[massively] Analysts "concerned" about swtor, EA's stock falls

[Red Storm]

The reason Eve succeeds is because it isn't afraid to be drastically different than the rest of the competition. It is one of the few respectable MMOs.

I don't know why MMO makers don't understand this.

Thing is, EVE is considered very successful with 200k accounts, which means around half that number is actual unique players, and many of those players are buying game time with in-game money.

A game like WoW or ToR wouldn't be viewed as successful with numbers like that. They're aiming for millions. EVE targets a small niche and does a pretty good job of it, and I think that's the best way to make an MMO game.

For people like myself with a limited time budget that is a great way to move ahead in the game. It is one of the reasons it has drawn me and a few friends in this time. We simply dont have more than 1 night a week to play the game.

That's funny, being able to play only 1 night a week is the reason why I gave up EVE. To really get anywhere in that game you have to devote an unhealthy amount of time to it, and I always played with only 1 active account, so I was at a disadvantage compared to most other players.

 

[exar333]

Wait...what.

I was saying TW2 was better than TOR.

First you say that TW2 has 1% of the story TOR has (which is completely, off-the-wall false, especially since the majority of TOR's 'story' is trivial fetch or kill quests under a guise or mediocre voice acting) so it isn't fair to say TW2's story is better than TOR's is (which is also untrue, you just need an idea of quality of quantity). Just because TOR has more story doesn't make it okay for the story to be crap.

Then you go ahead and say that it is "asking a TV show to have better production-quality than a 100-minute $300 million doller blockbuster", but isn't TOR the "300 million dollar blockbuster"? Yet the less funded TW2 has better production quality?

I don't quite get where you were going with this.

And comparing the games isn't really that ridiculous, since TOR is barely even an MMO. More like a RPG with co-op on the side (since the primary focus of the game seems to be single player content).



If that is how TOR should be played, it shouldn't have a fee or be an 'MMO' in the first place. Not to mention all of the 'hundreds of hours of multiplayer content' is really all just rehashes of the same mediocre story. You really expect players to play all the different classes when they are only menially different?

You obviously know nothing about TOR so you can stop posting. Thanks.

 

[sigurros81]

I see Free to Play in 2013. TOR was all hype. They borrowed a lot from WoW yet failed in so many aspects that made WoW successful.

 

[darkewaffle]

I see Free to Play in 2013. TOR was all hype. They borrowed a lot from WoW yet failed in so many aspects that made WoW successful.

I think people are forgetting to compare SWTOR a month after release to WoW a month after release instead of WoW 7 years after release.

An MMO is about creating an environment and a game that will evolve; many of the features that keep people interested in WoW today were nothing more than an idea just a couple years ago. Judging the long-term prospects or overall experience of TOR based off what can be considered little more than it's "Vanilla" version is just short sighted.

 

[Red Storm]

I think people are forgetting to compare SWTOR a month after release to WoW a month after release instead of WoW 7 years after release.

An MMO is about creating an environment and a game that will evolve; many of the features that keep people interested in WoW today were nothing more than an idea just a couple years ago. Judging the long-term prospects or overall experience of TOR based off what can be considered little more than it's "Vanilla" version is just short sighted.

Thing is, with TOR releasing way after WOW, the devs had plenty of time to see how that game evolved and what the player base liked and didn't like. They had that information on hand while making their game, so I think it's quite reasonable to expect more from the newer game.

Not that I like WOW, I couldn't get over the blocky art style. Also I think one of the things that really drew me to EVE was that you couldn't see your character's body in-game. There's something about poor animations and players jumping around that just bugs me.

 

[Genx87]

Thing is, EVE is considered very successful with 200k accounts, which means around half that number is actual unique players, and many of those players are buying game time with in-game money.

A game like WoW or ToR wouldn't be viewed as successful with numbers like that. They're aiming for millions. EVE targets a small niche and does a pretty good job of it, and I think that's the best way to make an MMO game.



That's funny, being able to play only 1 night a week is the reason why I gave up EVE. To really get anywhere in that game you have to devote an unhealthy amount of time to it, and I always played with only 1 active account, so I was at a disadvantage compared to most other players.

What were you trying to do that one night a week didnt work? And would that be any better in a game that requires grinding?

 

[Red Storm]

What were you trying to do that one night a week didnt work? And would that be any better in a game that requires grinding?

