Matrix: help me understand this..

[RayH]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: maladroit

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb
ok.. he wasn't really the one. (NOT supposed to, wasn't destined to, according to the Oracle, and she's NEVER wrong)

HOWEVER, that lady told trinity that whoever she falls in loves with will BE the one.

SO, it changes the whole thing with Neo. After he dies , she admits she loves him. Since she falls in love with him, he BECOMES the one 'indirectly' and comes BACK to life.

The oracle only told him "what he needed to hear."

yes, that he wasn't going to be the one.

But then the Oracle also said "Your next life maybe, who knows?" which is true because he dies first before becoming the One.

 

[DoNotDisturb]

if trinity had nothing to do with him being the one, the last part with her giving her whole speech would have been entirely pointless. if he WAS already the one, then her 'destiny' would have been pointless too, why 'would' he die? WHY would the oracle say that he wasn't the 'one' if she knows the people's 'destiny', if the oracle knew ahead of time trinity would fall in love with someone, why wouldn't she also know that neo would be the one because trinity falls in love with her? is the oracle 'limited' to what she can know?? who knows?? morpheus ONLY said all that because he believed it so much, he didn't care what neo would say, neo went BACK because of what the Oracle said, about how he would sacrifice his life for neo, cmon, if someone was willing to die for u and was caught up in some sh!t, wouldn't u help??? from here, u can take it upon that it was his fate, but then again, it can be also taken through freewill. it would have been his fate to help and have trinity love him, but then again, he didn't have to go.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: Gaard
The Oracle told Trinity that she would fall in love, and the man that she loved would be the one. (Scene 36 )

on the ball. the oracle didn't 'lay plans' but knew what was true, refer to all the stuff morpheus said about this 'oracle' before he actually met her. she KNOWS, and knew he wasn't it. it was trinity that changed everything.. that is probably why she plays a crucial role in the next matrix movies.

OK. I think I get it. The Oracle was telling the truth when she told Neo that he wasn't the One....yet. But what she didn't tell him was that she knew that Trinity was going to change things and, in essence, make it so that Neo becomes the One.

IOW - At the time he talked to the Oracle, Neo wasn't the One. But the Oracle knew he would eventually become the One. Right?

 

[DoNotDisturb]

Originally posted by: RayH

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: maladroit

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb
ok.. he wasn't really the one. (NOT supposed to, wasn't destined to, according to the Oracle, and she's NEVER wrong)

HOWEVER, that lady told trinity that whoever she falls in loves with will BE the one.

SO, it changes the whole thing with Neo. After he dies , she admits she loves him. Since she falls in love with him, he BECOMES the one 'indirectly' and comes BACK to life.

The oracle only told him "what he needed to hear."

yes, that he wasn't going to be the one.

But then the Oracle also said "Your next life maybe, who knows?" which is true because he dies first before becoming the One.

then he wasn't 'the one' at that very moment, he had to go through trinity. its because of trinity.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Hubris
My take was that since it's a "virtual" world, you don't really die, but your brain believes it has and thus you do really die. But because Neo is Neo, he was able to overcome that and thus not die. He knows intimately that it is just a virtual, not real world, and so can decide what he wants to happen and what he doesn't.

This isn't quite right, the others know the Matrix is just a virtual world, yet they can die. The difference is, those rules do not apply to Neo, because he is the one. He more than knows the Matrix isn't real, he's completely free from any boundaries in it, and thus can die in it and not die in the real world.

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb
yes, morpheus also says that she is never wrong.

he wasn't the one..

what made him "the one" is because TRINITY made him so. The oracle told trinity that she would fall in love with a "dead" man (this in this case Neo) and whomever that may be will BE the one. THAT IS WHY he BECAME THE ONE. listen EVERYTHING they say in the movie. it makes sense, unlike all these 1s and 0s i'm reading on.

Neo wasn't the one when he talked to the oracle, in the sense that he didn't have the abilities of the one. The oracle siad he had the gift though, but was waiting for a rebirth. That rebirth was when he 'died' in the Matrix and came back. Trinity didn't have anything to do with it. I can't believe you trying to turn this film into some 'believe in the power of love' crap.

 

[DoNotDisturb]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Hubris
My take was that since it's a "virtual" world, you don't really die, but your brain believes it has and thus you do really die. But because Neo is Neo, he was able to overcome that and thus not die. He knows intimately that it is just a virtual, not real world, and so can decide what he wants to happen and what he doesn't.

