[massively] Analysts "concerned" about swtor, EA's stock falls

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Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Most of us could invest all the free time we wanted into raiding in WoW and we wouldn't see a heroic Deathwing kill until they nerfed the difficulty down to our level. You may like to think that MMOs are somehow different than any other game, they are not though.

Nonsense. Given enough time even the worst players will beat any content. Also, given enough time you WILL develop skills. Skills are learned, nobody is born a master video game player. There are differences in learning speed and absolute potential, but no blizzard encounter is hard enough to be limited by natural potential.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Nonsense. Given enough time even the worst players will beat any content. Also, given enough time you WILL develop skills. Skills are learned, nobody is born a master video game player. There are differences in learning speed and absolute potential, but no blizzard encounter is hard enough to be limited by natural potential.

You are missing the point. The point is that he COULDN'T invest enough time, until Blizzard made is easier.

Some people are only willing to put in so much time, so the highest level of content will never be reached by them. Which I think is fine.

The problem is that the people who only put in an hour a day still want to feel like they are the best (for some reason...it didn't used to be like this). TOR's solution is to make it super easy to max level and other things. This hurts the 'hardcore' crowd though.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Well I've basically lost all interest in even trying this game out. The time spent downloading all those GBs wouldn't be worth it.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Lol, I didn't even know SWTOR launched.

This, but then again once I hear "MMO" my interest meter drops to about 3/10, and the 3 is just to keep up with what's going on. There may come a day with a game so good, so awesome, so amazingly brilliant that it could compel me to pay a monthly subscription. Unfortunately I doubt such a game could exist on current technology.

In the meantime I'll enjoy about 40 hours of gameplay (per playthrough) on the Witcher 2; with relatively minimal grind, adult plot, intelligent gameplay, beautiful graphics, better voice acting, sex, and overall higher production values.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
This, but then again once I hear "MMO" my interest meter drops to about 3/10, and the 3 is just to keep up with what's going on. There may come a day with a game so good, so awesome, so amazingly brilliant that it could compel me to pay a monthly subscription. Unfortunately I doubt such a game could exist on current technology.

In the meantime I'll enjoy about 40 hours of gameplay (per playthrough) on the Witcher 2; with relatively minimal grind, adult plot, intelligent gameplay, beautiful graphics, better voice acting, sex, and overall higher production values.



Having played both, besides nudity, there's more sex in TOR and the voice acting is much better in TOR as well. The graphics in the Witcher 2 however are much better.

Skyrim is still way better than W2 though.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Having played both, besides nudity, there's more sex in TOR and the voice acting is much better in TOR as well. The graphics in the Witcher 2 however are much better.

Skyrim is still way better than W2 though.

So SWTOR has several-minute long sex cutscenes with full nudity, and a part where, during a critical quest, you just happen to walk in on a full-blown dominatrix scene and the characters are all hilariously chill about it? Quality over quantity my friend. And voice acting is relatively subjective I guess.

And haven't played Skyrim, but it's on my to-buy list.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
You are missing the point. The point is that he COULDN'T invest enough time, until Blizzard made is easier.

Some people are only willing to put in so much time, so the highest level of content will never be reached by them. Which I think is fine.

The problem is that the people who only put in an hour a day still want to feel like they are the best (for some reason...it didn't used to be like this). TOR's solution is to make it super easy to max level and other things. This hurts the 'hardcore' crowd though.

Maybe you and I read differently, but...

"Most of us could invest all the free time we wanted into raiding in WoW and we wouldn't see a heroic Deathwing kill until they nerfed the difficulty down to our level. "

I assume that all the time we wanted means as much time as it takes. Now if you are saying people fail because "all the time they want" equals 30 minutes a day, then I'd agree. The main thing holding people back from being "elite raiders" is lack of desire or caring. Anyone who wants to raid and can afford to put aside 8 hours a day into a video game can do any encounter in world of warcraft.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Subscribers are dropping fast. EA and Bioware are desperate to keep them, but the crappy testing, customer support, and game mechanics are driving customers away.

