[massively] Analysts "concerned" about swtor, EA's stock falls

[IndyColtsFan]

I played SWG from launch until right before the CU happened. It was a fine game, but I'm enjoying TOR now far more than I ever enjoyed SWG. The only thing I miss from SWG are the huge worlds. There was a TON of empty space, and it made the game feel vast.

I miss player houses, player cities, base raids, crafting, and my old store (one character was a Master Architect). You're right about the worlds too -- they were huge and pretty immersive IMO. I think Galaxies did a far better job on Tatooine than TOR did.

I miss the early days. I can remember running through the deserts of Tatooine and setting up camps (especially at night) to heal after we got attacked by mobs. It was such an awesome experience. I think the game was a great combination of theme park and sandbox, though I think they probably should've had 1 or 2 more themeparks.

The TOR support is the worst I've ever encountered. I've never submitted a ticket in any other game only to get a VERY, VERY broken English reply back that has NOTHING to do with my issue. My first ticket I submitted was about a loot bug, and the reply I got back was "We're sorry, but you are unable to change your Legacy name at this time" only written very poorly. I couldn't believe it.

I submitted a ticket about a loot bug and I specified exactly what happened (only the first player could loot the third and final piece in the heroic; the other 3 could not), specified the mission name, boss name, etc. I got back a form email wanting to know things like "What kind of PC are you running?" or some such nonsense. I just rolled my eyes and deleted it.

 

[fastcuda]

I'm so glad I got into the free open beta weekend, it saved me the money of trying the game the first month.

 

[Merad]

But I did enjoy KOTOR so much that despite myself this game intrigues me, mainly because Bioware made such a big deal about the huge amount of content and how single player friendly the game will be. I would be interested in people's single player experiences. Can you start a storyline and finish it up like a real single player game without ever joining a guild or teaming up with other people? If so is the storyline really fleshed out like a 30 or 40 hour single player game, or is it just mainly a bunch of quests stuck together? Is there a "main quest" that ties the game together that you can finish as single player?

You could play totally solo and make it through most* of the game. Each class has it's own story line which goes continuously from level 1 to 50 (though it's split into several chapters). Then each world you visit typically has a set of quests that tell a story for the planet, along with multiple side quests. For example on Taris (playing as Republic) the main story involves you helping the Republic efforts to rebuild (remember that it was bombed out in KOTOR). Side quests include things like helping settlers, helping research teams find info about how Taris used to be, etc. Each planet also has several "heroic" quests that require 2-4 players to complete, but there's no penalty for skipping them.

So you basically have 8 story lines that are unique to each class and planetary stories that are shared by each faction.

That said, if you try the game you would be foolish not to at least try grouping. The game's multiplayer dungeons (called flashpoints) are very fun and and have some good stories.

*Clarification: You'd have no problem making it to level 50 or completing your class story, etc. You just won't experience the heroic quests or flashpoints without grouping (although some of the lower level ones can be soloed when you get to high levels).

Also, if you buy the game do you get any free playtime, or do you have to start paying a monthly fee immediately?

A month of play time comes with the initial purchase.

 

[Pens1566]

TOR will be successful. To what degree, who knows. It won't reach WoW levels. Then again, even WoW is in decline with it's Kung Fu Panda expansion coming down the pipe.

I'd honestly be more interested to see WoW sub levels recently than TOR. Which, btw, no one in here claiming they are dropping rapidly has been able to provide.

 

[zokudu]

TOR will be successful. To what degree, who knows. It won't reach WoW levels. Then again, even WoW is in decline with it's Kung Fu Panda expansion coming down the pipe.

I'd honestly be more interested to see WoW sub levels recently than TOR. Which, btw, no one in here claiming they are dropping rapidly has been able to provide.

The last Blizzard earnings call had subs at ~10.3m accounts in wow.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

If you want responsive gameplay, stay away from TOR. The combat is just not very good. If you don't really care about the story or Star Wars and skip most of the cutscenes, you get to see the nice little grindy core that is this game. Without the voice acting and plot, the questing is even less inspired than pre-Cataclysm WoW.