This isn't quite right, the others know the Matrix is just a virtual world, yet they can die. The difference is, those rules do not apply to Neo, because he is the one. He more than knows the Matrix isn't real, he's completely free from any boundaries in it, and thus can die in it and not die in the real world.

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb
yes, morpheus also says that she is never wrong.

he wasn't the one..

what made him "the one" is because TRINITY made him so. The oracle told trinity that she would fall in love with a "dead" man (this in this case Neo) and whomever that may be will BE the one. THAT IS WHY he BECAME THE ONE. listen EVERYTHING they say in the movie. it makes sense, unlike all these 1s and 0s i'm reading on.

Neo wasn't the one when he talked to the oracle, in the since that he didn't have the abilities of the one. The oracle siad he had the gift though, but was waiting for a rebirth. That rebirth was when he 'died' in the Matrix and came back. Trinity didn't have anything to do with it. I can't believe you trying to turn this film into some 'believe in the power of love' crap.

uhh... i didn't pick trinity arbitrarily. it was from what ORACLE SAID TO TRINITY. didn't u hear what trinity said at the end?????

 

[slycat]

erm...

Whoa...

and

Dude...

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: slycat
OK..with all the talk about Matrix 2...i still didn't quite get the first movie...
all was well and cool until near the end when Neo supposedly and DID get shot and die in the
matrix correct?...just like the other pals before him...they were killed by the suits in the 'virtual'
world and from the explanation they also die in the real...

so are they just trying to say since he is the ONE...he can-not die?...coz he died ..but..erm..after the kiss...
awoke?...wtf is that bullcrap?...if thats the explanation...i'm sorry its pretty lame...

so tell me...am i not understanding something...coz the peeps i watched it with was also like...'er...ok...what just happened?'

the only way i can think to explain it is that somehow he brain was still working for a few seconds before he actually died and because she told him what the oracle told her, and how morphous told him that the oracle only tells you what you need to hear, he beleives he is the one and then right before he should ahve died he realizes that the world isnt real and that it is just a bunch of code. so the only way i can explain it was that even though his heart stopped his brain hadnt stopped functioning, and when he realized he was alive in the program his body made him alive in the real world "what the mind beleives the body does" or somethign like that morphous says after the failed jumoing thing.

 

[DoNotDisturb]

Originally posted by: slycat
erm...

Whoa...

and

Dude...

bah, i'll just let them go on about what they have to say, peace.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

NM since you editied out the name-calling.

 

[DoNotDisturb]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
NM since you editied ou the name-calling.

quite mad at the moment, stupid brother kind of pissed me off and 'tattle telled' on me for doing somethign i didn't even do. kind of popped out i guess.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
NM since you editied ou the name-calling.

quite mad at the moment, stupid brother kind of pissed me off and 'tattle telled' on me for doing somethign i didn't even do. kind of popped out i guess.

Yeah well, calm down. It's just movie and there is no one "right" answer. More than one correct interpretation is possible. Destiny and Free Will can and do exist simultaneously, which is one of the movie's other points. Neo was destined to be The One, but the Free Will of him and others was required for that to happen.

 

[BennyD]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

This isn't quite right, the others know the Matrix is just a virtual world, yet they can die. The difference is, those rules do not apply to Neo, because he is the one. He more than knows the Matrix isn't real, he's completely free from any boundaries in it, and thus can die in it and not die in the real world.

yes, but when the others get shot or something, they don't think "hmmm, i should be dead"
their brains still think (subconsiously) that it is real and therefor thats why they die.
neo on the other hand sees the matrix for what it really is, just a program.
you can see this when he discovers that he's the one, just before he kills agent smith, you see his view and everything is in code.

thats the difference that means that he can't die.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: RayH

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: maladroit

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb
ok.. he wasn't really the one. (NOT supposed to, wasn't destined to, according to the Oracle, and she's NEVER wrong)

HOWEVER, that lady told trinity that whoever she falls in loves with will BE the one.

SO, it changes the whole thing with Neo. After he dies , she admits she loves him. Since she falls in love with him, he BECOMES the one 'indirectly' and comes BACK to life.

The oracle only told him "what he needed to hear."

yes, that he wasn't going to be the one.

But then the Oracle also said "Your next life maybe, who knows?" which is true because he dies first before becoming the One.

then he wasn't 'the one' at that very moment, he had to go through trinity. its because of trinity.

NOW I see what you are saying. Never looked at it like that.........DAMMIT, I'm gonna have to go watch it again.