Get beyond mission running in high sec space and be a part of an active corp out in the wilds of low sec and wormholes. Active corps don't like members that can only play once a week, and I completely understand.

No, it wouldn't be any better with another game, and that's why I can't stick with MMOs.

 

[Genx87]

I think people are forgetting to compare SWTOR a month after release to WoW a month after release instead of WoW 7 years after release.

An MMO is about creating an environment and a game that will evolve; many of the features that keep people interested in WoW today were nothing more than an idea just a couple years ago. Judging the long-term prospects or overall experience of TOR based off what can be considered little more than it's "Vanilla" version is just short sighted.

But they arent releasing SWTOR in 2004. The competition is WoW and WoW is 7 years into development. So the bar is pretty damn high. And it isnt like they didnt know where the bar is when developing SWTOR.

 

[Genx87]

Get beyond high sec space and be a part of an active corp. Active corps don't like members that can only play once a week, and I completely understand.

No, it wouldn't be any better with another game, and that's why I can't stick with MMOs.

Fair enough. Some of us are fine with mining and setting up a high sec manufacturing corp

I guess my point didnt have to do with game time required by parts of the game. But the fact I can advance my character in terms of skill ability playing one night a week as much as a person who plays 7. That makes it very attractive to people like me.

 

[Red Storm]

Fair enough. Some of us are fine with mining and setting up a high sec manufacturing corp

I guess my point didnt have to do with game time required by parts of the game. But the fact I can advance my character in terms of skill ability playing one night a week as much as a person who plays 7. That makes it very attractive to people like me.

Oh definitely, EVE's skill system is the best I've seen for an MMO.

 

[DrunkenSano]

TOR is definitely not a good game by 2012 standards, it would've been competitive for sure with WoW years ago but the game has a lot of subpar qualities. One of the glaring ones is graphics and another is not really any innovative and unique things that separates it from other MMOs. Voice-acting isn't very unique, just makes the game more expensive to create. The whole fighter on rails thing is terrible too.

 

[JoshGuru7]

TOR is an awesome multiplayer version of KOTOR3 for those of us who don't have an irrational view of monthly fees. The people who are quitting because they are "bored at 50" have already likely sunk 200+ hours into the game and I doubt they have played multiple story lines or on both sides. The hourly value of any MMO (TOR included) is simply outstanding compared to competitive - legal - forms of entertainment. The $75 that it has cost me so far since December is probably less then I would have spent on Steam in the past two months on worse games.

TOR is also a sub-par MMO if you view it only on those grounds. The fact that WoW has been around for seven years as an example does not give Bioware any more experience at developing them, this is still their first foray into the industry. A lot of the mistakes that Bioware has made in regards to reactionary balancing and exploit resolution are to be expected. I can see how this would be frustrating to somebody playing it only as a typical MMO and expecting it to be the next great thing there, but I can't sympathize since this is exactly what each beta tester and reviewer mentioned about it.

What I find funny about this thread is that anybody cares that other people like or dislike it. People with no or limited experience with ToR are in the thread trashing it, and people who enjoy it are spending time defending it. Does it really matter to any of you if people on the internet feel the same way about the game that you do?

 

[TheUnk]

TOR is definitely not a good game by 2012 standards, it would've been competitive for sure with WoW years ago but the game has a lot of subpar qualities. One of the glaring ones is graphics and another is not really any innovative and unique things that separates it from other MMOs. Voice-acting isn't very unique, just makes the game more expensive to create. The whole fighter on rails thing is terrible too.

Graphics aren't amazing no, but they aren't exactly bad either. If you want to toss a game out the window based on graphics alone then say goodbye to every Blizzard game recently released and that will ever be released. You think WoW met 2004 graphic standards? lol

Much of the game feels very unique to me, but then again I haven't played an MMO for 4-5 years. The combat is a lot of fun and the main story lines are very engaging.

I don't know why anyone would hate on the rail shooter part of it. It's clearly not meant to be an integral part of the game by any means and is more of a bonus to add to the Star Wars atmosphere. Pretty obvious based on the facts that it's a rail shooter, is single player only, and has very few levels.

 

[darkewaffle]

Thing is, with TOR releasing way after WOW, the devs had plenty of time to see how that game evolved and what the player base liked and didn't like. They had that information on hand while making their game, so I think it's quite reasonable to expect more from the newer game.

