[massively] Analysts "concerned" about swtor, EA's stock falls

[Ns1]

In order to truly judge skill everyone has to be equally geared, or every guild, I should say, that attempts something.

I think people are complaining that even before you can attempt to demonstrate your skill on endgame you have to grind a lot. Well, if there was no grinding, the game would be too easy. It would be something like...TOR.

so then the game becomes a factor of skill and not time?

I don't see how grinding = difficulty

 

[Pens1566]

It's 100% about skill. The small fraction of guilds that have downed heroic Deathwing shows that. It isn't like those guys have more free time than everyone else. They're just better players. In the same sense of saying if you play a first person shooter long enough, you will be the best at it. No, you will not.

We're severely off topic, so this will be my last post on this tangent. Since others seem to agree with me.

I haven't raided since ICC H25 because it became a grind or job-like. I've seen bad players "get" an encounter after repeating it enough. I'm not talking about being the best at it or first at it. I'm talking about being able to beat it after repeated attempts. Are there people that "get" the encounter faster because they're better or smarter? Absolutely. Those world first guilds in WoW spend huge amounts of time on HM content. To most of us, that is considered a grind. There is skill involved. That lets them beat it faster. Eventually, if you have some semblance of synaptic activity and 24/9 others that aren't brain dead, the average player will as well.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

In order to truly judge skill everyone has to be equally geared, or every guild, I should say, that attempts something.

I think people are complaining that even before you can attempt to demonstrate your skill on endgame you have to grind a lot. Well, if there was no grinding, the game would be too easy. It would be something like...TOR.

Gear actually doesn't matter in terms of judging skill. Gear is the proof that you're skilled. The content you get down is also the evidence of your skill.

Most of us could invest all the free time we wanted into raiding in WoW and we wouldn't see a heroic Deathwing kill until they nerfed the difficulty down to our level. You may like to think that MMOs are somehow different than any other game, they are not though.

 

[lupi]

Swg sucked at release.

And WoW was the worst thing for mmos. Not in the game itself, but to all the publishers pushing all these titles they think can rake in the $$$$$$$$ just because they charge a monthly fee. Most of what is or has come out should either been sold with a lifetime option, or pay for the initial copy like a normal game with a fraction of the monthly price most want to charge.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

Eventually, if you have some semblance of synaptic activity and 24/9 others that aren't brain dead, the average player will as well.

This is where you're completely wrong.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

so then the game becomes a factor of skill and not time?

I don't see how grinding = difficulty

I really don't know how to explain this without using easy/hard.. You're right of course...perhaps we should say, that if there's no grinding to get to the endgame, be it grinding to collect better gear so you can start the endgame, or grinding for levels or grinding for more AA abilities(in EQ anyway), perhaps we should say that without grinding it's too trivial.

Gear actually doesn't matter in terms of judging skill. Gear is the proof that you're skilled. The content you get down is also the evidence of your skill.

Most of us could invest all the free time we wanted into raiding in WoW and we wouldn't see a heroic Deathwing kill until they nerfed the difficulty down to our level. You may like to think that MMOs are somehow different than any other game, they are not though.

What I mean is, and I haven't played WoW so I can't comment on Deathwing, but in general, let's just say the current expansion/state of the game has a 3 tiers of endgame RAID mobs, you generally need to farm gear from tier 1 to do 2, 2 to do tier 3. No one should be able to do tier 3 RAID mobs even using the highest tier of that expansion's GROUP mobs.

 

[Pens1566]

Gear actually doesn't matter in terms of judging skill. Gear is the proof that you're skilled. The content you get down is also the evidence of your skill.

Most of us could invest all the free time we wanted into raiding in WoW and we wouldn't see a heroic Deathwing kill until they nerfed the difficulty down to our level. You may like to think that MMOs are somehow different than any other game, they are not though.

By this logic, my guild that downed H25 LK months after the world first is just as good as whoever got world first. Which isn't true. They're "better" because they did it first and got there much faster.

 

[Ns1]

nm over it

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

By this logic, my guild that downed H25 LK months after the world first is just as good as whoever got world first. Which isn't true. They're "better" because they did it first and got there much faster.

I would like to think that to SOME extent(and people who don't work do have an advantage here that messes this up) people who successfully grind faster, and are able to start attempting certain mobs faster, that's evidence of more skill as well.

 

[Pens1566]

I would like to think that to SOME extent(and people who don't work do have an advantage here that messes this up) people who successfully grind faster, and are able to start attempting certain mobs faster, that's evidence of more skill as well.

Agree. You'll even see some of that within a guild raid. You always have a few "stragglers" that are the ones eating a Defile 5 attempts after everyone else has figured it out. It just takes some players longer.

 

[zinfamous]

If I could predict a time line on when this might go F2P, I would probably buy a copy and pay in a 3-6 month sub, whatever is most likely to unlock all the content after F2P.

As it stands, my desire for this game drops with each week, and I just don't give a rats ass about KOTOR storyline anymore. Mainly, because:

1. Skyrim. Sure, not the same, and likely garbage story in comparison, but I don't want to pay monthly fees for standard MMO grindfest any more. It has become all I want to play these days.

2. GW2 this year. For me, it will be the best game, since, well....GW1. :awe: No monthly sub, skill-based play, gorgeous world and innovative class systems. Yes sir.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

What I mean is, and I haven't played WoW so I can't comment on Deathwing, but in general, let's just say the current expansion/state of the game has a 3 tiers of endgame RAID mobs, you generally need to farm gear from tier 1 to do 2, 2 to do tier 3. No one should be able to do tier 3 RAID mobs even using the highest tier of that expansion's GROUP mobs.