I had super high hopes for this game, but it really fell short. Also loved SWG before they ruined it.

 

[Pens1566]

The last Blizzard earnings call had subs at ~10.3m accounts in wow.

Which was how long ago? I know it was before the last raid tier came out and before TOR. Was the Panda expansion announced yet? If I'm not mistaken, that's down 700k from previous # as well.

What I'm getting at is that from being in game and talking with long time players, there is a serious interest issue in going forward with that game. Some of it burnout, some disillusion over next xpac. Some are moving to TOR. Some just quitting and waiting for D3. I thought it was kind of obvious when they tried to lock in year commitments with the free D3 ploy. Another excellent example is the WoW sticky here. Almost dead these days and the sentiment in there among core, long time players is not positive.

 

[Bateluer]

If you want responsive gameplay, stay away from TOR. The combat is just not very good. If you don't really care about the story or Star Wars and skip most of the cutscenes, you get to see the nice little grindy core that is this game. Without the voice acting and plot, the questing is even less inspired than pre-Cataclysm WoW.


I had super high hopes for this game, but it really fell short. Also loved SWG before they ruined it.

Err, not that I'm defending EA here, but if you don't care about story or Star Wars, why are you playing a Star Wars MMORPG in the first place? All MMOs are grinding at their core.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

Err, not that I'm defending EA here, but if you don't care about story or Star Wars, why are you playing a Star Wars MMORPG in the first place? All MMOs are grinding at their core.

I play MMOs for endgame. Grinding to max level should be a small fraction of the game. Raiding isn't grinding.

 

[Pens1566]

I play MMOs for endgame. Grinding to max level should be a small fraction of the game. Raiding isn't grinding.

I'd say raiding is grinding. Fighting same bosses for hours every week, week after week, for pieces of loot to drop.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

This is a taste thing again. I have nothing against you finding the type of game you like: The more variety they better! But I would probably not play the one you'd prefer.

Except maybe the eventual WoD mmo. Somehow that just seems right there...

You have to understand that I'm talking about the PvP servers. as long as PROPER PvP servers are provided, I don't begrudge the 70% + of players that will play on PvE servers. In your answer, I'm not sure if you mean that you want PvP servers to be non-griefing or that you just don't want griefing on PvE.

so what I mean is, on dedicated PvP servers, that people have the option of not selecting, it should be possible to put the hurt on your enemies. But that doesn't mean that the game should make it easy to do or not provide a way of escaping a corpse camp situation.

for example, in MY opinion TOR World PvP is a major fail in this respect, since you have level 50s ganking 11s. That is an example of "making it easy". A max level range of say, 5, is called for.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

I'd say raiding is grinding. Fighting same bosses for hours every week, week after week, for pieces of loot to drop.

If you're actually pushing hard content, then no it isn't. If you're doing things like raid finder, then yeah I suppose you could consider it grinding. People that treat raiding along the same lines as quest grinding usually aren't playing to the best of their abilities.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

If you want responsive gameplay, stay away from TOR. The combat is just not very good. If you don't really care about the story or Star Wars and skip most of the cutscenes, you get to see the nice little grindy core that is this game. Without the voice acting and plot, the questing is even less inspired than pre-Cataclysm WoW.


I had super high hopes for this game, but it really fell short. Also loved SWG before they ruined it.

Ive been complaining about the combat for a while. Ive died so many times from my keys not registering, for using a global CD because I right click to move the camera (if you hit a person, it does quickslot 1 and cant be unbound). That is the most annoying part of the game that its almost enough for me to cancel.