Good show, DoNotDisturb. We'll meet again..........BUWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[DoNotDisturb]

*dnd falls in with some soldiers*

i've got you woodchuck!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Trinity says something like 'you can't die, the oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one' right? Ok, I can see how you could gather from that that Trinity's love is a prerquisite to being the one. But it's not a cause and effect. He WOULD be the one out of circumstance, not as a result of. If being the one was dependent on Trinity loving him the whole rebirth the oracle mentions would be pointless, because Trinity loved him before he 'died.' She tried to tell him she was in love before she and Morpheus left the Matrix.

 

[DoNotDisturb]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Trinity says something like 'you can't die, the oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one' right? Ok, I can see how you could gather from that that Trinity's love is a prerquisite to being the one. But it's not a cause and effect. He WOULD be the one out of circumstance, not as a result of. If being the one was dependent on Trinity loving him the whole rebirth the oracle mentions would be pointless, because Trinity loved him before he 'died.' She tried to tell him she was in love before she and Morpheus left the Matrix.

the oracle said she would fall in love with a dead guy, not "can't die". from your statement, my assertions would be false.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Trinity says something like 'you can't die, the oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one' right? Ok, I can see how you could gather from that that Trinity's love is a prerquisite to being the one. But it's not a cause and effect. He WOULD be the one out of circumstance, not as a result of. If being the one was dependent on Trinity loving him the whole rebirth the oracle mentions would be pointless, because Trinity loved him before he 'died.' She tried to tell him she was in love before she and Morpheus left the Matrix.

That's exactly the way I perceived it.

Maybe we're both right, dnd? The W Bros are smart, I beleive they meant for the movie to induce this kind of thinking.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Trinity says something like 'you can't die, the oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one' right? Ok, I can see how you could gather from that that Trinity's love is a prerquisite to being the one. But it's not a cause and effect. He WOULD be the one out of circumstance, not as a result of. If being the one was dependent on Trinity loving him the whole rebirth the oracle mentions would be pointless, because Trinity loved him before he 'died.' She tried to tell him she was in love before she and Morpheus left the Matrix.

the oracle said she would fall in love with a dead guy, not "can't die". from your statement, my assertions would be false.

I beleive she said, "You can't be dead. blah, blah, blah." Does that clear anything up?

 

[blurredvision]

Some quotes from imdb.com.

________________

Oracle: OK, now I'm supposed to say, "Hmm, that's interesting, but..." then you say...
Neo: ..."but what?"
Oracle: But... you already know what I'm going to tell you.
Neo: I'm not The One.
Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.
Neo: What?
Oracle: Your next life, maybe. Who knows? That's the way these things go.

________________

Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

________________

Oracle: Do you know what that means?
[points to a banner]
Oracle: It means know thy self. I wanna tell you a little secret, being the one is just like being in love. No one needs to tell you you are in love, you just know it, through and through.

________________

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

________________

Oracle: You're cuter than I thought. I can see why she likes you.
Neo: Who?
Oracle: Not too bright, though.

________________

Just some interesting ones I found.

 

[DanFungus]

Originally posted by: Dudd
Damn, I have to watch the Matrix again. I've seen it before, but I can't for the life of me remember what you are talking about.

hahahah, same here!!

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: DoNotDisturb

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Trinity says something like 'you can't die, the oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one' right? Ok, I can see how you could gather from that that Trinity's love is a prerquisite to being the one. But it's not a cause and effect. He WOULD be the one out of circumstance, not as a result of. If being the one was dependent on Trinity loving him the whole rebirth the oracle mentions would be pointless, because Trinity loved him before he 'died.' She tried to tell him she was in love before she and Morpheus left the Matrix.

the oracle said she would fall in love with a dead guy, not "can't die". from your statement, my assertions would be false.

When did the Oracle say she would fall in love with a dead guy?

 

[ElFenix]

that movie rawked!

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: KingNothing

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Hubris My take was that since it's a "virtual" world, you don't really die, but your brain believes it has and thus you do really die. But because Neo is Neo, he was able to overcome that and thus not die. He knows intimately that it is just a virtual, not real world, and so can decide what he wants to happen and what he doesn't.

Should we expect the next two movies to take place in the real world and not the matrix. Neo, afterall, can't die in the matrix (if you apply your theory).

Have you watched the Reloaded trailers? Or read the Newsweek article that had all the plot stuff? It's definitely going to be based largely in the Matrix, although there will be some real world stuff as well. Third movie will be mostly real world, I think.

bingo

 

[ROTC1983]

Originally posted by: acidvoodoo

Originally posted by: Dudd
Damn, I have to watch the Matrix again. I've seen it before, but I can't for the life of me remember what you are talking about.

Heck, I am going to watch it again just because it was a cool movie