Even selling 2 million boxed copies isn't enough to recoup the losses from making the game. The only way to do that is to keep a lot of subscribers for a good amount of time. But the way things are looking, this is going the way of warhammer where everyone will be gone in a few months.

Remember

We all know what happened with AoC and Warhammer.

And then the shenanigans and crazy things that happen in the forums! EA/Bioware hide the cancellation button the day before free month ends? And then close threads and warn thread-makers that try to show people where it is? Not to mention that any constructive criticism of the game is met with "stop playing then" or "go bk2 WoW".

I think the most fascinating thing about that chart is EVE online started off slow and continues to gain subs.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
I think the most fascinating thing about that chart is EVE online started off slow and continues to gain subs.

One thing I always liked about EVE was that everyone played in the same world.

You can't trust EVE numbers though. I wouldn't be surprised if the average EVE player has 3 separate accounts.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
So SWTOR has several-minute long sex cutscenes with full nudity, and a part where, during a critical quest, you just happen to walk in on a full-blown dominatrix scene and the characters are all hilariously chill about it? Quality over quantity my friend. And voice acting is relatively subjective I guess.

And haven't played Skyrim, but it's on my to-buy list.



There's plenty of porn out there if that's what you want. I already stated besides the nudity. Play the Imperial Agent and you get to bang about every female character you come across.

And if the domination thing is your bit, you get a little slave girl that you can shock if she's a bad girl... :whiste:

And none of the sex scenes in W2 are a few minutes. The Witcher doesn't have that kind of stamina. :awe:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
One thing I always liked about EVE was that everyone played in the same world.

You can't trust EVE numbers though. I wouldn't be surprised if the average EVE player has 3 separate accounts.

Probably, I have two. But the game is a niche market that has been growing its sub base over the course of its lifetime. It didnt spike to 1 million subs day 1 and go into free fall on day 2.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
There's plenty of porn out there if that's what you want. I already stated besides the nudity. Play the Imperial Agent and you get to bang about every female character you come across.

And if the domination thing is your bit, you get a little slave girl that you can shock if she's a bad girl... :whiste:

And none of the sex scenes in W2 are a few minutes. The Witcher doesn't have that kind of stamina. :awe:

Don't play games for porn, just saying it's nice when its thrown in like it is in TW2. The whole dominatrix thing was just hilarious. I love how you just walk in, it's completely unexpected, and the two just stop, the "submissive" rolls over and we get a good look at her, then she walks out of the room and everyone acts like nothing happened. Just freaking hilarious.

And the nudity makes a difference IMO. It makes it more adult, none of this politically correct "implied" or "we couldn't really put this in the game" sex. As for the "few minutes" one, I'm thinking the scene in that underground pool after finding the Rose of Remembrance. It went on for 3 minutes or so IIRC.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Probably, I have two. But the game is a niche market that has been growing its sub base over the course of its lifetime. It didnt spike to 1 million subs day 1 and go into free fall on day 2.

That's true. Eve is unique though, the more people that join, the worse the game will get over time (starting from a performance standpoint).
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Having played both, besides nudity, there's more sex in TOR and the voice acting is much better in TOR as well. The graphics in the Witcher 2 however are much better..

TOR doesn't even have good voice acting. British accent != good voice acting. Every voice in TOR is mediocre, probably because they have so much VA. Voices in the W2 were much better, especially in Polish.

Also the sex in TOR doesn't count. It is simply a innuendo followed by a black screen.

"Hey..wanna...you know?"
"Ok"
*cut to black screen*
"Well that was fun!"

The whole aspect stinks of immaturity. It serves no point, really. It would be better if they just left that part out.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Just one comment/question and yes I do still like the game. As long as I'm having fun, I will play, when it stops, I'll leave
My question is where are the hard numbers on copies sold, current subs and lost subs?
I see a lot of anecdotal," game suck", "I, we , they quit" "my server is mt", "game x is now more populated" etc posts here and on the SWTOR forums but no hard numbers.
Anyone?

See my bold in your quote above. Any hard numbers or just your opinion?

units sold

downward trending users
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
Lots of sour grapes in this thread.

