat, needn't (always) apply to us...

A side not: I currently received two Comptia A+ books for study. These books came with DVDs loaded with pretests, videos, and study material; all for the preparation of my 801-802 exams.

One of these days, I'll be asking the questions.

Should I add extra thermal compound to my CPU if my fan came with some already pre-applied?

The circumstance doesn't mandate that. You can, if you have some thermal compound you already know to be reliable, but if you have to buy some I wouldn't bother if the temperature(s) don't visit infamous heights.

Of which, scroll down to Electrical / Thermal Parameters on this page, to get acquainted with the recommended maximum operating temperature, if you aren't already.

Note: I'll assume there's a 7ºC variation (55-62) because that site comports multiple versions of the X4 955 (from 95 W to 125 W), all of which point to the same interval. This to clarify that the comfort zone is not within those values, but up to either one, depending on the model.

Provided that my assumption is correct, yours having the lowest TDP, I'd expect it to be addressed by the 55ºC upper limit. Try and keep it below that threshold.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

1. Yes, indeed

2. Haha and again you are correct.

3. I can only hope bro; I hope to one day obtain a CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker) certification.

4. Will do, that is around what I run currently.

5. Trying to update my BIOS using a DOS-bootable usb flash drive has been quite irritating. I can't seem to get it to boot and I am not sure I understand the process of making a DOS-bootable usb flash drive; I found this video but the actual BIOS information does not say this:

http://youtu.be/UajJi6DPVfg

Please help me to understand this.

6. Even stranger than this, I tried to update using just the .exe and contrary to what it states date wise, it claims that it is the same version -.- Sooooo...... a 2/11/10 and a 1/19/10(My PC); I will just assume they have their dates mixed up.

 

[John Dime]

Trying to update my BIOS using a DOS-bootable usb flash drive has been quite irritating. I can't seem to get it to boot and I am not sure I understand the process of making a DOS-bootable usb flash drive; I found this video but the actual BIOS information does not say this:

http://youtu.be/UajJi6DPVfg

Even stranger than this, I tried to update using just the .exe and contrary to what it states date wise, it claims that it is the same version -.- Sooooo...... a 2/11/10 and a 1/19/10(My PC); I will just assume they have their dates mixed up.

There could be a mistake, certainly. Did you check the version by following either one of the steps indicated on the video? If the System Information (msinfo32 command) shows the A11 version, disregard further exercises here. If not, let me know.

Note: As you know, the BIOS precedes the loading of the OS. From a simplistic standpoint, it's best if you perform the update with the least amount of services loaded; it's safer. For instance, if you're updating the BIOS and your OS crashes, the result may be a corrupted BIOS which will likely deem your motherboard useless, as is. Hence my precautionary suggestion. But as always, I tend to be overly conservative when it comes to suggesting what others should do with their hardware. I don't want people taking unnecessary risks. On the other hand, DELL itself provides the .exe, so... I'll refrain from complicating it any further.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

There could be a mistake, certainly. Did you check the version by following either one of the steps indicated on the video? If the System Information (msinfo32 command) shows the A11 version, disregard further exercises here. If not, let me know.

Note: As you know, the BIOS precedes the loading of the OS. From a simplistic standpoint, it's best if you perform the update with the least amount of services loaded; it's safer. For instance, if you're updating the BIOS and your OS crashes, the result may be a corrupted BIOS which will likely deem your motherboard useless, as is. Hence my precautionary suggestion. But as always, I tend to be overly conservative when it comes to suggesting what others should do with their hardware. I don't want people taking unnecessary risks. On the other hand, DELL itself provides the .exe, so... I'll refrain from complicating it any further.

JD

1. Yes, I also know that often you can find BIOS information on the loading screen but I prefer the method that you state(MsInfo32). I recently learned about this tool and have been using it ever since. It states in both the executable and the MsInfo32 System Information Utility that it is BIOS Version A11 Date 1/19/10; my question is if I had to perform this upgrade using a DOS-bootable(correlating with my situation: "Bootmgr is Missing" when booting with my 4GB USB flash drive preloaded with the BIOS update.), how would I go about making it so that it boots from the USB; I don't mean through set up at the beginning of the boot, or through the BIOS even. What I mean is how do I get it to go past the BOOTMGR is missing point and what format is needed exactly? I researched the BOOTMGR, but the problem is that to frequently people have posted concerning OS issues; so my problem, if had been posted on, has been completely drowned.

"On the other hand, DELL itself provides the .exe, so... I'll refrain from complicating it any further."