Oh look, as I typed this, they posted this up to facebook

http://www.swtor.com/blog/georg-zoeller-gives-update-ability-delay

 

[Judgement]

Did they fix the exploits? I was planning on hitting 50 (Empire) this weekend and I have been enjoying PvP, but if everyone at 50 is now fully decked out without having put in any effort and now I'll be in shitty gear trying to grind the stuff they basically got for free.... I won't be playing much longer.

Since 2/3 of your PvP matches as an empire player are against other empire players in Huttball, it isn't even like I'll be able to avoid them

 

[Merad]

I play MMOs for endgame. Grinding to max level should be a small fraction of the game. Raiding isn't grinding.

Raiding is the very definition of grinding. It's just a type of grinding that you apparently enjoy. And it's not the focus of TOR.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It will do fine with those of us who want an RPG more than a MMO, we aren't as jaded as you WoW veterans. At least as long as they keep adding more story-based content.

 

[Pens1566]

If you're actually pushing hard content, then no it isn't. If you're doing things like raid finder, then yeah I suppose you could consider it grinding. People that treat raiding along the same lines as quest grinding usually aren't playing to the best of their abilities.

Wasn't even considering the difficulty of the mobs. If you repeat it often enough, long enough, it's grinding. I felt like ICC and ICC H were nothing but a grind after a month or so. I guess it's semantics ...

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

Raiding is the very definition of grinding. It's just a type of grinding that you apparently enjoy. And it's not the focus of TOR.

Negative. Anyone can do grinding, not that many can do endgame raiding. Even less can do hardmode content. Endgame is the focus of all MMOs. If it isn't their focus, they will decay.


The Star Wars brand can obviously keep a lot of people around, considering just how badly they can tarnish that name and still make heaps of money. So it will always have a small dedicated group of subscribers.

 

[Merad]

Negative. Anyone can do grinding, not that many can do endgame raiding. Even less can do hardmode content. Endgame is the focus of all MMOs. If it isn't their focus, they will decay.

Grinding has nothing to do with the difficulty of the action.

 

[Pens1566]

Negative. Anyone can do grinding, not that many can do endgame raiding. Even less can do hardmode content. Endgame is the focus of all MMOs. If it isn't their focus, they will decay.

I don't want to turn this into an elitist vs casual argument, but I definitely disagree with the bolded. It's not about skill, it's about time. And time is grinding.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

should have done a KOTOR3 for consoles+PC, likely could have had Skyrim type success, if not better, and for a heckuva lot cheaper than what it cost to produce SWTOR

 

[Ns1]

Negative. Anyone can do grinding, not that many can do endgame raiding. Even less can do hardmode content. Endgame is the focus of all MMOs. If it isn't their focus, they will decay.

it's been a long time, but isn't doing BRS 50 times in a row to get l33t gear the very definition of grinding, even if it does take 25+ people and 4 hours a raid?

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

I don't want to turn this into an elitist vs casual argument, but I definitely disagree with the bolded. It's not about skill, it's about time. And time is grinding.

It's 100% about skill. The small fraction of guilds that have downed heroic Deathwing shows that. It isn't like those guys have more free time than everyone else. They're just better players. In the same sense of saying if you play a first person shooter long enough, you will be the best at it. No, you will not.

 

[Ns1]

It's 100% about skill. The small fraction of guilds that have downed heroic Deathwing shows that. It isn't like those guys have more free time than everyone else. They're just better players. In the same sense of saying if you play a first person shooter long enough, you will be the best at it. No, you will not.

...and did they have to grind raids to get the gear in order to get to the point where they could even DO heroic end game raids?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

It's 100% about skill. The small fraction of guilds that have downed heroic Deathwing shows that. It isn't like those guys have more free time than everyone else. They're just better players. In the same sense of saying if you play a first person shooter long enough, you will be the best at it. No, you will not.

In order to truly judge skill everyone has to be equally geared, or every guild, I should say, that attempts something.

I think people are complaining that even before you can attempt to demonstrate your skill on endgame you have to grind a lot. Well, if there was no grinding, the game would be too easy. It would be something like...TOR.