Yeah, they changed how they spaced out content and the ilvls of gear now. So it doesn't really work like that now. Blizzard has really nailed the sweet spot in terms of giving people challenging content to work on or Baby's First Raid to grind up some gear.

You can't really compare this current expansion and it's content to Wrath. ICC was out for so long, that yes it was a grind. Until you hit a heroic LK wall.

 

[wuliheron]

EA deserves whatever they've got coming. With any luck gamers will continue to recognize the threat their ruthless corporate mentality of money, money, money, presents to quality gaming and continue to give them the boot. I don't mind anyone making money off games or even a lot of money off games, but the sheer unadulterated greed they've displayed is unmistakable and needs to be curbed as soon as possible.

 

[zokudu]

Even ignoring the grinding for gear any of you hardcore raiders cannot tell me that pulling a boss 500-1000 times to get a kill is not a grind. Hardcore guilds don't just instantly "get" all content they work just like everyone else as well as being good at the game its still a grind just like that guild that pulls 4/8 every week and can't quite kill Ultraxion, they just do it all at once.

 

[Arkadrel]

@Zokudu

If raids feel like grinde, their too easy.... thats game developers being to lax on players.

I feel like raids should be challegeing, which means you die until you learn the right statagies, and have people focused that can follow it flawlessly.

Simply for the lone reason of not *just* being another matter of time spent = item reward (ei grinding). There needs to be a sense of accomplishment from gear rewards, thats just not there if its to easy.

for someone that only plays for pvp, that wont matter at all though.
for someone that only plays for pve, thats a make or break kinda deal though.

I actually didnt like WoW, because of stuff like this:
a high level would enter instances, walk you through it (he never got level capped) and just rush to be boss, kill it for you, and you got a easy item.

^ sh*t like that ruins a game (theres litterly no accomplishment in it)
Also every damn thing you do rewards you with a new item = rewards become meaningless.

Its even worse if its endgame content, and its so easy its just another grinde.

WoW is baby friendly, to applease the masses, of 10yo that dont want to have to fall flat on their faces to often.

 

[frozentundra123456]

should have done a KOTOR3 for consoles+PC, likely could have had Skyrim type success, if not better, and for a heckuva lot cheaper than what it cost to produce SWTOR

I would have much, much preferred KOTOR3 also, and would have bought it in a heartbeat. But I think they (Lucas Arts, Bioware, EA or all of them) wanted to go for the big bucks cash cow. They are going after the monthly subscription fees.

Whether the game remains popular enough for them to recoup the dev cost and make a boatload of money seems still open to me.

 

[power_hour]

Sounds more like somebody is trying to talk down the stock

just saying...

Game is not bad, but not great. MMOs make money and I am pretty sure they knew the risks going into this. Was this a disappointment? Judging by the way the game looks and feels I would say yes. Will it make money? Its Star Wars. Of course it will. Will this kill EA? No but a few suits will be looking for work no doubt.

 

[zinfamous]

@Zokudu

If raids feel like grinde, their too easy.... thats game developers being to lax on players.

I feel like raids should be challegeing, which means you die until you learn the right statagies, and have people focused that can follow it flawlessly.

.

I stopped right here, because:

1. You can't type/spell worth shit. not sure what the problem is here.

2. everything you described is grinding. The idea that you go after a boss repeated times, to learn it, and then to do it over and over, is grinding.

This is a simple concept, people.

 

[zerogear]

Lol, I didn't even know SWTOR launched.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Same, but I'll take what we can get at the moment. It would be wonderful to see Activision, EA, and Ubisoft all burn down.

That would be amazing

 

[linthat22]

Can you still play as Jabba?

 

[Dumac]

The thing with MMOs is that they can either seperate players by

1. Skill

2. The amount of time they put in

TOR does neither, as it takes no skill and barely any time investment. There isn't really much to do.

 

[darkewaffle]

The thing with MMOs is that they can either seperate players by

1. Skill

2. The amount of time they put in

TOR does neither, as it takes no skill and barely any time investment. There isn't really much to do.

I don't know that you could make an MMO that doesn't separate based on time put in. I mean if you play all day and all you do is warzones for gearbags or your dailies, you're going to get ahead of the people that don't/can't at least on a technical basis.

For more than just the "hardcore" players to play 50 and beyond, the first raids need to be accessible, which they are, much like a Karazhan. And then from there they can build a raid 'progression' of sorts, ramping up difficulty. But starting with something without mass appeal is counter productive.

The same applies to the warzones, huttball in particular imo, as making most people's initial PVP exposure objective based instead of kill based means that gear discrepancies are less emphasized and working with your team has at least equal importance to how well you can kill/heal etc.

And even then, playing your class well benefits your team in any scenario (PvE or PVP). It's just that the current crop of warzones (and actually some of the raid encounters even) are designed so that that's not all that matters.

 

[lozina]

This is the first mmorpg that I ever bought and paid a subscription for where I played it the day I installed and then havent had an urge to play it again since.

Even Lineage 2 I played for a week or two before I gave up on that lol. And Darkfall lasted a week maybe too.

Though I have to say the game looks like its high quality, and it definitely has some amazing voice acting and visuals. But I just find it so boring!

 

[darkewaffle]

Admittedly, L2 was probably one of the grindiest games of all time. Not really a good bar to compare to

But it comes with the territory. No MMO is grind-free really, but SWTOR keeps it to a relative minimum imo.