Yes bro, but DELL also claims I need a DOS-bootable USB flash drive
I will just assume they made a mistake and that was meant, as I thought before, to be for systems running different OSes; and you haven't really complicated anything, if anything you have only helped me to be more cautious and observant when dealing with this type of situation.
One program I can suggest if you ever want to kill unnecessary Windows processes: GAMEBOOSTER; however, I do not think it would be wise to use this program when trying to update BIOS, unless of course you're familiar with every process in Windows.
I know their is a Windows Safe mode boot option, but there is no documentation leaning either way; I could attempt a command prompt based start up(I believe this is an option) and try installing it through there, but that is 'if' it allows me access to my USB, considering my previous experiences.

Thanks again bro, chat with you soon.

 

[John Dime]

On the video you linked (this one), it appears to be an automated process, after you begin it. And from what you state:

I will just assume they made a mistake and that was meant, as I thought before, to be for systems running different OSes

I'll assume you've already figured that you do not need a USB boot-able drive.

However, for future reference and to clarify, you're getting the BOOTMGR is missing message because the USB drive isn't boot-able. If you just copy the .exe file, restart the computer and select the USB drive as your booting device, it doesn't work. I linked a step-by-step procedure, but I actually find this more accessible.

From there on, you copy the .exe file to the root folder of the newly formatted USB drive, restart the computer, boot from it and once you're on the MS-DOS environment, type dir. This will show you the root directory, in which the .exe file is. This step is optional and merely used for assurance that the file is indeed present. Type the name of the file, complete with the extension .exe, and press enter. It should then run and perform the BIOS update.

Note: You needn't follow this procedure, now that we've established that your BIOS version is the latest. I merely elaborated for the sake of clarification. Hopefully I didn't overlook anything this once.

JD

 

[DeathBestowerX]

On the video you linked (this one), it appears to be an automated process, after you begin it. And from what you state I'll assume you've already figured that you do not need a USB boot-able drive.

However, for future reference and to clarify, you're getting the BOOTMGR is missing message because the USB drive isn't boot-able. If you just copy the .exe file, restart the computer and select the USB drive as your booting device, it doesn't work. I linked a step-by-step procedure, but I actually find this more accessible.

From there on, you copy the .exe file to the root folder of the newly formatted USB drive, restart the computer, boot from it and once you're on the MS-DOS environment, type dir. This will show you the root directory, in which the .exe file is. This step is optional and merely used for assurance that the file is indeed present. Type the name of the file, complete with the extension .exe, and press enter. It should then run and perform the BIOS update.

Note: You needn't follow this procedure, now that we've established that your BIOS version is the latest. I merely elaborated for the sake of clarification. Hopefully I didn't overlook anything this once.

JD

"I'll assume you've already figured that you do not need a USB boot-able drive."

Well I assume using the executable is the proper method in Windows 7 and Vista, but due to the grand contradiction (Use a DOS-bootable), I will continue to assume there are multiple methods for different OSes. I believe your method would be safest, that's if my USB flash drive allowed this. Let me iterate: I recently installed Windows 7 Ultimate again, I did this using an external USB DVD-RW drive; so therefore it has to be an issue with the flash drive itself, at least from what I collect, but as you state " You needn't follow this procedure, now that we've established that your BIOS version is the latest."

I have seen programs like the one you have suggested, except your source could be safer and I prefer safe. I assume I may have better access after using this program, so I appreciate it in advance due to the fact that this material will be job criteria eventually.

I am familiar with the dir command, due to my experience in MS-DOS; boy oh boy did I ever kick some butt when operating that command structure, haha but I digress.

Thank you for your help once again brother.

 

[DeathBestowerX]

Thank you all very much for your help; we have achieved what we have been working on for months upon months.

The Phenom II x4 955 95w TDP edition is indeed covered in the Dell A11 BIOS for the Inspiron 546. I simply installed it and placed my new fan from one of my previous links into the system.

I had some issues with getting the fan lock on, but it works and very well I must say. It fixed my massive fps drops I am so happy and thankful for all the help I have obtained.

Below are pictures of tempatures:


This one was after about 5-7 minutes of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

This was after about 3 minutes of the new The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct

Pictures courtesy of Tinypic.com (Layout option,fourth option)




I plan on doing some stress testing that NewEgg.com suggests; they included a program suggestion in their instructional video.

http://youtu.be/vLVHFaokdgA


Well thanks again friends, I will keep you updated as far as the RAM upgrades; I don't feel this is over yet, because personally I don't want it to be. This has been quite the rush haha