That's like saying it's reasonable to expect writing today to be seven hundred years better than the works of Shakespeare, or a hundred years better than The Adventures of Huck Finn, or even ten years better than Harry Potter. "Quality" is not something that just indefinitely increases as time goes on, it's a result of thought and work put into the product. Which is why WoW is where it is today, because it's had millions of man hours put into it; not because it was released in 2004 and UO was released in 1997. I think expecting TOR to come right out and be a direct competitor/analogue to WoW's current state, in terms of features and development, is either underestimating Blizzard's progress with WoW or having unrealistic expectations for a version 1.0 game.

With that said, ToR at release has just about everything WoW did, and then some. They both had two raids, and probably about equal dungeon content spanned across all levels. WoW though had no battlegrounds until about seven months in, and ToR has three at release. Additionally, I'd say ToR's endgame is more diverse at release with world bosses, heroics/hardmodes, and dailies all present whereas WoW players were mostly limited to BRD/BRS at that point. Also, off hand, I'd call the crafting system in ToR more refined and the PVP at least has the benefit of being designed with balance as a factor from the start, though achieving that is a never-ending work in progress.

What I think ToR has at the moment is essentially a Wrath of the Lich King-ish game in terms of levelling/game/reward pace that is still rough around the edges (re: bugs and missing pieces) and does suffer from having that pacing right off the bat without the content depth that WoW had when it switched gear to that more relaxed flow. Again, I think it's just a matter of time needed for ToR though; 1.0 for an MMO is not "done". It's a keystone to be built upon.

 

[Dumac]

You obviously know nothing about TOR so you can stop posting. Thanks.

Not gonna happen

I know a lot about TOR, both pros and cons. I have been deeply involved with the game for a few years now.

I know more about the game than I care to admit.

 

[Dumac]

That's like saying it's reasonable to expect writing today to be seven hundred years better than the works of Shakespeare, or a hundred years better than The Adventures of Huck Finn, or even ten years better than Harry Potter. "Quality" is not something that just indefinitely increases as time goes on, it's a result of thought and work put into the product. Which is why WoW is where it is today, because it's had millions of man hours put into it; not because it was released in 2004 and UO was released in 1997. I think expecting TOR to come right out and be a direct competitor/analogue to WoW's current state, in terms of features and development, is either underestimating Blizzard's progress with WoW or having unrealistic expectations for a version 1.0 game.

With that said, ToR at release has just about everything WoW did, and then some. They both had two raids, and probably about equal dungeon content spanned across all levels. WoW though had no battlegrounds until about seven months in, and ToR has three at release. Additionally, I'd say ToR's endgame is more diverse at release with world bosses, heroics/hardmodes, and dailies all present whereas WoW players were mostly limited to BRD/BRS at that point. Also, off hand, I'd call the crafting system in ToR more refined and the PVP at least has the benefit of being designed with balance as a factor from the start, though achieving that is a never-ending work in progress.

What I think ToR has at the moment is essentially a Wrath of the Lich King-ish game in terms of levelling/game/reward pace that is still rough around the edges (re: bugs and missing pieces) and does suffer from having that pacing right off the bat without the content depth that WoW had when it switched gear to that more relaxed flow. Again, I think it's just a matter of time needed for ToR though; 1.0 for an MMO is not "done". It's a keystone to be built upon.

Not only does your analogy not make sense (writing and development of video games are way too different to compare like that), you are missing the point.

What is the point in playing TOR when it basically just does what WoW does, only with less quality and in a sloppy way?

WoW is still on the market, and with only the underwhelming voice-acting and companion gimmicks to differentiate it, there is little reason to switch to TOR. TOR is also so similar to WoW that anybody who didn't like WoW probably won't find anything great about TOR.

 

[Barfo]

Same, but I'll take what we can get at the moment. It would be wonderful to see Activision, EA, and Ubisoft all burn down.

Ubisoft first, then EA and Activision at the same time.

 

[JoshGuru7]

WoW is still on the market, and with only the underwhelming voice-acting and companion gimmicks to differentiate it, there is little reason to switch to TOR. TOR is also so similar to WoW that anybody who didn't like WoW probably won't find anything great about TOR.