For those trashing TOR and praising ME2, WTF? ME2 was marginal at best, and best exemplifies a modern watered-down RPG.

TOR isn't perfect, but no better stroy-driven multiplayer game is around. No idea how long it may last, but it has hundreds of hours of multiplayer story quests to explore. Play it, pay the fee, and stop paying when your done. Not everyone needs to be a WoW zombie.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
TOR doesn't even have good voice acting. British accent != good voice acting. Every voice in TOR is mediocre, probably because they have so much VA. Voices in the W2 were much better, especially in Polish.

Also the sex in TOR doesn't count. It is simply a innuendo followed by a black screen.

"Hey..wanna...you know?"
"Ok"
*cut to black screen*
"Well that was fun!"

The whole aspect stinks of immaturity. It serves no point, really. It would be better if they just left that part out.

You do understand that TW2 was a closed-environment game that only has maybe 1% of the story that TOR has, right? That's like asking a TV show to have better production-quality than a 100-minute $300 million doller blockbuster.

I liked TW2, but comparing the two games is rediculous, at best.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
You do understand that TW2 was a closed-environment game that only has maybe 1% of the story that TOR has, right? That's like asking a TV show to have better production-quality than a 100-minute $300 million doller blockbuster.

I liked TW2, but comparing the two games is rediculous, at best.

Wait...what.

I was saying TW2 was better than TOR.

First you say that TW2 has 1% of the story TOR has (which is completely, off-the-wall false, especially since the majority of TOR's 'story' is trivial fetch or kill quests under a guise or mediocre voice acting) so it isn't fair to say TW2's story is better than TOR's is (which is also untrue, you just need an idea of quality of quantity). Just because TOR has more story doesn't make it okay for the story to be crap.

Then you go ahead and say that it is "asking a TV show to have better production-quality than a 100-minute $300 million doller blockbuster", but isn't TOR the "300 million dollar blockbuster"? Yet the less funded TW2 has better production quality?

I don't quite get where you were going with this.

And comparing the games isn't really that ridiculous, since TOR is barely even an MMO. More like a RPG with co-op on the side (since the primary focus of the game seems to be single player content).

Play it, pay the fee, and stop paying when your done

If that is how TOR should be played, it shouldn't have a fee or be an 'MMO' in the first place. Not to mention all of the 'hundreds of hours of multiplayer content' is really all just rehashes of the same mediocre story. You really expect players to play all the different classes when they are only menially different?
 
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pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
46
91
One thing I always liked about EVE was that everyone played in the same world.

You can't trust EVE numbers though. I wouldn't be surprised if the average EVE player has 3 separate accounts.

haha, i was just going to say I bet most eve players have multiple accounts because it would be too boring to just play 1.

the other thing also is that eve's leveling system is real-time based. you can't go in and grind on 1000 orcs to level up a skill, you have to wait days, weeks, or months to level up a skill.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
haha, i was just going to say I bet most eve players have multiple accounts because it would be too boring to just play 1.

the other thing also is that eve's leveling system is real-time based. you can't go in and grind on 1000 orcs to level up a skill, you have to wait days, weeks, or months to level up a skill.

The reason Eve succeeds is because it isn't afraid to be drastically different than the rest of the competition. It is one of the few respectable MMOs.

I don't know why MMO makers don't understand this.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
haha, i was just going to say I bet most eve players have multiple accounts because it would be too boring to just play 1.

the other thing also is that eve's leveling system is real-time based. you can't go in and grind on 1000 orcs to level up a skill, you have to wait days, weeks, or months to level up a skill.

For people like myself with a limited time budget that is a great way to move ahead in the game. It is one of the reasons it has drawn me and a few friends in this time. We simply dont have more than 1 night a week to play the game.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I think Eve succeeds because the P2P -> F2P mechanism would keep player retention high and give them a meta-quest to continuously complete. Never played myself, but if my game of choice instituted that I think it would at least inspire me to play monthly to some degree to avoid the sub fee without deactivating my account. The gist I've gotten from EVE discussions before is that getting enough for your "PLEX" is not overly difficult.
 
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