Based on your posts I wouldn't recommend TOR for you, but no game is going to appeal to everybody. I think this is especially true of a game like TOR that tries to include casual gamers in a popular IP and puts an emphasis on story that some people do not want in a MMO in the first place.

At the same time, most of the people in my guild are enjoying the game despite a few bugs and the Ilum fiasco. Does that bother you?

 

[Dumac]

Based on your posts I wouldn't recommend TOR for you, but no game is going to appeal to everybody. I think this is especially true of a game like TOR that tries to include casual gamers in a popular IP and puts an emphasis on story that some people do not want in a MMO in the first place.

At the same time, most of the people in my guild are enjoying the game despite a few bugs and the Ilum fiasco. Does that bother you?

No, of course not

I will stand by my opinion that TOR is a bad game, but I won't begrudge someone for enjoying something.

It does sound like my opinion of TOR bothers you, however.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Coming from playing piles of solo RPGs but no MMOs aside from a few hours of the F2P D&D online: TOR is a great game.

It's fun as a solo RPG, with good characters and interesting stories that vary by class. I have several solo RPGs (on PC, PS2, PS3 and Xbox) that I'm ignoring to play TOR right now because I don't want to stop playing TOR.

I expect to end up playing at least 6-8 of the 16 class combinations (counting advanced classes), possibly more, to see the different stories and settings as well as trying the different abilities. (Yes I know the Republic and Empire abilities are mirrors, but that leaves 8 distinct advanced classes with 8 different base class stories.)

I haven't done any PVP or reached the endgame content, but the co-op I've done for flashpoints and heroics has been an entertaining change from solo play.

Hardcore MMO players may not enjoy it, but us MMO noobs and sci-fi RPG fans are going to keep having fun without you and shoveling piles of cash towards EA.

 

[stuup1dmofo]

Seems like there are a lot of reactionary hipsters on this thread. Something is popular and fun for many people = bash it and call it lame. Vanilla wow launch had many of the same problems. Pvp was super broken in that game for ages. Entire class trees were pointless for a year(enhancement shaman stormstrike anybody?). TOR is a fun game that really appeals to Star Wars fans and even casual mmo players.

I'm not sure what to think of children (i dont care how old you are) wanting entire large companies to go down just because they don't like them. Forget that their budgets allow them to make large games that make billions for the economy each year. They employ thousands of people who might otherwise not be. Additionally, they provide entertainment and enjoyment for a large majority of gamers. But hey, your irrational hatred and sense of persecution is valid too.

I really like this game and hope it does well. My 5th mmo, and probably the easiest to get into. Honestly, the better it does, the more other games will benefit as a result of the profits made. Hell, more jobs for hard working people that support out hobby.

 

[J-Money]

I'll never understand why people like Dumac feel that if they don't like a game it's a huge failure and needs to be shut down.

 

[manimal]

Tor has been fun. Seeing the old Kotor storyline intesecting with my characters storyline has been really fun.

The gameplay can be described as Kotor like and the graphics are an improved version of what we saw in Kotor.

Reminds me of the people who hate beiber. Go ahead and hate on him if you want but some people take joy in his music as entertainment.

Dont pay and dont play. I seem to forget why gaming is so serious for some of the people in this thread.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I'm looking forward to this going Free2Play. I'm not at all convinced that it's viable as a subscription based MMO on a long term basis, and from what I've heard, it's a really great single player game marred by grindy, boring MMO elements. I want to see the story, and would gladly pay $60 for a single player version of the game to see that stuff, but I have zero interest in paying $15/month for it.

 

[kami]

The game has a ton of problems, both technical and design wise. If it survives, I have little doubt it will live up to its potential but were talking years of patches and improvements to get there.

The engine they bought, the Hero Engine, is horribly unoptimized. If you are solo questing or just in a small group it's fine, but try PVPing on Ilum or even just riding around the fleet. It crawls at 15-20fps on the rig in my signature. Comparitively WoW stays at 60fps in large 40vs40 battles or 25 man raids. Also blizzards currently beta testing a 64bit client for WoW which wll be out soon to further keep up with modern rigs.

Design wise, where to begin? Let's just say I have spent maybe 1/4 the time PVPing as this other guy in my guild yet I have more Champion gear then him because I have had more RNG luck with the reward bags. That seems horribly unfair. The entire PVP reward system is a convoluted mess.